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Thread: Agent pvm-damage stagnates after tl5 and up

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Im going to look for the best DPM from mimics as well, but the whole point is going to be that agent's are not given a viable means to reach effective levels of damage while remaining in their intended toolset.
    I almost could not believe I read this correctly and had to look at it 3x to make sure. What do you consider "effective levels of damage"? What exactly does that mean? Is there an official chart some where I have not seen that designates how far up or down the DD chart all profs should be? Do you think that agents are supposed to equal or better "A-B-C" profs in damage dealing?

    Do you not think agent versatility equates to overall better game play experience? If not why not just play A-B-C damage dealing prof if you are primarily concerned with "effective levels of damage"?
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  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I almost could not believe I read this correctly and had to look at it 3x to make sure. What do you consider "effective levels of damage"? What exactly does that mean? Is there an official chart some where I have not seen that designates how far up or down the DD chart all profs should be? Do you think that agents are supposed to equal or better "A-B-C" profs in damage dealing?

    Do you not think agent versatility equates to overall better game play experience? If not why not just play A-B-C damage dealing prof if you are primarily concerned with "effective levels of damage"?
    crat.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I almost could not believe I read this correctly and had to look at it 3x to make sure. What do you consider "effective levels of damage"? What exactly does that mean? Is there an official chart some where I have not seen that designates how far up or down the DD chart all profs should be? Do you think that agents are supposed to equal or better "A-B-C" profs in damage dealing?

    Do you not think agent versatility equates to overall better game play experience? If not why not just play A-B-C damage dealing prof if you are primarily concerned with "effective levels of damage"?
    AS is part of the agent toolset, AS can rarely be used by a soloing agent or an agent with aggro, AS is a signficant portion of damage.

    When an agent cannot kill a mob that uses heals "solo" without taking several minutes, I consider that a lack of effective level of damage. My enforcer can be in the same position where I am literally killing the same mob for several minutes because it heals more than I can do damage. I can give more honestly, but I do not feel a need to explain this to everyone that wants to get hyper-technical on forums. I will run some tests in the future, give the numbers and situation of the test, and people can compare for themselves based on my data.

    Agent "versatility" is also pointless if their current toolset does not support them being versatile when needed. The proposed changes to agent nanos are a sign that FC intends to adjust that in some way. When people have a 220 agent and a 220 of A-B-C profession, guess which they log for PVE content? The agent will never be used as long as someone has an available alternative.
    Last edited by Gatester; Dec 29th, 2012 at 16:45:46.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    AS is part of the agent toolset, AS can rarely be used by a soloing agent or an agent with aggro, AS is a signficant portion of damage.
    AS is a weapon attack not an ingrained toolset like nanos. Any prof can use AS weapons same as any prof can use first aid stims. Aside from that any agent worth their salt can use AS at least 1x per fight, and if you can use shade tactics for sneak attack you can often times do it more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    When an agent cannot kill a mob that uses heals "solo" without taking several minutes, I consider that a lack of effective level of damage.
    I hear docs for majority of their careers often take several minutes to kill mobs also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    Agent "versatility" is also pointless if their current toolset does not support them being versatile when needed. The proposed changes to agent nanos are a sign that FC intends to adjust that in some way. When people have a 220 agent and a 220 of A-B-C profession, guess which they log for PVE content? The agent will never be used as long as someone has an available alternative.
    Even the character creation step labels agents as difficult prof to play, it's not for everyone. Most agents I know use their versatility to plan ahead how they want to tackle a particular task/mob/encounter. They also prefer to play their agents over all others and rarely have more than 2 other endgame toons.

    Do your tests but I can tell you what you are going to find...Without some extreme setup agents are going to be a mid range DD prof slightly better than other support profs. However those results can greatly vary depending on fp usage also.
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  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post

    Do your tests but I can tell you what you are going to find...Without some extreme setup agents are going to be a mid range DD prof slightly better than other support profs. However those results can greatly vary depending on fp usage also.
    so you need an extreme setup to do mediocre damage?


    this is starting to look a lot like that "dd enfo" thread where some crackhead said 200k dpm is "good" dd...

  6. #86
    Versatility?

    Seriously?

    What is an Agent going to kill in solo PvM without being fp Doc?
    The Fine Arts:
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    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    AS is a weapon attack not an ingrained toolset like nanos. Any prof can use AS weapons same as any prof can use first aid stims. Aside from that any agent worth their salt can use AS at least 1x per fight, and if you can use shade tactics for sneak attack you can often times do it more.
    So what you just said is that agents have buffs, research, perks, and weapons which support using aimed shot, but aimed shot is not part of the agent toolset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I hear docs for majority of their careers often take several minutes to kill mobs also.
    So what you are saying here is...agents healing or at least survival is equivalent to doctors so it is ok? I have no other way of interpreting how your comparison between agents and doctors could be relative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Even the character creation step labels agents as difficult prof to play, it's not for everyone. Most agents I know use their versatility to plan ahead how they want to tackle a particular task/mob/encounter. They also prefer to play their agents over all others and rarely have more than 2 other endgame toons.
    Should I use FP doc or FP doc for this? Haven't found that switch I can flip and go from low damage rifle setup with mediocre survival to an all out MA setup with implants, weps, and gear to support it either.

  8. #88
    So I soloed Bia's Fav in 1.5 mins. Killed Scary in 14.5 mins. Went to hit LotV with a buddy.

    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    1. Thadoc ( 1.077.186 / 193.500 / 245 / 37 / 15% / 5.061 )
    2. Srompu ( 849.763 / 152.640 / 137 / 51 / 37% / 9.140 )
    3. Levira ( 776.330 / 139.440 / 649 / 33 / 5% / 3.445 )

    1. PvP-setup doc with scope, AS pistol, and 12m buff, 130 init, full def, tanking, doing the healing, -init procs. Subtracting 200 damage per hit gives -49k damage, which is 1029k correcting for 12m.
    2. PvP-setup agent, offensive hud, SE helm, unsettling shock, waves of trauma, 939 init, full def, crit/dot procs, abusing iGnat's and AC. The 9k is assassinate.
    3. AFK remod crat with unbuffed pets.

    I hear we're mid-range, slightly better than other support profs. Imagine if we were an artillery prof.
    You gained 96 PVP Solo Score.
    Angelyna: (03:55) Srompu forces your NCU to run Feet of Stone...
    [Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he's a 220 crat and srompu is probably wearing tl5 symbs
    [Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he deserved to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    You don't see people wandering around screaming "THIS BOOK IN THE FIRST PERSON WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS A QUASIGENDER HAMSTER ON FIRE".

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Sromp View Post
    2. PvP-setup
    why?
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
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  10. #90
    So agents pushing dd do slightly better than an afk remod crat? Trololol

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Sromp View Post
    Went to hit LotV with a buddy.

    Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
    1. Thadoc ( 1.077.186 / 193.500 / 245 / 37 / 15% / 5.061 )
    2. Srompu ( 849.763 / 152.640 / 137 / 51 / 37% / 9.140 )
    3. Levira ( 776.330 / 139.440 / 649 / 33 / 5% / 3.445 )

    1. PvP-setup doc with scope, AS pistol, and 12m buff, 130 init, full def, tanking, doing the healing, -init procs. Subtracting 200 damage per hit gives -49k damage, which is 1029k correcting for 12m.
    2. PvP-setup agent, offensive hud, SE helm, unsettling shock, waves of trauma, 939 init, full def, crit/dot procs, abusing iGnat's and AC. The 9k is assassinate.
    3. AFK remod crat with unbuffed pets.
    Doing LotV with a doc tanking is the perfect configuration for swapping crit gear (bare AT3, depends your pvp setup ofc), FPing crat, casting crit aura, grabbing 2 pets and doubling your DPM

    With all due respect you was far from reaching your potential there !

    This just show agent need harder work then other profs ...

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Sromp View Post
    So I soloed Bia's Fav in 1.5 mins. Killed Scary in 14.5 mins. Went to hit LotV with a buddy.
    maybe you should equip pistolas senior
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Doing LotV with a doc tanking is the perfect configuration for swapping crit gear (bare AT3, depends your pvp setup ofc), FPing crat, casting crit aura, grabbing 2 pets and doubling your DPM

    With all due respect you was far from reaching your potential there !

    This just show agent need harder work then other profs ...
    But a Crat who was using Remod with unbuffed pets put in next to no effort and got similar DPM numbers...

    If the Crat was working as hard as you think Srompu should have, the Crat would have nearly doubled the Docs DPM. If it was an Inf LOTV, the Crat could have grabbed two Ansasi's Childs or two Eremites and definitely doubled the Docs DPM.
    The Fine Arts:
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    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Otansaanpas View Post
    why?
    Why not? If you go make a PvM setup and use the swaps I mentioned, you'll get similar gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Doing LotV with a doc tanking is the perfect configuration for swapping crit gear (bare AT3, depends your pvp setup ofc), FPing crat, casting crit aura, grabbing 2 pets and doubling your DPM

    With all due respect you was far from reaching your potential there !

    This just show agent need harder work then other profs ...
    1) The point of LotV was to compare average endgame doc and agent steady damage. We originally were going to compare soloing times on Scary, but it was dead.
    2) FPing crat and grabbing pets is a highly contrived situation, and I don't think it's useful.
    3) The crat wasn't even part of the original test. It made it in here because of lol.

    It would help if some of you agents could try various setups in various situations and give us an idea of how high/low our DD is.
    Last edited by Sromp; Dec 30th, 2012 at 22:16:57.
    You gained 96 PVP Solo Score.
    Angelyna: (03:55) Srompu forces your NCU to run Feet of Stone...
    [Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he's a 220 crat and srompu is probably wearing tl5 symbs
    [Theater of Tragedy] Johnnykay: he deserved to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    You don't see people wandering around screaming "THIS BOOK IN THE FIRST PERSON WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF THE MAIN CHARACTER WAS A QUASIGENDER HAMSTER ON FIRE".

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    so you need an extreme setup to do mediocre damage
    I know you like to just randomly comment sometimes, but no that is not what I said. To repeat what I said is, "Without some extreme setup agents are going to be a mid range DD prof slightly better than other support profs. However those results can greatly vary depending on fp usage also. " In english that means agents are mid range DD comparable to other "support" toons.

    Quote Originally Posted by sultryvoltron View Post
    What is an Agent going to kill in solo PvM without being fp Doc?
    Honestly I only played my agent to lvl 202 or 205ish but most of time I was fp advy for various morphs, dmg shields, and some heals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    So what you just said is that agents have buffs, research, perks, and weapons which support using aimed shot, but aimed shot is not part of the agent toolset?
    Thats fantastic but circular logic, MP's have a lot of support for tigress (mp only bow) which includes AS, that does not make AS part of their toolset. Again AS is a function of your weapon not function of toolset. Regardless of what buffs you get nothing is making you use those items. Better example is Sol who gets best AR with assault rifle, but plenty use pistol/smg at parts of their career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatester View Post
    So what you are saying here is...agents healing or at least survival is equivalent to doctors so it is ok?
    No you missed the point entirely, what i said was "I hear docs for majority of their careers often take several minutes to kill mobs also. " However I could have substituted shade/enfo/keeper instead of doc also when solo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Doing LotV with a doc tanking is the perfect configuration for swapping crit gear (bare AT3, depends your pvp setup ofc), FPing crat, casting crit aura, grabbing 2 pets and doubling your DPM

    With all due respect you was far from reaching your potential there !

    This just show agent need harder work then other profs ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    maybe you should equip pistolas senior
    I am so glad players other than me don't need how to guides to everything AO that can think outside the box.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I know you like to just randomly comment sometimes, but no that is not what I said. To repeat what I said is, "Without some extreme setup agents are going to be a mid range DD prof slightly better than other support profs. However those results can greatly vary depending on fp usage also. " In english that means agents are mid range DD comparable to other "support" toons.
    "mid range"? OD'ing greens isn't mid-range last i checked. and exactly which support toons are those? shield mp's? because as sromp has shown even docs OD agents, meaning to fill a dd spot in a team one would prefer a healmonkey to a silent killer with a high-powered rifle. do you not see the problem with this scenario?
    Last edited by Lazy; Dec 31st, 2012 at 01:04:17.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Honestly I only played my agent to lvl 202 or 205ish but most of time I was fp advy for various morphs, dmg shields, and some heals.

    I am so glad players other than me don't need how to guides to everything AO that can think outside the box.
    OH! I see! You played your Agent until 205! You should have told us of your qualifications earlier so that we wouldn't have just assumed you were an idiot troll. Had you told us that you had a 205 Agent before, we wouldn't have had to assume anything, we would have known everything for sure!

    I encourage you to try and make a viable non-rifle setup which uses makes use of the core perklines in the Agent toolset.

    I hope you like trying to PvM with only one snareperk.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    "mid range"? OD'ing greens isn't mid-range last i checked. and exactly which support toons are those?
    Silly...How about I say mid range to all toons. I'm sure even you trying to be snarky would never say Agents are bottom DD 100% of time.

    However as suggested earlier fp crat and grab some pets for extra DD. Maybe also re-read some of the posts above and understand pvp setup agents can VASTLY differ from pvm setup agents.

    Quote Originally Posted by sultryvoltron View Post
    I encourage you to try and make a viable non-rifle setup which uses makes use of the core perklines in the Agent toolset.
    I suggest you head over to the agent forums for some ideas and results that are posted, i'm not doing your homework for you. If you are not satisfied with playing an agent that would be the place to look for some new ideas.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  19. #99
    Who in his right mind would CRIPPLE and DESTROY his agent by not using a rifle setup? Are you people mad or wtf? if you use anything but rifle, your agent will be a low DD gimp buff whore no normal team would ever need and you'll be useless for any pvp activity.
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  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I suggest you head over to the agent forums for some ideas and results that are posted, i'm not doing your homework for you. If you are not satisfied with playing an agent that would be the place to look for some new ideas.
    I'll give you a little hint:

    Requires Rifle Equipped.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

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