Agent pvm-damage stagnates after tl5 and up

[sultryvoltron]

I am torn on that point. 220 pets made all the pet classes DD contenders as you basically have the equivalent of 2-3 avg players in one. So it's kinda unfair to use pet classes in DD comparisons except vs each other or other main line dmg dealers.

Ok then. How about Shades? They sit just above top Crats and circumstantially just under top Engis.

[Cratertina]

It doesn't matter.
This all comes back to what I said in the "enf's are the nurfest" thread. If you play hard, you'll do good damage.

Buffing pets with the 2minute superdamage buff, spamming specials to get justice to proc, and roasting mobs with 2 nukes under justice is where the real damage comes from. Heck, the way I play crat, I don't even debuff mobs in most content, I go straight for the jugular.

But, thats the difference between 120k DPM and 280k DPM.

There he said it! Most of the time damage matters so little, that when you do a good job you'll do a good enough job.

Take inferno mission 5 110k+ people will totaly disable any chance top DDer will go to 300, becouse of all the running.

If we go by.. "I can't break 200k so I don't matter.." everyone except top DDers pushing don't matter.

But everyone does matter, becouse when **** hits the fan, you yell at them and tell them to push damage for a few brief moment their damage doubles and kinda saves the day, then they go back to their non-survival style and press 20 buttons a minute again.

No idea how to fix this, maybe if Agent had a proc that for 5 seconds unlocks AS cap, that'd be smomething.

[Xirayne]

There he said it! Most of the time damage matters so little, that when you do a good job you'll do a good enough job.

I do agree, however, this would remain true even if agents were given a damage and/or toolset boost to become a more balanced and desired prof for pvm.

[Lazy]

If we go by.. "I can't break 200k so I don't matter.." everyone except top DDers pushing don't matter.

everyone has the POTENTIAL to break 200k dpm... except agents.

In about 4/5 teams for ANY content... thats what the parser damage distribution looks like.

in the occasional team, you get 2+ DD whores and you get the content done faster.

Thats kinda what I don't understand about all this. If you actually press the buttons fast and run around, you'll OD everyone and his dog.

this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard. the point isn't comparing a tryhard agent to 5 greenies semi-afk. the point is comparing agent to other professions trying equally hard to push dd. when you do that you see that no matter how hard you try you'll never od anything worth oding.

I call Bullsh*t.

anyone playing at 0-10% is doign absolutely F-all.

case in point: tryharding agent barely (12kdm) od's afk remod crat with unbuffed pets.

Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
2. Srompu ( 849.763 / 152.640 / 137 / 51 / 37% / 9.140 )
3. Levira ( 776.330 / 139.440 / 649 / 33 / 5% / 3.445 )

2. PvP-setup agent, offensive hud, SE helm, unsettling shock, waves of trauma, 939 init, full def, crit/dot procs, abusing iGnat's and AC. The 9k is assassinate.
3. AFK remod crat with unbuffed pets.

THIS IS WRONG. THIS SHOULD NOT BE. THIS IS PANTS ON HEAD RETARDED THAT THESE SITUATIONS EXIST. an afk person should NOT be this close on the dd dumpers to someone tryharding

[drainbamage]

Exactly. All these idiotic claims that agent damage is fine because "nobody tries anyways" are missing the point so badly that they're hitting a totally different point (that endgame content is too damn easy).


Also, lol at Psikie calling agents "ranged support". Anytime someone wants to justify a profession being seriously underpowered they label it support.

[Otansaanpas]

Anyway, i'm all for people going buck-chow and breaking the damage meters, but, it really doesn't seem to be necessary, for one, or condusive to game "enjoyment". Like, if you pox 4 times in one fight... because the rest fo the team is functioning at a "human level" and you're functioning and pushing DD at a "I know kung fu" level.... well, is it fun?

you have no idea how fun that is!
gear up one of your toons to top dd and see it for yourself.

[Noer]

If agent are support maybe they would have had access to support symbiants? :P

[Gatester]

This all comes back to what I said in the "enf's are the nurfest" thread. If you play hard, you'll do good damage.

I did it, I smashed my face into the keyboard at mach speed and I broke 500k DPM. HOLY ****

Pain = DPM

[Psikie]

Also, lol at Psikie calling agents "ranged support". Anytime someone wants to justify a profession being seriously underpowered they label it support.

If agent are support maybe they would have had access to support symbiants? :P

You know I facepalm every time that I have to dumb down my posts and "define" what i'm saying for some readers.

In AO you have basically 3 types of roles in any team TANK, HEALER, and SUPPORT. If you are not the main Tank or Healer you are support. Even if you consider 5 enfos and 1 doc only 1 is the MAIN TANK and 1 is the MAIN HEALER everyone else SUPPORTS the 2 main roles with DD or crowd control.

[Lazy]

today i learned that shades are support profs.

[sultryvoltron]

today i learned that shades are support profs.

And Advies are everything to everyone.

[Psikie]

today i learned that shades are support profs.

As snarky and dense as ever, but shades can be main tank in a team, otherwise yea they are support. It's good to know that even you can learn something new everyday and finally admit you don't know everything.

[lainbr]

Let me repeat. Almost any you see every day and actualy does content for his/her benefit.

Besides Inf mishs, every single other content I do with ppl who pushs dd.

[Xirayne]

In AO you have basically 3 types of roles in any team TANK, HEALER, and SUPPORT. If you are not the main Tank or Healer you are support. Even if you consider 5 enfos and 1 doc only 1 is the MAIN TANK and 1 is the MAIN HEALER everyone else SUPPORTS the 2 main roles with DD or crowd control.

If this is the case, wouldn't it be quite reasonable if every prof were given the potential and ability to achieve similar effectiveness in a "support" role? Especially a prof like an agent which is, in comparison to other profs, unable to achieve proficiency in tanking, healing, CC, nor DD, regardless of what setup they choose and how hard they try.

[Lazy]

It's good to know that even you can learn something new everyday and finally admit you don't know everything.

ofc. i endeavour to learn at least one new thing every day. how does one improve without learning?

If this is the case, wouldn't it be quite reasonable if every prof were given the potential and ability to achieve similar effectiveness in a "support" role? Especially a prof like an agent which is, in comparison to other profs, unable to achieve proficiency in tanking, healing, CC, nor DD, regardless of what setup they choose and how hard they try.

"150k dpm ought to be enough for anyone" - Steve Jobs.

[Psikie]

If this is the case, wouldn't it be quite reasonable if every prof were given the potential and ability to achieve similar effectiveness in a "support" role? Especially a prof like an agent which is, in comparison to other profs, unable to achieve proficiency in tanking, healing, CC, nor DD, regardless of what setup they choose and how hard they try.

At 220 you are correct, but 210 and below I've seen paid account agents do all 3 roles tank/heal/support competently. 211-220 there is a sharp up tick in capabilities that starts for all other proffessions that is a lot slower and lesser for agents.

[Xirayne]

At 220 you are correct, but 210 and below I've seen paid account agents do all 3 roles tank/heal/support competently. 211-220 there is a sharp up tick in capabilities that starts for all other proffessions that is a lot slower and lesser for agents.

That's exactly the issue everyone is trying to say! As agents get closer to endgame after tl5, they gain only a little effectiveness, while other profs gain quite a lot. We're trying to suggest solutions to that problem to make agents more balanced at endgame. As others have suggested, a significant improvement in endgame agent dd potential and perhaps the removal of CH taunt would put agents in a good spot

[Psikie]

That's exactly the issue everyone is trying to say!

No what others have been shouting to the heavens is agents are worthless POS prof. That should NEVER be invited to teams.

Which is just not the case. They are fine up to 205...bordeline 210. and at 220 they fall off but still are not bottom rung DD. Which is what i've been saying. Not to split hairs on the subject, but 220 is not the only lvl in game that matters nor is it the only level people do raids and end game content.

[Xirayne]

No what others have been shouting to the heavens is agents are worthless POS prof. That should NEVER be invited to teams.

Competitive players will evaluate profs in competitive situations. In a competitive situation there is no reason to invite an agent into an endgame team unless there is no other option, this is where you run into disagreement because you are a player who will invite people just to be nice, which isn't a bad thing. However, kindness isn't the same as profession balance.

Both sides are in agreement that agent under performs at endgame, yet instead of finding solutions to this basic problem, you are getting into arguments over how this problem affects your personal gameplay. A competitive player will see the agent prof as useless, which is true in a competitive situation. A casual and friendly player will happily make do for the sake of the game. Again, that isn't how prof balance works.

Not to split hairs on the subject, but 220 is not the only lvl in game that matters nor is it the only level people do raids and end game content.

Absolutely, but considering the subject of profession balance includes level 220, there is no excuse to ignore it based on this fact

I am also not sure what makes you think that agents are not bottom rung dd when even doctors have the potential to do equal or superior damage while performing a primary healing(and in the case mentioned, tanking) role

Hit LotV the other day and someone had zDD going:
Srompu : 78.8% | 186,407 | 33-16-1105: 287,506 :
Srompu : 63.1% | 169,605 | 176-99-7675: 2,456,877 :

That's sploiting AS every time, sploiting iGnat's, sploiting AC, in FP trader for AR, full aggro, top procs, soldier in team, something like +1400 damage. First one I had 12m and MoP, second I didn't. I think the first dump was on a single LotV, so the higher crit% might be random chance.

Also, referring to Thadoc's 193k dpm with 12m while tanking, in full def, not OSB, with no ranged init, this is slightly depressing.

[sultryvoltron]

At 220 you are correct, but 210 and below I've seen paid account agents do all 3 roles tank/heal/support competently. 211-220 there is a sharp up tick in capabilities that starts for all other proffessions that is a lot slower and lesser for agents.

My Engi could get team invites at 160 if all I wanted to do was Inf missions. I don't see how team invites for leveling content, or ability to function in easy leveling content, means that Agents are fine...

No what others have been shouting to the heavens is agents are worthless POS prof. That should NEVER be invited to teams.

Which is just not the case. They are fine up to 205...bordeline 210. and at 220 they fall off but still are not bottom rung DD. Which is what i've been saying. Not to split hairs on the subject, but 220 is not the only lvl in game that matters nor is it the only level people do raids and end game content.

How are they NOT bottom rung DD? What 220 maxed out endgame profession CAN'T outdamage an equivalently geared Agent? An Enfo probably? And what exactly is it that an Agent can provide that would make a meaningful difference towards the completion of the content?

What's the purpose of inviting an Agent to your team, one that does about the same amount of damage as an Enfo, when you could instead invite an Enfo? You would get roughly the same damage AND you would get a tank.

What's the purpose of inviting an Agent to your team, one that does less damage than a Doctor, when you could instead invite a Doctor? You would get MORE damage and you would get at least 2.5x the Healing.

What's the purpose of inviting an Agent to your team, one that does less damage than a Crat, when you could instead invite a Crat? You would get WAAAAAAAAY MORE damage and you would get WAAAAAAAAAY MORE utility and support.



Basically, any content that you would, out of purely altruistic motives, invite an Agent for could be done with the exact same team minus the Agent, and it would at most take you a few extra minutes.