MA Balance

[solcv2]

Incorrect. A number of perks have already been changed to match the damage type of equipped weapons and therefore are affected by damage type changing nanos/perks/equipment.

I didnt think this worked when you were changing your damage type with a nano, such as stellar harmony, as the perk checks weapon dmg type, and not dmg type override.

Mark

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I can relate with what you're saying.

I recently (like last week) went PVM dedicated on my MA again.

I feel like MA takes a big hit to tanking/survival capability in order to equip gear necessary to hold agg.



What cannot be argued though, is that MA's in PVP setup's are at a significant disadvantage:

1. They cannot heal effectively enough to be called support
2. They cannot DPS effectively enough to be called DPS
3. They cannot offtank effectively enough to be called a suitable offtank (assumed CC setup)


Paired with general weakness of MA's in teams:

They do not offer enough team enabling buffing to be really useful (MoP/Ri are only real benefits)

And, in general, all their profession specific debuffs are invisible: FOL debuff is invisible, for 30s/2 minutes they can do some decent init debuffs, but people don't see those debuffs so they don't see that MA's are doing anything dmg mitigation wise.

This makes me think that MA's could really use visible debuffs, and maybe the combined MA attack needs an offensive proc attached to it:

Crippling blow: duration 4s, -50 crit resist 5% offensive proc

[Paavalniem1]

Unfortunately, the perks have to do a damage type. All your high end fist dmg buffs add melee+ aswell as <dmgtype>+, so perks are then effected by tit.

As far as I know, apart from some specific items (arul sabas, dmg rings) - the rest (alb bracer etc) add to all dmg types.

There isnt the mechanic ingame at the moment to 'choose' a dmg type for perk actions - and IMO melee is the best that there is to suit everyone.

Mark

You are wrong!

Lots of perks do change dmg type with the alb devices. For example all 1he/1hb/pistol perk dmg types can be changed. Also all the champion line perk damage types can be changed. This allows docs to go poison to match malp and DoT dmg or enfs to go chem/fire for sharp obj items but MAs can't currently make perks/AS/SA same damage type.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

You are wrong!

Lots of perks do change dmg type with the alb devices. For example all 1he/1hb/pistol perk dmg types can be changed. Also all the champion line perk damage types can be changed. This allows docs to go poison to match malp and DoT dmg or enfs to go chem/fire for sharp obj items but MAs can't currently make perks/AS/SA same damage type.

I'll look into this.

But let me get it straight:

Alb dmg generation device DOES change perk dmg type (regardless of prof) [except for MA???????]

enforcer "element" nanos change perk dmg type

But MA fist damage change doesn't change perk dmg type?


Or is it just that [MA] perks themselves never change dmg type <-- this is my observation

But I can't say I've tried to change them using an alb dmg generation device - but I don't think there's a way to change them to fire...

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=244216

Tears do rad dmg, so you'd have to use a alb dmg generator to use that dmg type

and alb arrows do cold dmg but that would be a waste of effort trying to line up damage for those.

[Wakizaka]

But let me get it straight:

Alb dmg generation device DOES change perk dmg type (regardless of prof) [except for MA???????]

enforcer "element" nanos change perk dmg type

But MA fist damage change doesn't change perk dmg type?


Or is it just that [MA] perks themselves never change dmg type <-- this is my observation

It's the perk actions themselves. Only some have been set to take into consideration the damage type being used. I thought it was just the AI perk lines, didn't notice the SL + Prof specific lines being changed.

[Paavalniem1]

I'll look into this.

But let me get it straight:

Alb dmg generation device DOES change perk dmg type (regardless of prof) [except for MA???????]

enforcer "element" nanos change perk dmg type

But MA fist damage change doesn't change perk dmg type?


Or is it just that [MA] perks themselves never change dmg type <-- this is my observation

But I can't say I've tried to change them using an alb dmg generation device - but I don't think there's a way to change them to fire...

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?id=244216

Tears do rad dmg, so you'd have to use a alb dmg generator to use that dmg type

and alb arrows do cold dmg but that would be a waste of effort trying to line up damage for those.

Anything that does "damage type override to XXX" Does affect pistol/1hb/1he/AI perks... Both alb devices and MA fist nanos work the same way. Sadly none of them change MA SL perk dmg so we can't even make our swaps the same dmg type with perks.

If our perks worked like pistol/1he/1hb perks, we could go cold damage and make all perks, SA, AS and alb arrows match. Or just go any dmg type to make bow do same damage type as everything else (normally projectile). You can do chem, rad, fire, cold and poison with the alb devices btw.

The problem is indeed with our perks not working like pistol/1hb/1he ones which is unfair!

[Rockleee]

Sorry for bad english but i hope you understand me.

The fact that ma needs to spend so much ip for other specials to be effective in pvp shows how underbuffed he is. Think about a ma who just uses his fists and perks in PvP. That is much to weak compared with any other professions ingame. You are even not able to perk most Professions without loosing to much evades/def.
Ok lets say sooner or later you find someone to perk: all your perks will be on recharge and even when they are ready they are to weak and deal like no dmg. And yeah your fists crit, but you have no real AR and you dont even hit 30 hit / min. Shades enfos (advy is only played ranged) have high dmg perks nice specials without swap and are dual whielded with capped inits.

Now to changes From 28th February 2014:

Enforcers, Keepers and Shades will get a root removal nano.
Why not also the ma? Because we have Upon a wave of summer?( This is an item that checks the enemys defensive while the remove nano doesnt)

Deflect ?
Why? making it more impossible for any profession to kill cocoon profs and DOCTORS? in duels the will be unbeatable. No profession will be able to kill them anymore.

Enforcer one more stun?
Dont they already have enough? arent then already to strong ?

I wait for the day when the ma gets a real ma buff a real brawl buff a real dimach buff a and so on. hope that the perks will get a bit more love at recharge and dmg ( maybe also on check)
The next point are the specials:
Delerium will give you a nice off buff. but if you can land it you are already able to perk your enemy so where is the sense? i really dont understand the sense if the enemy is not a pet profession. it really needs a lower def check.
every ma critiziesed.... Its like impossible to get a ql 300 ma specials

Honestly if you go pure pve its nice to play ma and you make nice dmg, but any prof should be able to play also in pvp, and honestly ma isnt without much luck on landing hits or something. You cant compare it with a 220 trox enfo who just mr stun and kill with high dmg perks and specials.
There are so much things in my opinion that should be changed or just take out ma of AO, but like that it doesnt really make sense or fun anymore. I played ma really long in pve and pvp and i would like to help to balance. So please @ FC you can also write private messages and i will answer any questions to ma for pvp pve and gameplay and so on

[borriss]

About the low-hp setups, they pretty much don't exist anymore... Having DB / alb bracer and all those other items such as the shoulders and token boards and ACDC etc coupled with Alpha's you'll still be at 14k + HP at any time.... While duelling agents / Soldiers it does help to remove the token board at least, but other than that I'd say no one is running around on a 9k hp MA anymore.... If they are that's not optimal, as stated previously..

To me - it is alright that you distinguish between pvp and pvm setups... But I don't like the fact that you actually can't go dual tonfa's unless you IP reset... This to me is the biggest detriment. Reperking 10+ perks and equipping different armor / symbs should be enough imo.

Perhaps lower the Dual Wield req's on the Tonfa's or give MA more support for mutliple melee wielding. Perhaps add to a perk line + give us a buff.. Should suffice. The req is not really that high, but the fact is that as a PvP MA, you really can't afford to sink too much IP into it...

You need:
- Bow spc atck
- Sharp Objects (Maxed)
- Bow
- Aimed Shot (Maxed)
- Fast attack for Flurry of Blows
- Somewhat perception (so you can at least swap on 275 VE)
- Piercing (maxed)
- Sneak attack (maxed)
- Several nano skills maxed
- Also having 3 main profession abilities (Martial Arts, Brawl and Dimach) - Maxed


What this leads to is - you have a 220 MA with 0 IP in Nano pool, 0 IP in Body dev, 0 IP in nano initiative and skipping IP ANYWHERE it's not necessary. It definitely doesn't leave room for Multiple Melee And this, is the big issue in my eyes. The fact that we have to IP reset stuff that's considered vital for PvP in order to get our unique triple attack ability. We are already cutting things we'd like to otherwise max (Nano pool, nano inits etc...)


If MA has the right team and are fighting low AC mobs I still think MA (if in an absolute pvm specc) should be at least top3.... Depending on a few things maybe higher?

Edit: MA in PvM can't go full def btw, due to the nature of our MA attack weapon - so if you wanna PvM and push dmg prepare to be 25% or so to ensure 1/1 on your fists.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I confirm all the above to be true.

I don't know about where we stand on DPM, in a raid, MA's can pull out reasonable numbers. When I'm soloing, I can do 350k DPM in Avalon at the tower parts mobs.

Probably might be able to do close to 375k in a raid with sold/keeper in team.

My feeling is that anything about 300k is going to be sufficient for what people consider DPS prof. Some profs are doing a fair bit more though. shades can do 400+k quite easily, NT's similar.

Engies can roast mobs as fast or faster than MA generally in any low AC setting, same with crats.

So I think MA's are in the top 5 in general for low AC mobs.

We're middle of the pack for high AC mobs. Everyone suffers on high AC mobs, profs with capping specials tend to pull out slightly more DPS than they do on Rk: soldiers, fixers, advy, shade, agent start to gain more, while profs that have large damage range on perks and regulars start to fade back (MA, shade, NT) while profs that have access to many procs and dot procs start to go up relatively (Shade, agent, trader, keeper).

[Dollcet]

I came back after a good two years break and im baffled how FC carelessly stealthnerfs MA,s in PvM. Iirc the Disharmonyproc contributed about five K dmg aminute and the Heal used to be 300ish before . unless my memory betrays me MA have lost 1/3 of the Heal. The MBS on Tonfa is a old Issue , see posts and a Thread i opend Years back ....... Shame on you FC .

[Cratertina]

I like playing MA, just recently got alphas on Ai27, having a blast... Its my 13th 220 and honestly more fun than most other professions.

That being said.... It is underwhelmingly lacking power, when compared to shade in pvm... But i dont play shade, its to OP, makes soloing booring.

MA when you win it feels good.

So balance of fun is nice... Now what MA needs is disharmony buff, majorly so. Or give it similar procs, shades, keepers, agents enjoy.

But even as is, its fun. But do not measure against other professions. You will be disapointed.

[Rockdizzle]

I came back after a good two years break and im baffled how FC carelessly stealthnerfs MA,s in PvM. Iirc the Disharmonyproc contributed about five K dmg aminute and the Heal used to be 300ish before . unless my memory betrays me MA have lost 1/3 of the Heal. The MBS on Tonfa is a old Issue , see posts and a Thread i opend Years back ....... Shame on you FC .

Healing for MAs went up, if you just mean't the disharmony heal proc than ya MAs lost 12 hp per proc until you factor in heal eff.

The disharmony changed sucked, the fact that they didn't think to change the dmg type from Melee to Nano(only Agents can buff nano dmg) baffles me.
Than you got that promise from years ago about MAs getting a dmg perk in Disharmony to replace the lost dmg from the procs.

Would be nice to see something done with Disharmony.

[Cratertina]

Healing part is insignificant.

It should be procing damage, like 1500 per proc, 25%.

And return 10% heal.

Or strap in MA equivalent of shade piercing line. 7 consequtive dd events, one after other gaining power if executed properly and not just meshed.

30s recharge, m m m:-P

[Dollcet]

Healing part is insignificant.

It should be procing damage, like 1500 per proc, 25%.

And return 10% heal.

Or strap in MA equivalent of shade piercing line. 7 consequtive dd events, one after other gaining power if executed properly and not just meshed.

30s recharge, m m m:-P

Healing isnt a Issue anymore at Endgame since MoK/TMoK got the Requirment lowered , might still be an Issue for Leveling Toons .

Dmgwise i do like the Idea of Damageperks more than another Proc , a few more Buttons to click are allways Fun.
The Devs could rescale the allready existing Damageperks and place 2 new ones into Disharmony . Would be neat if one of them would apply a moderate Snare/AC-Debuff like -450 RS/-1800 AC.

[Cratertina]

Maybe rescale dd perks based On MA skill, kinda like shade perks do damage, depending on piercing skill. Gif MA top damage after 3000MA skill, start scaling at 2000. 3000 Ma skill should do some massive damage, considering sacrifices required.

[Dollcet]

Maybe rescale dd perks based On MA skill, kinda like shade perks do damage, depending on piercing skill. Gif MA top damage after 3000MA skill, start scaling at 2000. 3000 Ma skill should do some massive damage, considering sacrifices required.

Hmm interesting ...we gotta chat about that the next Time i catch you Ingame .

On second guess : 3k is only reachable in the Moonmist uptime , not very practical for solo , needs to be a bit lower or MBfags whos MB includes a Trader would have more Benefit than legit MA.

[Cratertina]

:P Yea looking for youz! Mr ol Guru of damage.

In any case, nothing would be unbalanced if MA's get more damage than shades.

Shades right now are OP not because of damage... but because they combine tankiness and second to none damage. MA has nowhere near same tanking ability.

Maybe MA is just fine and problem are shades. But nothing is being done to shades so it'd be nice if MA professional arranged some kind of buff to MA.

MA is rewarding to play, maybe thats good FPM Fun per minute we dont need DPM.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

what MA professional?

[Dollcet]

:P Yea looking for youz! Mr ol Guru of damage.

In any case, nothing would be unbalanced if MA's get more damage than shades.

Shades right now are OP not because of damage... but because they combine tankiness and second to none damage. MA has nowhere near same tanking ability.

Maybe MA is just fine and problem are shades. But nothing is being done to shades so it'd be nice if MA professional arranged some kind of buff to MA.

MA is rewarding to play, maybe thats good FPM Fun per minute we dont need DPM.

In regards of Shades ...i havent played on in Ages but this are my guesses :

https://aoitems.com/item/224177/degeneration-of-haste/ <<< 100% Trigger ...WTF !

This and the taking away of all or allmost all "not Shade" Flags .........

Perks being boosted in DMG seemingly by the add-Dmg they drain from Opponents ... does this mean the lifedraining Perks get a indirect Boost to Heals because they hit higher or do they Heal for a set Amount ?
------------------------------

https://aoitems.com/item/273390/sneaking-health-drain/

-Nanocost too low compared to any other Endgame Heal
-Seems to "stack" if you use it on mutiple adds
-Since it Damages the Enemy Shades can push DD with it even if they dont have Aggro


We dont have a MA-Professional right now , and FC wont ever nerf Shades because too many People rolled them after XAN , too mayn potentially upset Customers . Half of the MA ever rolled in the Game never made it past TL5 and pretty few declared it their TL7 Main , we simply dont have a very big Lobby .

[Cratertina]

All your assumptions are correct. Add damage to perks, cheap heals 100% ubt proc...

Perk megabuff. Shades could get nerfed hard and it wouldnt make them not OP.

Its kinda like crat used to be.. Allmighty and epic DD.

Shade 100k dpm nerf would balance it to MA.

Ah no MA prof... Explains it.