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Thread: MA Balance

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Why? I thought fists were still your primary weapon anyway?
    No actually.

    Consider:

    Fist as a PRIMARY weapon means that you are not triple wielding - in this case, you're absolutely correct.

    BUT, in the case that an MA is using Kuma Tonfa (I have to assume that's what we are talking about), then here is how it works (generally):

    three attack bars:

    2 for kuma's
    1 for combined MA attack

    Now, you have a valid question: isn't the combined MA still the primary weapon?

    Here is the answer for you:

    In continuous fighting, you should - if your inits are good enough, be 1/1 with all weapons, which means a total of 45 attacks/minute.

    Broken down, that's 30 attacks for kuma tonfa, and 15 for combined MA

    Kuma tonfa's, fully buffed and at MBS are hitting for about 5k, which can go up to about 6k with add damage.

    Combined MA fully buffed with endgame armour will hit for about 9k or 10k with a bit of extra add dmg

    This means that kuma tonfas are on PAR with combined MA (for comparative purposes kuma dmg = 5000*30 hits = 150000/min and combined MA is 9500*15 hits = 142500/min) - close enough, roughly that they are equal.

    But, the difference comes from fast attack. With 2x kuma tonfa equipped, it's a safe assumption that the MA doesn't have Bow/piercing IP'd, in which case they'd have more likely spent the IP in fast attack.

    At capped fast attack, you get an extra 10 hits per minute with the kuma tonfas:

    5000*10=50000 dmg/min

    Now, while the tonfa and MA from proportional numbers of attacks per minute were reasonably close, with the fast attack included, the contribution from kuma tonfas is significantly more:

    200000 dmg/min (from tonfa) vs 142500 dmg/min (from combined MA)

    *Note: numbers are rough estimates only, but should serve to illustrate the difference. I've assumed critical rate is 100%.

  2. #42
    So even with those numbers if I understand correctly, 2 Kuma's + MA is still better than MA alone or overall better than any 2 other Xan weapons combined because you also get MA even with lower MBS on Kuma correct?
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    So even with those numbers if I understand correctly, 2 Kuma's + MA is still better than MA alone or overall better than any 2 other Xan weapons combined because you also get MA even with lower MBS on Kuma correct?
    Answer this: do you think kuma tonfas keeping the same MBS as shen sticks instead of the 2750 of all other xan weapons was a decision made for the sake of balance or a simple copy/paste oversight?

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    So even with those numbers if I understand correctly, 2 Kuma's + MA is still better than MA alone or overall better than any 2 other Xan weapons combined because you also get MA even with lower MBS on Kuma correct?
    2 tonfas+MA combined is significantly better than MA alone, and it's obviously better than 2x shen sticks +combined MA

    For MA users, there is no question that having combined MA will greatly outperform any other two xan weapons regardless of the MBS.

    Your comment regarding the MBS is misleading and draws us away from the main point.

    The MBS of the kuma tonfa is lower than that of other xan weapons, there is no reason for this.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    Answer this: do you think kuma tonfas keeping the same MBS as shen sticks instead of the 2750 of all other xan weapons was a decision made for the sake of balance or a simple copy/paste oversight?
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Your comment regarding the MBS is misleading and draws us away from the main point.

    The MBS of the kuma tonfa is lower than that of other xan weapons, there is no reason for this.
    I would like to think it was for balance sake. Could it have been an oversight? Absolutely, but given the numbers above I would suggest it could be OP otherwise.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

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  6. #46
    I don't know how much more damage it would add, but I can't think that it would be much.

  7. #47
    If I remember right, MA attack rating to damage multiplier is worth about 20% in that range, so changing the MBS would increase kuma tonfa damage by roughly 23-37(38).

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Scum View Post
    If I remember right, MA attack rating to damage multiplier is worth about 20% in that range, so changing the MBS would increase kuma tonfa damage by roughly 23-37(38).
    Seems kinda lowish...even with it x2. Roughly 30pts more dmg per swing?

    I was guessing around 30% for 45 xtra per swing x2.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  9. #49
    couldn't be.

    whats the formula for MBS multipliers again?

    1+(MBS-1000)/40 *damage range or something?

  10. #50
    What can your MA skill hit with perks/procs/buffs? I'm not a math major but an xtra 150 MBS seems like it would do wonders at even 30ish pts per swing not counting crits. Equivalent to 2 xtra DD rings or lowbie aruls easy. Or am I looking at those numbers wrong?
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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    My Story

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    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  11. #51
    I have 2935 with all alphas (not using that IS LW atm) nor syndicate brain with MM up and the 75 skill hud in.

    2715 without moonmist.

    an extra 30 points per hit on normal hits/fast attack works out to:

    30*30+10*30= 1200 damage/minute which is negligible

  12. #52
    Still i'de want those extra +30, just to be consistent with mbs of the rest of the xan weapons if anything
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    Still i'de want those extra +30, just to be consistent with mbs of the rest of the xan weapons if anything
    I'm not OCD or anything, but I agree, I'd want it 2750 just to be consistent.

  14. #54
    I filed a bug repost for it, let's see if something happens... (MBS issue that is)
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  15. #55
    As long as you dumb roleplayers dont ask fc to harm MA's pvp vise im happy. Dont touch ma's please.
    Forever yours. Otmoz.

    Duel/solo stats can be faked. Side xp cant be. TL7 nw for life

  16. #56
    Care to remind us of how and why MA's might be in a position to be "harmed" in PVP?

  17. #57
    Or by RP'ers for that matter....
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
    Calms 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution
    Medicaiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution Setup
    Newen 220/30/70 President - The Galactic Milieu
    Mettagirl 220/20/** General - Primal Evolution
    Krataiken 150/18/40 General - Primal Evolution Setup

  18. #58
    I'd like to see our SL perks change dmg type. Currently they always remain melee dmg even if you use the fire/chem/energy fists or any of the alb devices. Imo we should be the masters of changing dmg types and not have them mixed like that.

    Otherwise MAs are fine in pvp and pvm too (Yes, you can do pretty sick dmg setup or you can do just fine with pvp setup in pvm). Of course, melee profs aren't the best for open pvp and it's mainly fixers you fight but at least we are one of the best profs in duels.

    - Kittlepunch

  19. #59
    Unfortunately, the perks have to do a damage type. All your high end fist dmg buffs add melee+ aswell as <dmgtype>+, so perks are then effected by tit.

    As far as I know, apart from some specific items (arul sabas, dmg rings) - the rest (alb bracer etc) add to all dmg types.

    There isnt the mechanic ingame at the moment to 'choose' a dmg type for perk actions - and IMO melee is the best that there is to suit everyone.

    Mark

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Solcv2 View Post
    Unfortunately, the perks have to do a damage type. All your high end fist dmg buffs add melee+ aswell as <dmgtype>+, so perks are then effected by tit.

    As far as I know, apart from some specific items (arul sabas, dmg rings) - the rest (alb bracer etc) add to all dmg types.

    There isnt the mechanic ingame at the moment to 'choose' a dmg type for perk actions - and IMO melee is the best that there is to suit everyone.

    Mark
    Incorrect. A number of perks have already been changed to match the damage type of equipped weapons and therefore are affected by damage type changing nanos/perks/equipment.

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