So combined supple based armor is now 1b per piece

[Esssch]

NO! The original point we were discussing was that bot drop rates, Supple in particular since is the most used leadbot, are a huge issue along with non customizable armors and the absolute requirement that in order to keep the weapons out of OE you must *OWN* the AI Armor that is made with the AI leadbots, or a solution to rectify the need which everyone is discussing here. NOT your attempt to sound educated, knowledgeable or understanding of the topics at hand. It's pretty clear you don't have a clue so please move on yourself and discuss something you're better versed in. As vanilla stated, in today's endgame PvP, or PvM OD world of AO, you're suggestions are not feasible in any way shape or form and if that's all you have to bring to the discussion I respectfully ask that you withdraw from it, especially if you're bored. We'd all appreciate it.

The original point gets muddled in 9 pages. Welcome to the forums, you must be new here. And thank you for finally taking the advice I gave you on page 8! Finally we're making progress!

So I'm curious how much a level 215 keeper and someone that isn't even proud enough of their character to claim who they are really know about Supple armor or endgame PvM or PvP, or even gearing to their maximum potential. In both PvP and PvM you don't need a full set of combined.

First, I'm glad you think you have so many supportive friends. But, there is no reason to be snarky. If you want snarky, I'll show you snarky, but that just means this thread gets nerfed and I get infracted.

Um supple on a MP? What a sad waste of such a great armor to use it on Pet class like an MP.. Oh WAIT a tick... Could that be because you couldnt manage to get the IP skills WITHOUT IT??!!??

No, I could. I simply wanted to lower my burst recharge time. Realized how silly that was, since I'd need the nano skills more if rebalance ever comes out, and I could get close to a billion per piece, so I decided to sell it instead of keeping it. You could say my ACDC is a waste on an MP too, but my supportive friends and org let me have it anyway.

Yeah, like we've all been saying. You need the armor to get your weapon of choice on, and you can't JUST get it on, and hand back the supple to one of your many friends, (who if you did have would have told you by now that you're theory is lacking substance). This so called valid theory then means that you go so severely OE that you just wasted mega time twinking it on, because the weapon, (other than any special modifiers), is as useful as the gimp one you just took OFF as far as damage is concerned.

Oh, now I don't have friends. Man, you're just a fount of valid arguments! Also, no, I can self my Lusts, cause I'm actually 220. It's amazing what those last few levels worth of IP make possible!

The simple fact here is you are not going to find the necessary modifiers to keep your weapons special attacks OUT o f OE with ANYTHING but Supple Armor. There is no Hud that is going to massively help, no uber rings or buffs for a number classes/professions that will do what Supple does for your weapon. Other things like nano skills, speeds, and even tradeskills, yes, but not weapon skills to teh degree you need them to remain out of OE.

Here's one. Here's another. One more, though profession locked.

That makes absolutely no sense! Unless you're a straight PvMer and really just wanted the modifiers the weapon offers you. Then I suppose that is fine and works out. That's not really what we are discussing here.

Well, since you're so insistent we stick to the original topic, the topic was originally just the price. Go ahead and read the first post again, it mentions none of this.

As for the rest of your post, lol at a 215 keeper trying to tell me I don't understand endgame. You can see my equip in my signature. And ooooh 90 raids! I'm so impressed. Should I link to where Vhab specifically stated that droprates weren't changed? Droprates are the same as always. I haven't said one way or the other whether I believe they are too high or too low. You're simply putting words into my mouth. Personally, I think combined should be taken out of the game entirely. You guys don't know how good you have it.

To pvp at a high level, several pieces AI armor is the requirement for every single profession.

But they're saying you need full Supple, not several pieces.

[Cariadast]

The original point gets muddled in 9 pages. Welcome to the forums, you must be new here. And thank you for finally taking the advice I gave you on page 8! Finally we're making progress!

So I'm curious how much a level 215 keeper and someone that isn't even proud enough of their character to claim who they are really know about Supple armor or endgame PvM or PvP, or even gearing to their maximum potential. In both PvP and PvM you don't need a full set of combined.



No, I could. I simply wanted to lower my burst recharge time. Realized how silly that was, since I'd need the nano skills more if rebalance ever comes out, and I could get close to a billion per piece, so I decided to sell it instead of keeping it. You could say my ACDC is a waste on an MP too, but my supportive friends and org let me have it anyway.



Oh, now I don't have friends. Man, you're just a fount of valid arguments! Also, no, I can self my Lusts, cause I'm actually 220. It's amazing what those last few levels worth of IP make possible!



Here's one. Here's another. One more, though profession locked.



Well, since you're so insistent we stick to the original topic, the topic was originally just the price. Go ahead and read the first post again, it mentions none of this.

As for the rest of your post, lol at a 215 keeper trying to tell me I don't understand endgame. You can see my equip in my signature. And ooooh 90 raids! I'm so impressed. Should I link to where Vhab specifically stated that droprates weren't changed? Droprates are the same as always. I haven't said one way or the other whether I believe they are too high or too low. You're simply putting words into my mouth. Personally, I think combined should be taken out of the game entirely. You guys don't know how good you have it.



But they're saying you need full Supple, not several pieces.

You just dont get it...

[fakiiri]

Bet people would have done creds or farmed 1 supple with all the time spent whining here on forums.

[Raggy]

Bet people would have done creds or farmed 1 supple with all the time spent whining here on forums.

And those of us with 2 monitors?

[Esssch]

And those of us with 2 monitors?

Farmed supple or creds and porn.

[Psikie]

You actually have to HAVE it to play this game to the fullest.

Obviously a subject you don't understand.

If I understand this correctly, you can't play AO to the "fullest" without supple bots??? Interesting I suppose.

NO! The original point we were discussing was that bot drop rates, Supple in particular since is the most used leadbot,

By your own numbers an absolute impossibility if it is indeed the "most rare" bot.

Um supple on a MP? What a sad waste of such a great armor to use it on Pet class like an MP.. Oh WAIT a tick... Could that be because you couldnt manage to get the IP skills WITHOUT IT??!!??

Actually a 220 MP with betas can actually swap Tigress and Zset with no ai armor at all. So while you call it a waste for an MP...your other posts say it's "absolutely" required to play AO to the fullest.

Yeah, like we've all been saying. You need the armor to get your weapon of choice on, and you can't JUST get it on, and hand back the supple to one of your many friends,

Kind of like uhm..getting a wrangle perhaps?

Further more, Im not sure how you assume Nilla, I or anyone here posting is being lazy, (except of course Lazy himself), when we all have stated, listed, or charted out the number of raids we have done in an effort to farm these bots ourselves.

I am beginning to wonder if you understand endgame or just decided to jump in on the end of this thread and have your opinion present, AGAIN on something you clearly have no clue in regards.

I'd like to see it not get closed down or ignored as there are some seriously valid points made by other's here.

Now here is the coup de gras...You say supple is too rare, for your tastes. I would counter with an equally selfish statement that TNH belts and BoCs don't drop enough. Because as you know they are "required" for endgame twinking. Don't you know anything?

[Cariadast]

If I understand this correctly, you can't play AO to the "fullest" without supple bots??? Interesting I suppose.


Now here is the coup de gras...You say supple is too rare, for your tastes. I would counter with an equally selfish statement that TNH belts and BoCs don't drop enough. Because as you know they are "required" for endgame twinking. Don't you know anything?

Ummm, You've totally misunderstood most of what I said I THINK. Go back and read from the start and you'll see what I'm saying and that if you can get a Peh'wer on a crat without the supple.. then you're my new God. BUT.. be prepared to prove it! They are needed for end game. Not sure what you're trying to prove here but you sound snappy

But I will tell you that Ive personally seen MORE TNH belts and BOCS drop in farming and in raids Ive been present for than I have Supple Bots I've attempted to farm solo OR with org just since the merge... so um, yeah.. yeah... Dont you know anything? ;P

[Elithas]

Thread TLDR....

add a chance of drop from S13/28/35... 25% chance of a random bot. Don't touch ground/ship raids, leave them 10% or w/e.

[Ciex]

My suggestion: Artillery Commander (...)

It takes 3 competent teams to kill it and bring 12 ql 240+ viralbots (2 supples on average) on 90 minutes (?) timer. If there are no 18 competent people in this game who want viralbots, it means that people just dont want it or dont mind to pay the price, whatever it is.

My hint is: better raid bot. If i remember correctly dedicated s42 bot on rk2 made it run almost everyday. The difference between this one and current bot (at last for omni side) was the fact you could win something as a casual gamer, while today you just cant. It took me 1,5 year to get my first acdc on hellcom, i did not bid any VB on my way.

BTW, the only real currency AO and most likely other mmorpgs have is time

[McKnuckleSamwich]

BTW, the only real currency AO and most likely other mmorpgs have is time

8 years of gaming and not 1 single ACDC on any of my toons.

My problem was every time I got close to winning, the bot changed systems. This happened exactly 3 times.

Well, that, and the fact that I live in Brisbane now and good effin luck ever being online when a S42 raid is going.

[Ahndracorvid]

My hint is: better raid bot. If i remember correctly dedicated s42 bot on rk2 made it run almost everyday. The difference between this one and current bot (at last for omni side) was the fact you could win something as a casual gamer, while today you just cant. It took me 1,5 year to get my first acdc on hellcom, i did not bid any VB on my way.

That bot seems to have suffered for 2 reasons: a lack of active RLs, and a lack of reason to use it since there seem to be a number of factional bots who already serve the same purpose. You're right about point inflation being horrendous there, though.

The other problem I remember Sector42 having with running raids just after the merge was trying not to clash with another raid group.

[Ciex]

That bot seems to have suffered for 2 reasons: a lack of active RLs

Just because people cant organize raid FC shouldnt bring any new sources of items. If people couldnt raid pande bocs still shouldnt drop out of inf hecklers.

The other problem I remember Sector42 having with running raids just after the merge was trying not to clash with another raid group (...) and a lack of reason to use it since there seem to be a number of factional bots who already serve the same purpose

Raid conflict is not an issue anymore. Not to mention fact that non - dedicated s42 bots may serve same purpose in theory but in reality it just doesnt work. Non - dedicated bots work demotivational. On dedicated s42 bot point inflation is way lower so its in fact worth joining for pure profit. From what i remember on sector42 i could grab 2nd sort viralbots (endurings etc.) usually for 1 point while every raid gave 3 points (0,3 raid). On non - dedicated bot those are equal to 3-5 complete raids so its not even worth doing it for profit. Thats why those raids happen once or twice at max per week.

Option to trade bots for different kinds would be really lovely, it should be just 2 bots of any kind for 1 desired bot to make it fair.

[JustinSane4]

Just because people cant organize raid FC shouldnt bring any new sources of items. If people couldnt raid pande bocs still shouldnt drop out of inf hecklers.

This seems a rather poor comparison. I'm not saying random aliens in S42 should drop supple bots, and I'm not suggesting FC add a new source for them. Rather, the opposite. Adding a guaranteed supple drop to the Artillery Commander's loot table changes the incentive structure to increase the frequency of AO's most prominent endgame raid.

When the game population is too weak or disorganized to regularly complete difficult content that used to be routinely raided, that's bad optics. Changing the incentives to make sure S42 raids run and observant based armors are a bit more obtainable for newish players just seems good for the health of the game to me.

Additional question: If this suggestion is implemented, who is harmed? It would case a bit of deflation in the value of supple armors, but the players who have supple armor now are also likely those most able to profit from an increase in expected value from an S42 raid.

[Psikie]

As long as I've been playing AO, over time eventually everything becomes available to the common player. Before long ai bots will become easier to aquire for all. Either better drop rate or some form of quest/mission similar to getting souls from the prisoner daily mission.

[cybertron]

That bot seems to have suffered for 2 reasons: a lack of active RLs, and a lack of reason to use it since there seem to be a number of factional bots who already serve the same purpose. You're right about point inflation being horrendous there, though.

The other problem I remember Sector42 having with running raids just after the merge was trying not to clash with another raid group.

From what i was told, the sector42 bot from rk2 attempted to start running raids post-merge but was griefed several times(i don't know by whom) so RLs gave up on it

[aramsunat]

Funny to see 10 pages of boo hoo "make the game simpler pls". No.. no and no.. acquiring items made easy wont help the game, it will ruin the experience. You remember, farming stuff is also gameplay right? You fill the thrill of phatz finally dropping, that enables your spoon-fed lubchild to achieve god-status no? Easy items will make easy toons and players get bored of the game much quicker.

As for the prices; the main problem is the lack of supply. Need more players. FC must attract (new engine, marketing) and keep (NPE and in my opinion NPE extended, making the game easier for starters up to lvl 100) players. Keeping new players is key, I think most just quit once they get out of the starter area finding themselves being absolutely useless even in such a gimp place as the subway. I could suggest making LE froob. It provides armor that works, weaponry that works, yet their high requirement will prevent froobs from abusing them like expansion players do. But seriously, the froob experience is horrible with froob weapons and without enough people to team with. I remember my froob times we could progress in 3 ways: having an experienced, twinked-the-hell-out froob in team, having expansion player(s) in team and having sheer numbers.

Also froobs shouldnt be separated from expansion players that much. I am glad to see FC finally starting to address this issue (xp gains getting more balanced)

Get new froobs => get new subscribers => get new farmers => get new bots = lower prices

[Elithas]

Funny to see 10 pages of boo hoo "make the game simpler pls". No.. no and no.. acquiring items made easy wont help the game, it will ruin the experience. You remember, farming stuff is also gameplay right? You fill the thrill of phatz finally dropping, that enables your spoon-fed lubchild to achieve god-status no? Easy items will make easy toons and players get bored of the game much quicker.

As for the prices; the main problem is the lack of supply. Need more players. FC must attract (new engine, marketing) and keep (NPE and in my opinion NPE extended, making the game easier for starters up to lvl 100) players. Keeping new players is key, I think most just quit once they get out of the starter area finding themselves being absolutely useless even in such a gimp place as the subway. I could suggest making LE froob. It provides armor that works, weaponry that works, yet their high requirement will prevent froobs from abusing them like expansion players do. But seriously, the froob experience is horrible with froob weapons and without enough people to team with. I remember my froob times we could progress in 3 ways: having an experienced, twinked-the-hell-out froob in team, having expansion player(s) in team and having sheer numbers.

Also froobs shouldnt be separated from expansion players that much. I am glad to see FC finally starting to address this issue (xp gains getting more balanced)

Get new froobs => get new subscribers => get new farmers => get new bots = lower prices

How will adding more players change the supply and demand ratio that currently exists? You would have to vastly increase the endgame playerbase while waiting months if not years for the credit amounts to be stabilized in my opinion. I doubt it will happen.

What the AI armor grind needs is a way to bridge the gap between newer endgame players and players who have had 5-10+ years to amass fortunes... and the way to do that is content accessibility, or a devaluing of credits. I'd call ground raids easily accessible, ship raids and S10 moderately accessible, and S42 hardly accessible, although, this can and probably will change. So we aren't too bad off in terms of content accessibility.

If content accessibility is not an issue, and item accesibility still is, then if you wish to make an item more accessible, the way to do it is to add or modify the content or droprates... or add or modify the items.

To summarize, more new players will not alleviate the lack of accessibility. More returning players may alleviate it to some extent. The only feasible change is to modify something on the game end.

Of course, I doubt we'll ever see the broad reaching kind of overhauls it would take, and who knows if what we got at the end of it would still be AO. So I'll vote for the lazy option of increasing droprates or adding drops to other places. It's less time consuming.

[Esssch]

The problem is that all the carebears whined about AXP not being fast enough, so FC kept adding in better and better ways to get it. So now, you do some AI dailies, maybe some Arid, and bam you're AI30. Before, city raids were the only way to get AXP, which means more city generals, more teams going onto ships, etc. Now city raids are either only for lowbies or just for farming creds (or invaders killed)

[McKnuckleSamwich]

The problem is that all the carebears whined about AXP not being fast enough, so FC kept adding in better and better ways to get it. So now, you do some AI dailies, maybe some Arid, and bam you're AI30. Before, city raids were the only way to get AXP, which means more city generals, more teams going onto ships, etc. Now city raids are either only for lowbies or just for farming creds (or invaders killed)

finally something QFT worthy.

This... some truth. I fully agree.

Back in the old days, the only way to ding AI 30 was by attending Sector raids, or doing AI raids. And for most people, by the time you capped your AXP you had a fairly decent bot collection or AI armour collection due to the sheer number of attempts.

The only reason AI armour is in such high demand now is that the number of attempts of real raids (ground and ship) is so few compared to the number of people dinging AI 30.

When I dinged AI 30 on my MA back in 2008 or whatever, I already had 6 pieces of 300 CC and it was just a matter of farming the last chunk of AXP from half 29 to 30, and even in that time, I put together a few pieces of CM for my keeper.

Yes, the problem is perception. If you ding AI 30 with 1k AI kills, no, you won't have a 300 CSS/CC suit yet. If you ding AI 30 with 60k kills, you might be close.

[Mekh]

The problem is that all the carebears whined about AXP not being fast enough, so FC kept adding in better and better ways to get it. So now, you do some AI dailies, maybe some Arid, and bam you're AI30. Before, city raids were the only way to get AXP, which means more city generals, more teams going onto ships, etc. Now city raids are either only for lowbies or just for farming creds (or invaders killed)

This... There used to be a LOT more raids which would drop bots.