Agent pvm-damage stagnates after tl5 and up

[Lazy]

This was a pretty bare bones setup all test toons were solitus so no MR. Also no DD adds except db bracer/master bracer so there is a lot of DD that can be dumped into that setup in huds/utils that are all empty. Also alien armor, rings, dd bracers. So count on a fair estimate being 160k+ vs high defense, 230k+ vs lower defense. Dual weapons even more. I did test dual pistols (ql200/200 ofab) but should have done 1he truthfully.

So I still disagree, Agent dmg today is still better than 90% of all profs from 6months ago. So unless 90% of all toons dmg was abysmal 6months ago then agent DD today is not. If you want to say all profs DD increased and agents are still not at top I would agree with that. But agents were never at the top of the DD pole anyway. The encounters have not changed since then only characters DD. At which agents are still mid range not the top or the bottom.

6 months ago the only professions pushing sub 150k dpm were docs, shield mp's and enfos even shotgun traders with their top nanos uploaded skirted the 180k dpm mark. last i checked, that wasn't 90% of all profs. the lower def dummy is worthless beacuse you're getting 100% crit on it with both the crat and the sold with 0 crit gear. forget it exists, all it does is throw off your numbers.



also, MR doesn't affect pvm dd. it's a pvp only perk.


also also, noticed this gem and nearly did a doubletake:

If you want to say all profs DD increased and agents are still not at top I would agree with that. But agents were never at the top of the DD pole anyway. The encounters have not changed since then only characters DD. At which agents are still mid range not the top or the bottom.

finally, we're reaching progress: yes! everyone else improved, not just agents! yes, agents are still bottom tier dd with subpar support toolset that has not improved since sl! great! we can both agree that agent pvm performance is sub par to the point that if you have all the lovechild profs you need in the team (doc/enf/crat/sold) having an empty slot is preferrable to the poor damage an agent puts out since an empty slot doesn't loot.

we can sit here and argue "well lazy is a jerk that doens't invite anything not top-tier, while i'm nice and take anyone" but that doesn't change the fact that most sane, rational people would not choose an agent for an encounter if there's literally anything else on lft.

[Ayada]

Couldn't find anyone willing to tank lotv for me, but here is a dump from scary spider:
zDD v1.03 (parsed from 9 minutes, 54 seconds)
#: totalDmg : name : crit% |dpm| reg&crit-spec-nano hits

1: 1,752,349 : Ayada : 53.3% | 177,004 | 261-37-875

Yes, it would be higher if i wasn't soloing. I can tell you that the highest I have ever done was 250k dpm on a prisoner, which really isn't anything. Most raids or High AC mobs it varies around 180-220k.

With the damage being so low, and really no support options (ubt duty is really about it) there really is no reason for me to ever play the agent in team situations these days. Usually I just play the shade who not only does more damage, but also provides more support. (init debuff procs + shades caress is a lot more useful than an ubt monkey and a suicidal ch to save the tank) With the server merge it will be even worse when I can play the crat and doc again.

[Psikie]

Let me try to recap your 2 schools of thought...

but of course i'm one of those silly people that prioritizes getting the content done over thinking outside the box.

having an empty slot is preferrable to the poor damage an agent puts out since an empty slot doesn't loot.

How can you be for getting content done, when you are passing up additional DD regardless how little you value it? For you to actually say or even worse actually believe 2 empty team slots is better than 1-2 agents is not surprising, you will say anything to try and prove a point. Even though "getting content done" usually means more DD, you would prefer to purposely handicap your team efficiency with an empty slot instead of having and agent in team.

BTW MR +1500 offensive mod, still affects hits v misses and max dmg in pvm.

You can feel free to team or not team who ever you choose.

[sultryvoltron]

How can you be for getting content done, when you are passing up additional DD regardless how little you value it? For you to actually say or even worse actually believe 2 empty team slots is better than 1-2 agents is not surprising, you will say anything to try and prove a point. Even though "getting content done" usually means more DD, you would prefer to purposely handicap your team efficiency with an empty slot instead of having and agent in team.

BTW MR +1500 offensive mod, still affects hits v misses and max dmg in pvm.

You can feel free to team or not team who ever you choose.

1) Getting content done means using the OP PvM professions.

2) Team efficiency in recent times is directly correlated to loot efficiency. The less people in your team, the more loot you get.

Glad I could clear those two things up for you.

[Psikie]

1) Getting content done means using the OP PvM professions.

2) Team efficiency in recent times is directly correlated to loot efficiency. The less people in your team, the more loot you get.

What are you Lazy's fanboy or something? Why are you trying to co-sign his posts? Getting it done means completing it. Maybe you should re read the posts because it is NOT efficient to leave slots in team empty as opposed to having an agent in team. Loot has nothing to do with team efficiency.

Efficiency describes the extent to which time, effort or cost is well used for the intended task or purpose. Having empty team spots is NOT efficient when you can have an agent instead of empty spot. So either you do not under stand what efficiency means or you can stubbornly continue to state you would rather have empty spots in team.

[Contra]

can outdamage 3 agents easily on my gimp shade just perked for pvm. It's why I didn't use my agent in pvm(or pvp) the last 4 years

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Can an agent OD an enforcer?

[Manicmouse]

You're not going to merge the enforcers' DD is the nerfest thread with the agents' DD is the nerfest thread are you...

[Lazy]

BTW MR +1500 offensive mod, still affects hits v misses and max dmg in pvm.

this would be true if using MR didn't also nerf your AR by 1000 for 20 seconds after.

the way MR works is you have 10 seconds of + 1500 AR and then 20 secounds of -1000 AR and -1000 RS. so even if your ar was low enough that your reg dmg was affected by 1500 aao, you'd still lose out from the -1000 aao with double duration.

[cybertron]

What are you Lazy's fanboy or something? Why are you trying to co-sign his posts? Getting it done means completing it. Maybe you should re read the posts because it is NOT efficient to leave slots in team empty as opposed to having an agent in team. Loot has nothing to do with team efficiency.

Efficiency describes the extent to which time, effort or cost is well used for the intended task or purpose. Having empty team spots is NOT efficient when you can have an agent instead of empty spot. So either you do not under stand what efficiency means or you can stubbornly continue to state you would rather have empty spots in team.

I can see where they're coming from here. What is the intended task or purpose in this case? Is it

1) Complete the raid and give each other a pat on the back for completing the content
2) Complete the raid and split the loot up between everyone participating, for use or for selling for lootrights

In raids done between orgmates, friends, etc. it may be Purpose #1, and the addition of an agent instead of an empty spot can only help rather than hinder the purpose.

In random raids done with randoms, or done for specific loot, then I can see why agents would be left out in favour of an empty spot who won't roll for loot as its one less person to split the loot with. If the content can be done by the minimum of chars with optimal profs, then thats usually what's done. Whenever I see spams for people to fill farming teams for farm raids, they usually specify stuff like "WTB enf/doc/crat/sol for XXX raid", that's because they want the minimum required profs to complete the content and split the loot. Efficiency wise, this is seen as the most effiicient way to get the participants their loot/creds. Getting the content done 10% or 20% quicker because of the extra little DD that the agent brings along isn't seen as a good trade-off because that 10% quicker is usually offset by just doing the raid again with the same team for more loot.

Unfortunately, that's the reality of the game these days. My 220 agent has pretty much been mothballed because no one ever asks me to relog to my agent to do a specific raid, they always ask me to relog to my enf/doc/crat/sol instead.

[srompu]

Hit LotV the other day and someone had zDD going:

Atmosfear : 47.1% | 347,096 | 70-20-3392: 585,384 :
Encore : 23.5% | 258,257 | 183-12-683: 424,630 :
Cubira1 : 17.5% | 187,336 | 57-33-164: 422,523 :
Srompu : 78.8% | 186,407 | 33-16-1105: 287,506 :
Kasssandra : 34.9% | 126,840 | 63-14-1336: 127,913 :
Tingeling : 26.3% | 56,432 | 38-5-40

And, a little later:
Atmosfear : 52.9% | 320,517 | 456-130-15992: 4,312,531
Nush : 32.5% | 282,788 | 456-154-15003: 3,605,054 :
Slates : 27.3% | 236,396 | 450-150-16584: 2,586,477 :
Srompu : 63.1% | 169,605 | 176-99-7675: 2,456,877 :
Cubira1 : 29.6% | 161,106 | 365-167-966: 1,675,583 :
Roquet : 9.9% | 109,874 | 1184-0-627: _,178,511 :
Rubikscub : 2.7% | 11,705 | 149-12-32

That's sploiting AS every time, sploiting iGnat's, sploiting AC, in FP trader for AR, full aggro, top procs, soldier in team, something like +1400 damage. First one I had 12m and MoP, second I didn't. I think the first dump was on a single LotV, so the higher crit% might be random chance.

I doubt Agent damage can get much higher. Of course, the AC on LotV is huge, so I was hitting 3999 crits w/o 12m iirc. However, in an inf mission, for example, there will likely be downtime between mobs. I haven't checked this yet though.
Also, referring to Thadoc's 193k dpm with 12m while tanking, in full def, not OSB, with no ranged init, this is slightly depressing.

Also, ignore Slates' damage.
Slates: i'm going to drink and bio, f your dd prog :P
And Cub was either dual or triple-logged; I forget which.

[Gatester]

Numbers numbers... All profs were made using ql220-250 symbs, 225 SS armor, and Xan upgraded beast weapon Crat dual lust. All very bare bones hud/utils rings/shoulders.

Equivalent of a leveling TL7 I suppose, falls very short of evaluating endgame potential though as I am sure you are aware. I would not worry about other professions too much as most players know the capabilities of others.

[Psikie]

Equivalent of a leveling TL7 I suppose, falls very short of evaluating endgame potential though as I am sure you are aware. I would not worry about other professions too much as most players know the capabilities of others.

Very true indeed, esd for sake of completeness I tried to use the same or equivalent gear (xan weapons) to get a base line test prof vs prof. Obviously some profs benefit more from end game or prof specific dread/alba gear etc.

[Djiax]

That's sploiting AS every time

How ??? PM !

Does that give you AS every 10 sec ??

Nice test, crit rate is really good (78% is insane), and doesn't seem to cut it ... Just lack pets for the sake of it !

[Obtena]

That's sploiting AS every time, sploiting iGnat's, sploiting AC, in FP trader for AR, full aggro, top procs, soldier in team, something like +1400 damage.

You didn't have max runspeed and use pistols or some other unsupported weaponry? I hear doing those things to improve your damage is very in vogue at the moment. Oh and of course, playing harder.

[Cratertina]

I can't see what the complaint is about? Advies, traders, some Soldiers, Docs, Enfos, MP's, Keepers have less damage than that.

Srompu : 78.8% | 186,407 | 33-16-1105: 287,506 :

Also you are welcome to join OT-RP's raid any time, you seem like nice guy, we'll take you for your attitude.

[sultryvoltron]

I can't see what the complaint is about? Advies, traders, some Soldiers, Docs, Enfos, MP's, Keepers have less damage than that.

Srompu : 78.8% | 186,407 | 33-16-1105: 287,506 :

Also you are welcome to join OT-RP's raid any time, you seem like nice guy, we'll take you for your attitude.

Trying as hard as possible in an endgame setup using "questionable game mechanics" and he didn't even break 200k DPM, and you can't see what the complaint is about?

[Cratertina]

Trying as hard as possible in an endgame setup using "questionable game mechanics" and he didn't even break 200k DPM, and you can't see what the complaint is about?

What I am trying to say most professions do less damage than he did.

Here is an example of what normal Vortex DD run looks like.

Player (Damage/Damage per Minute/Hits/Crits/Crit%/highest hit)
Crat ( 1.511.030 / 291.480 / 619 / 37 / 5% / 9.750 )
Crat ( 678.030 / 130.800 / 418 / 15 / 3% / 5.224 )
Tank ( 575.167 / 110.940 / 206 / 8 / 3% / 6.129 )
Crat ( 532.755 / 102.780 / 463 / 13 / 2% / 3.276 )
Sold ( 528.577 / 101.940 / 101 / 2 / 1% / 15.000 )
Doc ( 221.648 / 42.720 / 145 / 6 / 4% / 3.501 )

regular people trying to do content, + one slighly ddwhoring crat, 180ish looks kinda ok doesn't it? Srompu would contribute to such a team way above average, and in that sense he would be very welcome.

[Wakizaka]

Sold ( 528.577 / 101.940 / 101 / 2 / 1% / 15.000 )

Burst/FA/AFK ?

[drainbamage]

What I am trying to say most professions do less damage than he did.
...
regular people trying to do content, + one slighly ddwhoring crat, 180ish looks kinda ok doesn't it?

180kish does look okay when you're comparing it to people who clearly don't give a damn