New In-Game Store Items

[Traderjill]

You said putting the keys in the shop would take something away from the game. This could only refer to players who have not done the quests before, which would, at this point, only apply to new players.

Ok, false assumption. There are plenty of long-time players that don't bother with many of the key quests. I can think of at least a dozen folks off the top of my head that have played 5+ years and never done the scheol key on any of their toons. I can think of people that have played even longer and don't have the inferno key on any of their toons. I don't feel as if any newbie (newbie being someone that has not done the content) should be able to bypass it by getting a quest reward from the itemshop.

I pointed out that new players would not purchase these items

Says who?

and I also diverged from this by saying the majority of the items people complain about "taking away the experience of AO" would not actually do so as the primary purchasers would be people who have already experienced those things. This part was a more general comment to everyone.

If you're making a general comment that doesn't pertain to an individual.. perhaps don't do it right after you've quoted me?

If you feel that at least one character on an account should have done the key quests before then I see nothing particularly wrong with that, other than not everyone has all veteran linked accounts.

If that's the case, why'd you respond to my post at all. The post you quoted made it clear where I stood.

I just dislike it when people make assumptions about things that seem lacking in foresight or at least considering whether it really would or would not happen. What people say about these things does sound bad, but inaccuracies from generalizations are sadly a pet peeve of mine.

Not even sure what you're trying to say here or how this even applies to me at all, tbh.

In otherwords, you can usually ignore my comments, I just have an uncontrollable urge to play devil's advocate in a forum's situation because I am overly analytical

I don't mind analysis, but when someone's retort to my comment is based off of their own opinion based assumptions.. I just don't get how your opinion is more valid than mine.

[Arlancor]

I think they missed to make a neut applicatiton form... thats what I have been waiting for....

[Gatester]

Ok, false assumption. There are plenty of long-time players that don't bother with many of the key quests. I can think of at least a dozen folks off the top of my head that have played 5+ years and never done the scheol key on any of their toons. I can think of people that have played even longer and don't have the inferno key on any of their toons. I don't feel as if any newbie (newbie being someone that has not done the content) should be able to bypass it by getting a quest reward from the itemshop.

We have difference views on that content then. Consider this, you have players that do these quests because they enjoy the storyline, and therefore they do the quests while reading everything that is involved. You also have players who do these quest lines, read nothing, and skip through hundreds of pages of quest dialogue to quickly get the reward.

If players have already gone on through inferno and pande, have done a few garden key quests (typically nasc and adonis), and have never bothered with the quest information itself, I feel those players have already experienced as much of the content as they need to. I suppose there could be some reason for making someone who hates scheol and just wants the key to do their scheol questline actually do the quest first on a 220 alt who would get nothing from it, but does that not seem a bit much? Consider, how does a 220 benefit from doing the scheol garden key quest if he will not even read the questline?


As for the new player thing, consider whether any new player to anything would immediately try a new game and then spend $100's on items they have no idea could benefit them. I can remember when I was a new player, and nothing in the item shops would appeal to me because I have no experience with the content yet. This is the problem for that argument, people are attributing the boredom and motivations of veteran players onto new players as if they could feel the same way, and they would not.

I don't mind analysis, but when someone's retort to my comment is based off of their own opinion based assumptions.. I just don't get how your opinion is more valid than mine.

It's not, never has been. People that treat other's opinions as if they matter simply misunderstand the entire argumentative process. Besides, don't you enjoy an argument where people are more concrete in their stances

[Traderjill]

We have difference views on that content then. Consider this, you have players that do these quests because they enjoy the storyline, and therefore they do the quests while reading everything that is involved. You also have players who do these quest lines, read nothing, and skip through hundreds of pages of quest dialogue to quickly get the reward.

If players have already gone on through inferno and pande, have done a few garden key quests (typically nasc and adonis), and have never bothered with the quest information itself, I feel those players have already experienced as much of the content as they need to.

When I say "Not doing the content" I mean "Not done a specific key quest at least one time." that's the content I'm referring to and thought we were discussing back and forth. Pardon me for not clarifying upfront when I used the term content. Someone that has traveled Elysium has done content in that zone. But if they haven't done the Elysium key quest then they haven't completed that (key quest) content.

As for the new player thing, consider whether any new player to anything would immediately try a new game and then spend $100's on items they have no idea could benefit them.

I can think of at least 5 new players (folks that played the game for less than a year) that I've met in the past 6 months that confessed to me that they bought credits from third party websites to get services and items in game. I am not attributing vet boredom with new players. That is a false assumption on your end. I am simply going by things that newer players have told me (and/or I've witnessed) in-game. I'm not, by any means, saying that 5 people are the norm. Honestly, I have no way of knowing what the norm is as I haven't run any sort of poll and doubt that every newbie buying their way through the game with their credit card would even fess up to it. I will say that 5 newer people telling me that they broke the EULA and bought credits so they could pay for items/services in game is a lot in my opinion. I can think of one person, in particular, that was brand new and having a lot of trouble getting through the game. This player used their credit card to buy credits then used those credits to pay other players to run them through content and to get the top end gear (some of which wasn't even stuff they needed, tbh). Some of the services they bought included everything from the pen key quest to Inner Sanctum to lootrights on dreadloch and xan gear. I actually encountered this particular person because they were spamming OOC and Shopping channel looking to pay someone 100m for help getting a perma pass in Inner Sanctum and a MoTR. After chatting them up in OOC it became clear that this was a new player and privately I started advising them on a different way to approach gearing up their toon.

So again, while I can understand why you assumed some of the things you did... they don't apply to the reasoning behind why I am against Funcom selling quest rewards to people that haven't done the quest (at all).

Edit: Just read this in another thread regarding the SL garden keys:

Oh okay. The char I bought it on was 131. So it spawned. In all my years playing AO, I've always played low level content. So I've never been to Adonis. 131 is my highest char ever. So I was hoping to finally get there.. Ah well. A couple months, and I'll be there.. LOL. Thanks for the info..

I agree level reqs should be in the item description.

And the above is what I'm talking about. A person that claims to have played for years that has never made it to Adonis and purchased a key from the item store because somehow they haven't been able to make it there otherwise? I don't know this person's personal situation, but the way their statement is worded "...I was hoping to finally get there." it sounds like they (for whatever reason) haven't managed to make it to Adonis and was hoping to use the garden key to bypass the process of making it there the normal way. If that is the case (because I admittedly am working on hypotheticals here since I don't know the player), I can tell you that I don't feel that someone that can't make it to Adonis should just be able to spawn a key and get there. If you can't get there.. then you aren't ready (from the standpoint of being able to navigate the game and play your toon) to be there in my opinion.

[Kuyt]

FC went WAY to far. a fkings 50% xp buff nano? and 19% for crat and advy??? all garden keys.

RIP Anarchy online. been funn aslong as it lasted

remember that the XP buffs doesnt stack any more. So the amount you can get is the same, they just spread it out over several professions to make it easier for everyone. Not a bad thing imo. First time i've ever heard someone dooming a game over making it a tad bit faster to level. As for the garden keys i couldnt care less about it. THey have a level req so you won't get the inf key for example before 201. Who cares if they did the mind numbingly boring quest for it or they drew a credit card to get it. It's a convenience item for the most part(minor twinking usage) and as such not a big deal.

[Liwa]

I think they missed to make a neut applicatiton form... thats what I have been waiting for....

I think I saw somewhere that the neutral form is being worked on for next patch maybe?

Kinnik

[phybrizo]

add +xxxxxxxxxxcredits packs in store at least we'll send money to fc and not to chineses.

and make a choice FC please : free to play or not free to play.
but don't sell usefull items/boosts for real money AND ask us to pay to play.

tokens were already "too much", as far i remember FC PROMISED to NEVER sell anything with boost abilities (or maybe token boards arent a boost ?).

i can understand social stuff, nano cans with low population, xp stims.. well why the hell did you made these nodrop while you let breed/gender change yesdrop...
another way to allow players to buy ingame credits with real money ?

come on, stop being hypocrits, sell credits in store... 20 or 30$ for a billion, in 2 month you'll buy a yacht.

[Gatester]

When I say "Not doing the content" I mean "Not done a specific key quest at least one time." that's the content I'm referring to and thought we were discussing back and forth. Pardon me for not clarifying upfront when I used the term content. Someone that has traveled Elysium has done content in that zone. But if they haven't done the Elysium key quest then they haven't completed that (key quest) content.




I can think of at least 5 new players (folks that played the game for less than a year) that I've met in the past 6 months that confessed to me that they bought credits from third party websites to get services and items in game. I am not attributing vet boredom with new players. That is a false assumption on your end. I am simply going by things that newer players have told me (and/or I've witnessed) in-game. I'm not, by any means, saying that 5 people are the norm. Honestly, I have no way of knowing what the norm is as I haven't run any sort of poll and doubt that every newbie buying their way through the game with their credit card would even fess up to it. I will say that 5 newer people telling me that they broke the EULA and bought credits so they could pay for items/services in game is a lot in my opinion. I can think of one person, in particular, that was brand new and having a lot of trouble getting through the game. This player used their credit card to buy credits then used those credits to pay other players to run them through content and to get the top end gear (some of which wasn't even stuff they needed, tbh). Some of the services they bought included everything from the pen key quest to Inner Sanctum to lootrights on dreadloch and xan gear. I actually encountered this particular person because they were spamming OOC and Shopping channel looking to pay someone 100m for help getting a perma pass in Inner Sanctum and a MoTR. After chatting them up in OOC it became clear that this was a new player and privately I started advising them on a different way to approach gearing up their toon.

So again, while I can understand why you assumed some of the things you did... they don't apply to the reasoning behind why I am against Funcom selling quest rewards to people that haven't done the quest (at all).

Edit: Just read this in another thread regarding the SL garden keys:



And the above is what I'm talking about. A person that claims to have played for years that has never made it to Adonis and purchased a key from the item store because somehow they haven't been able to make it there otherwise? I don't know this person's personal situation, but the way their statement is worded "...I was hoping to finally get there." it sounds like they (for whatever reason) haven't managed to make it to Adonis and was hoping to use the garden key to bypass the process of making it there the normal way. If that is the case (because I admittedly am working on hypotheticals here since I don't know the player), I can tell you that I don't feel that someone that can't make it to Adonis should just be able to spawn a key and get there. If you can't get there.. then you aren't ready (from the standpoint of being able to navigate the game and play your toon) to be there in my opinion.

My experience is probably a poor example for my own argument then, you seem to have encountered enough instances to counter my own theory

[Venachar]

Removed a few unconstructive posts. Bear in mind, please, these forums are here as an outlet, but use them properly. I don't agree with everything in AO always either - but 'ao is death, death' isn't helpful. If you're going to raise hell, do it constructively so that something might actually come out of your issue.

[Psikie]

THey have a level req so you won't get the inf key for example before 201. Who cares if they did the mind numbingly boring quest for it or they drew a credit card to get it. It's a convenience item for the most part(minor twinking usage) and as such not a big deal.

I can tell you that I don't feel that someone that can't make it to Adonis should just be able to spawn a key and get there. If you can't get there.. then you aren't ready (from the standpoint of being able to navigate the game and play your toon) to be there in my opinion.

I am of 2 minds on this one...part of me doesn't care that I will have extras noob meat shields that can be sacrificed at gauntlet or collector. The other part of me knows that if a player can't make it past sheol ergo....well you definately won't be any help for anything beyond sheol and probably shouldnt be there.

As far as pay for power...again it's 2 opinions. One i don't think you should be able to buy power you can't earn yourself. It's almost a slap in the face for the vets that "earned" it the hard way. On the other hand it does allow some parity to new players to catch up to those same stuck up a$$ vets that don't bother running raids anymore for new players lol. If the vet community wasn't so self-centered and actually made an effort to not just think of themselves and keep the game alive then those pay options probably would never have been implemented or needed. Think about that...if there were daily raids in pande/keys/faction etc who would actually pay FC for those items with real $$$ when you can get them for free daily? Just a thought. Granted population has an effect of course, but the logic is still the same. Who would pay for in game stuff if they knew they could get it every Monday or Tuesday?

So overall I think we have reaped what we have sown and this is just the begining. Already SL maps, instant grid, instant bank, instant GMS, nothing would surprise me at this point. 20$ US for full ql300 combined would not shock me.

[Peevesmp]

If it means that AO can exist for another few years, so be it.

Personally though as someone that no longer plays, but is planning on returning, I wince every time I see stuff like this added.

One question about the keys though, does this mean that people are going to be able to buy an inf key for their low level twink and basically pay to get a Novictum ring hilariously easy?

[Borsky]

Well my thread was deleted, typical company so ashamed of their actions they don't even want them pointed out....but heckler juice is in game....now that this game is on the same level as a pay-to-win MMO, when will we stop having to pay subscription fees?

need to clean house with AO devs before they just put 220 toons in item store and put the final nail in the coffin.

[Ilaliya]

Well my thread was deleted, typical company so ashamed of their actions they don't even want them pointed out....but heckler juice is in game....now that this game is on the same level as a pay-to-win MMO, when will we stop having to pay subscription fees?

need to clean house with AO devs before they just put 220 toons in item store and put the final nail in the coffin.

First off the thread was deleted because I try not to post on severely nonconstructive threads, so I sent it to Anarrina who nuked it. It's nothing personal, but in general I don't think threads/posts about how the dev team is trying to somehow destroy the game is very helpful.

As to the Heckler Juice, couple of points here...

1. There is a very big warning on the item description that the Heckler Juice comes with no gear/creds. So new players aren't going to pick this up.
2. Heckler Juice can only take you as far as 200, so you can't get to 220 with it. So we're not offering anything close to max level.
3. Plenty of vets have alts that they want to see at 200 and beyond, but frankly don't have the motivation to level yet another character because they've done it so much. So what do they do instead...
4. ...they buy a 3rd party levelling service. Which causes customer service issues because it seriously puts accounts at risk for being hacked. 3rd party levelling services aren't safe, but people use them because we offer no alternative. This is the alternative.

So we priced the Heckler Juice at a couple dollars less than you would pay with a 3rd party. Because we don't want to incentivize the behavior, but it's something that players are already doing, and if they are going to buy this service we'd rather they do it through us.

Again, we're talking about vets that just want to play their alts in the 200s. The alternative is them going to a 3rd party, or not playing AO. So, we're offering this service to meet the demand because someone else already is. There's no coffins and no nails going on here.

[Ekarona]

I do love the "micro" transaction pricing...

[Lazy]

So we priced the Heckler Juice at a couple dollars less than you would pay with a 3rd party.

just did a quick google search. are you seriously suggesting that heck juice will be "a few dollars less" than € 363.06 for 1-200? because i certainly hope it's a few dollars less than a few dollars less than that, if you know what i mean :P

[Traderjill]

I'm just wondering what game you guys are playing where it's the norm, and not the exception, for a veteran player to give away their account information to a 3rd party site to level up to 200???

Every vet I know just powerlevels their own toon or pays someone in-game credits to do it. I'd be really shocked to hear that a decent portion of the veteran community is compromising their accounts by giving away their login/password info to a 3rd party leveling service.

[drainbamage]

Hostile as he is, I agree with Kopecz. This is pretty sad; it's a blatant cash grab and the excuse (evil black market levelers!) is weak.

You should be fixing the unfun leveling experience, not trying to sell us ways around it.
If levels-from-nothing are going to exist, then at least take a page from Blizzard's book and tie them to promotional offers that help bring in (or bring back) players.

just did a quick google search. are you seriously suggesting that heck juice will be "a few dollars less" than € 363.06 for 1-200? because i certainly hope it's a few dollars less than a few dollars less than that, if you know what i mean :P

150 -> 200 heckler juice is 24000 points, or $200.

[Ilaliya]

Every vet I know just powerlevels their own toon or pays someone in-game credits to do it. I'd be really shocked to hear that a decent portion of the veteran community is compromising their accounts by giving away their login/password info to a 3rd party leveling service.

I wouldn't say it's a "decent portion" but it happens enough to be on our radar. The goal of these items is just to undercut that market. We'd probably sell a lot more if we dropped the price, but these are highly targeted items looking pretty much to capture players who are already going this route via external sites.

[Awikun]

[edited by Anarrina for a very inappropriate comment]
It is just sad ....

[Tradeher]

i don't see these juices in itemshop?