Organization Items Terminal

[Traderjill]

Just going to quote my response to the last guy that posted this idea back in April..

I understand the idea but I"m not sure I get why there's a need for it.

Someone wants to borrow something?
- Loan it to them because you trust them to give it back based on the history of your relationship with said person.
- Don't loan it to them because you don't trust them enough to give it back based on your history (or lack of history) with the person.

The concept is interesting but it 'feels' like it'll take away the community aspect that I have always loved about AO. People in AO build reputations, join orgs and become part of a community, etc. When you take away the risk behind lending things then you don't get the opportunity to build up some of those 'simple' levels of trust between players.

I have poly pillows. There are people in my org (and not) that can ask to borrow them.. even keep them for a couple days while they twink. It is cool to know that you have friendships within your game community where you can trust the next person.. and cool for them to know that you handed them an expensive item knowing that they won't run off with it. I dunno.. I am sure that I'm failing with my explanation here but over the years, building up this type of trust between players (due to there being a risk) has seemed like a good thing and almost a unique quality of AO.. I'd hate to see that taken away.

I feel the same about the buff cans. If anyone in my org needs buffs.. generally 'someone' is willing to log a toon (or is logged to a toon) that can help them. That type of helpful behavior builds up the org community and I'd even dare to say is an added incentive for people joining orgs rather than going at it alone in the game.

[Mastura]

tbh i think the deal with stealing is a cop-out, from anarchy-online to wussies-online. just a basic org bank and old fashioned org discipline and that is enuff. maybe some acls and multiple banks solves it the easiest - bank vault shared with generals and higher, bank vault shared with members, bank vault shared with *.* etc. dont put your valuables in the hands of people you don't trust. dont recruit idiots. etc etc.

besides, even then you are not 100% safe. a GM could come and delete your city/towers/items by accident. so toughen up and KISS.

[Yama]

Simply put a nodrop flag on that copy and a timer (like for grid-armor).
And we have a nice org shop

[Therrito]

I mentioned a nodrop flag in my previous post on this thread :-)

[Mastura]

I assume none of you remember/were playing in the good ole' days of when you pvp'd someone and you won, you were able to loot/steal from them?

nodrop items to prevent stealing doesnt sound very anarchy to me.

[Firasting]

I assume none of you remember/were playing in the good ole' days of when you pvp'd someone and you won, you were able to loot/steal from them?

nodrop items to prevent stealing doesnt sound very anarchy to me.

Do you ever say anything constructive, maybe we should change your username to QFTMastura.

[Unikorn]

/sign
Great idea!

[Mastura]

Last edited by Anarrina; Today at 07:19:47.. Reason: removed trolling

Wow. I'm always polite, and the first person to get cranky at forum trolls and people giving noobs a hard time, and now all of a sudden I'm a troll?

What's more, the prejudice shown by the moderator, in leaving an >obvious< troll directed strictly at me by way of name calling (aka: reference to 'QFTMastura') was left unmodified and unscrutinised, yet stating an opinion that an enforced anti-stealing mechanism proposed was imho a step in the opposite direction, when the games origins actual had stealing as a valid reward for pvp, and reflecting in the very name of 'anarchy online' (assuming it was ever to mean anything?) is a troll?

Dear God, AO *has* changed. It used to be friendly. Maybe I'm just meant to take the bait and be trolled by a moderator and firasting.

Furthermore, I do resent the indication from that other person that I have nothing to contribute. If you search the forums with my username, you will see that I have been an active part of the community for >10 years, hold 4 or 5 active paid subscriptions with all expansions for as long as I can remember and have developed tools scripts and bots for community consumption. Not to mention the fact I've posted some very detailed and elaborate articles right on here with great feedback. Not to mention active participation in social/oog events since day 1.

Whatever.

PS this post may become 'moderated' as well.
PSS sorry for the derail. i still think org vaults are a fantastic idea!

[Therrito]

... when the games origins actual had stealing as a valid reward for pvp, and reflecting in the very name of 'anarchy online' ...

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but PvP has nothing to do with this thread.

[orochi3]

as much as this would screw up in game economy, F*** the economy

i love it

bump

[Traderjill]

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but PvP has nothing to do with this thread.

I actually get what he was trying to say with his reference to lootable bodies in PvP. From what I read, he was trying to illustrate another area of AO where limitations were not placed on protecting the individual assets of a player with the belief that the reason limits weren't placed was because the devs felt that there should be an element of risk in the game world. I think this belief of 'risk' is evident by the 'all trades are final' guidelines in place now.

As I mentioned in my post, the reality is that AO has always had a really interesting and unique community aspect. Part of that was built because you had to figure out who you could and could not trust. If you don't have situations requiring trust how can you ever establish it? We see this in many aspects of the game. Think about times when you've had an invitation to a team or raid. If the team/raid leader was someone you didn't know you were basically hoping for the best. Once the team/raid was done you now have information on hand to determine whether or not that leader is someone you'd run with again (i.e. they did a good job, handled loot properly, gave proper instructions, etc) or someone you wouldn't be within 10 yards of (i.e. they ninja'd or allowed others to ninja, kicked people inappropriately, etc). Funcom could, hypothetically, introduce elements in the game to prevent bad team leaders from being a factor whatsoever but what would that do to the way we, as players, view our community?

I think those are questions we really need to ask ourselves when we start posting suggestions like this one. Yes, some things may very well be convenient in the short term but if it ruins some of the things that make AO unique and special to many of us.. is that convenience factor really worth it?

I play WoW now.. we have guild tabs. The guild master controls what level of access members have based on their guild rank. Everything from being able to remove X amount of items per day to deposit only access (where you need to ask an officer if you want to remove something). You always have a risk of losing items in a game.. its just part of the social aspect of a mmorpg.

[Mastura]

Thank you 100% agree and explained way better than I could

[Firasting]

I actually get what he was trying to say with his reference to lootable bodies in PvP. From what I read, he was trying to illustrate another area of AO where limitations were not placed on protecting the individual assets of a player with the belief that the reason limits weren't placed was because the devs felt that there should be an element of risk in the game world. I think this belief of 'risk' is evident by the 'all trades are final' guidelines in place now.

As I mentioned in my post, the reality is that AO has always had a really interesting and unique community aspect. Part of that was built because you had to figure out who you could and could not trust. If you don't have situations requiring trust how can you ever establish it? We see this in many aspects of the game. Think about times when you've had an invitation to a team or raid. If the team/raid leader was someone you didn't know you were basically hoping for the best. Once the team/raid was done you now have information on hand to determine whether or not that leader is someone you'd run with again (i.e. they did a good job, handled loot properly, gave proper instructions, etc) or someone you wouldn't be within 10 yards of (i.e. they ninja'd or allowed others to ninja, kicked people inappropriately, etc). Funcom could, hypothetically, introduce elements in the game to prevent bad team leaders from being a factor whatsoever but what would that do to the way we, as players, view our community?

I think those are questions we really need to ask ourselves when we start posting suggestions like this one. Yes, some things may very well be convenient in the short term but if it ruins some of the things that make AO unique and special to many of us.. is that convenience factor really worth it?

I play WoW now.. we have guild tabs. The guild master controls what level of access members have based on their guild rank. Everything from being able to remove X amount of items per day to deposit only access (where you need to ask an officer if you want to remove something). You always have a risk of losing items in a game.. its just part of the social aspect of a mmorpg.

I get what your saying, but on that same note nobldy was argueing on the side of keeping the game entirely as a community based game when they asked for and recived the team loot distribution system which in its own was not always in place, I specifically remember when you had to worry about ninjas in the teams because any person could jut steal loot. The community is small and things are harder to get these days and it would be annoying to lose hundreds of millions because a good person bends to bad judgement. We have tower wars, constant alien attacks going on, towers, tons of trolls in ooc, harsh environments and.lots of monsters ready to try and kill you at the drop of a dime, we have lots of anarchy what's putting in a system not only for item protection, but also to add intisements to joining community orgs and not just farm orgs.

[Traderjill]

I get what your saying, but on that same note nobldy was argueing on the side of keeping the game entirely as a community based game when they asked for and recived the team loot distribution system which in its own was not always in place, I specifically remember when you had to worry about ninjas in the teams because any person could jut steal loot.

Ok, you've lost me a bit here. I started the game in 2004 and /team loot leader was available at that time. If you look at the official game guide that was published on January 2005, that functionality was there. When exactly was /team loot leader not an option for teaming? I'm not saying it was always in game but if it was added in after game release it was done within the first 1-3 years I'm guessing.. prior to me playing.

The community is small and things are harder to get these days

Then the issue of the population should be fixed, not the implementation of an idea that would have a domino effect in several other areas of the game.

and it would be annoying to lose hundreds of millions because a good person bends to bad judgement.

If hundreds of millions of credits is a lot of money to you then you need to be a bit more careful with who you give hundreds of millions of credits worth of stuff to I guess. That's just life (be it online or not). Giving high value items to people that haven't established that they are trustworthy doesn't make sense to me.. especially if losing said items would cause you a personal inconvenience.

what's putting in a system not only for item protection, but also to add intisements to joining community orgs and not just farm orgs.

Enticement to join an org should be about playing with people that are in your time zone, share a similar view of gameplay (perhaps) or do the things you like.. and yes, resources (org city, towersites, game knowledge, items) should definitely factor in. Being able to build up your reputation within an organization, gain the trust of the membership and move up the ladder (if that is what you wish) are all cool aspects of joining guilds in games. Why would you want to take that social aspect away.

I guess in the end I do not believe that your idea is worth the potential negative effects that will result. In my last post I mentioned WoW's guild vault system. That is something AO needs. If someone wants to borrow twink gear, they can remove it (or it can be set at officer level and the officer can remove it for them) and then they can deposit it when they're done. No need to have the specific right person on at the right time because as long as someone of high enough org rank is able to access it (which I would imagine would be the case in even a semi-active org) then members can get the valued twink gear they need and return it without issue. If you were suggesting this I would happily bump your idea.

Instead, what you are suggesting is that twink items somehow become temporarily duplicated so that they can be borrowed from an org bank without any intervention on the part of the org itself. Sure, this sounds great but the unintended side effects aren't worth it in my opinion.. especially when a simple org vault system would accomplish the same thing.

This is Anarchy Online and while I agree that risk should be minimized when it makes sense to do so... removing player to player transaction risk is too extreme. One of the things that keeps the economy 'moving' is the inconvenience factor of having to borrow items. Let me break it down like this...

As a player I probably have 97% of the trade-able twink items available in game. So hypothetically speaking, I could just put these items in the bank so they could be temp duplicated and borrowed by all in my org. This could also include AI weapon buffing sets at different ql's, weapons, huds, etc. If I do that, basically no one in my org would have a need to buy or own their own copy of any of the items in the org bank. I'm not an economist so I won't try to post conclusions on how that effects the economy.. but my layman's gut feel here is that it would be problematic. Furthermore, we've now turned one of the org perks into some sort of automation that no longer requires players to talk to or deal with other players. Couple that with buff cans and item shop buyable stuff that used to be profession specific (like fgrid) and you're building up a community that no longer needs to interact. I just don't see how that's a good thing.

And then to what extent do you take your idea? I'll be honest and say I'm more concerned about an engie or trader not returning the materials for my QL 300 CSS than someone in an org keeping or stealing a poly pillow. This game is full of risk.. that is part of what keeps us on our toes and part of the culture of the game really. Using another example..

Most people that know me, now know me as Traderjill. Some are quite often surprised to find out that Traderjill is one of my newer alts. The reason people know Traderjill.. at least initially (before I started doing raids) was because I spent a lot of time offering paid tradeskill services in Old Athen and also spammed said services on neutnet. Over time, I became a person that people knew they could trust with their items. They didn't have to worry that I'd run off with their expensive AI bots or that I'd botch up their job. I build a positive/professional reputation with many members of the community and 'that' was part of the social aspect of the game for me. Take away the risks and yeah things are safe.. no worries of losing anything.. but you also take away the 'reward' or 'achievement' as well.