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Thread: Disharmony

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NayNay9 View Post
    While other professions benefited from the changes, looks like MA are soon to be nerfed...twice.

    It's a huge let down for the MA profession, less dps and heals.

    FC what where you thinking? oh thats right...you weren't.


    Yeah, youre right. Why dont the other profs get a nerf too? i understand the healing proc was a bit too much, but on the dmg side it was ok. Yet other porfs get the same boost, and they dont get nerfed?

  2. #22
    Yea, I know, was just kidding about Angevil(even tho he's a machine!).
    If I make a team and I need DD, I have to admit, MAs are among the last profs I think about. I'd take a shade/NT/crat/engi over a MA any day.
    The dmg thing about Disharmony upped MAs damage a bit and they were starting to become more desirable in teams but the healing part was too OP, you have to admit that.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    My vote is that the proc damage stays AS IS, the proc chance stays AS IS, and the healing recieved percentage drops from 130% to 60%.

    This way, the line remains still effective as a damage adding perkline, provides SOME heals, but not a significant source, and still will enable a ranged setup or NR setup by retaining some moderate healing capability.

    By dropping the healed percentage to 60%, the MA will in PVM proc roughly 1000 damage, and heal 600 (not that bad of a boost), In PVP in standard setup will proc about 500-600 damage and heal for 340, and in NR will proc about 400 and heal for 240.
    I liked this idea (dropping 130% to 60%). Currently Disharmony heals way too much but when it is "fixed" it will be worse that it was before 18.5.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilaliya View Post
    Letter From the Game Director - June 2012

    • The MA proc Disharmony will be converted from a drain proc to a heal proc. After reviewing this particular perk action we feel that it needs to see some changes in the next update as the changes done to perks and proc damage being affected by Damage Modifiers, really lifted the MA's ability far more than we anticipated.


    Kindly,
    Fia “Lindelu” Tjernberg
    I think it is strange they couldn't anticipate that [240+220 (+dmg from Disharmony line itself) +300 - +600 (other easy +dmg modifiers from buffs, items, ...)]*130% = +988 - +1378 heal (or whatever it might be) would result too powerful heal. I don't mind if Disharmony gets fixed.. actually I hope it gets fixed.. but "fixing" shouldn't give us worse Disharmony that it was before because one of those things FC wanted to give us with 18.5 patch was adding +dmg to perks/nanos (which also resulted some "fixes" on items that gave %nano dmg modifier) and taking all that added damage, or actually even more because they will remove original 240 proc dmg too, away sounds quite sad.

    If we think about original 240 proc damage then it might have given us ~3600 dmg per minute (with 1/1 times its possible to do 60/2 = 30 hits per minute, with 50% chance this gives us 15*240 = 3600 dmg). Not sure how many perk actions other players have but I'm actively using 5 perk actions (Flesh Quiver, Chi Conductor, Tremor Hand, Dragonfire and Feel) that can do direct damage (not counting Obliterate due to it's limitations) and have about 420-450 +dmg. I Also have Karmic Fist, Upon a Wave of Summer and Tree of Enlightenment that are also affected by +dmg.
    Average recharge time for these is (60+105+60+65+65+33+38+82)/(5+3) = 63.5 seconds (with %skill lock modifier and if perks attack times aren't counted). Basically this means I'm able to to use all 8x once in a minute (on average) resulting 8x (+ 420 - +450) = +3360 - +3600 damage. Compared to Disharmony proc dmg prior 18.5 patch (+3600 dmg in a minute) this seems to be less (or same) and requires more attention on activating perk actions & MA attacks.

    If I'm not mistaken then "fixed" Disharmony proc heal should be 300 points (10 perks in line) with 50% chance. In a minute this would mean 300*(60/2 * 50%) = 4500 heal compared to prior 18.5 patch (240*130%)*(60/2 * 50%) = 4680 heal which is 180 points less.
    Mizufluffy (220/30/??) MA # Hopeasaukko (216/27/??) NT # Mustarotta (100/10/28) Crat
    Mustarotta's Foreman (Biomare) Service for Hire (unavailable)
    Some of my froobs on RK2: Neuzoire, Denzyr, Hinami, Hinachan, Zetblanc, Dalanope, Chenin, Reandway (I'm more active on characters with yellow name)

  4. #24
    To clarify, disharmony on test (atm) is once again junk and heals for 300 points, it's also not affected by +damage mods.

    It rubs me and the rest of the ma's the wrong way when you first make the perkline it good, the take it all away, to say the least.
    Last edited by nanoforcer; Jul 18th, 2012 at 14:45:29.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  5. #25
    Martial Artist:

    When it comes to dishing out raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions. Fighting unarmed, the Martial Artist's main strength lies in special attacks, knowing how to cripple opponents by attacking their weak spots. The Martial Artist is also a very proficient healer, truly surpassed by only the Doctor and the Adventurer.

    Does the above description have any bases in truth?

    Specifically:
    (When it comes to dishing out raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions)

    Or is it all lies by FC?

    Or maybe I'm just a fail player and i don't understand how to play my MA to do more raw damage then all other professions.

  6. #26
    It's not lies, it's the description that used to be true 11 years ago. You can't really expect them to change those descriptions every time someone jumps on the DD wagon, like crats did.
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  7. #27
    Not sure if this is just wishful thinking but over the years we have seen some information suggesting that MA's should fill the role of healing in a more significant capacity. I see this kind of change inline with that approach. It's not going to make any sense to give MA's strong, passive DD capabilities if that's the case.

    Just another case of people not seeing the bigger picture here.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Not sure if this is just wishful thinking but over the years we have seen some information suggesting that MA's should fill the role of healing in a more significant capacity. I see this kind of change inline with that approach. It's not going to make any sense to give MA's strong, passive DD capabilities if that's the case.

    Just another case of people not seeing the bigger picture here.

    Yeah. Sure makes sense to nerf the dmg output and selfheals of the line to a point where it's worse then before the Dmg Patch for everyone.
    I clearly fail to see how this makes the worst healing of the "healing professions" more desirable in the big picture.

    If they would improve ma healing at the same time, maybe it would make sense but uh.. maybe they'll work on ma nanos again next year.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  9. #29
    Wow so they nerfed it to the point where it wasnt even as useful before they upped it? Lol guess its back to brawler perks for me and genius

  10. #30
    Nobody said the healing wasnt a bit much. We said just heal for 60% of the damage caused. The additional damage from the disharmony perk that hits 50% is still very much needed. I dont see how FC can be so slow. I highly doubt they even play the game anymore.

  11. #31
    after afk soloing mantis queen on my 170ish ma selfbuffed i'd have to quote Ms stefani in saying this poop is bananas.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    after afk soloing mantis queen on my 170ish ma selfbuffed i'd have to quote Ms stefani in saying this poop is bananas.
    i did that pre patch tho, but the healing needs a nerf not the damage

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    I clearly fail to see how this makes the worst healing of the "healing professions" more desirable in the big picture.

    If they would improve ma healing at the same time, maybe it would make sense but uh.. maybe they'll work on ma nanos again next year.
    Agreed, but FC is taking the system changes a few at a time instead of one big patch. That's just one of the drawbacks of the this approach.

    I personally think Disharmony is a lazy and not fun way to implement heals or damage for MA's. I always hated the way I spent 10 perks into anything and got some passive, behind the scenes affect from it. That's not very interactive gameplay IMO. I'm glad they nerfed it even though it was awesome ... it gives some breathing room for FC to introduce something else more fun and less lazy, be it heals or damage.

    This won't be the first profession to take a step back to take two forward but the system needs to be deconstructed before it can be rebuilt. It's simply how the complex interactions between all the effects play out.
    Last edited by Obtena; Jul 18th, 2012 at 18:33:39.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Keepjoe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    after afk soloing mantis queen on my 170ish ma selfbuffed i'd have to quote Ms stefani in saying this poop is bananas.
    i did that pre patch tho, but the healing needs a nerf not the damage
    My MA once did it at level 160 (probably about ~11 months ago) and without twinked gear. It was mostly because of luck, he was very very very close to death (health somewhere around 50-250 I think) at least twice during whole fight and it took a very long time. Unfortunately didn't get video of it (actually I was quite sure it was going to be suicide so didn't prepare taking video beforehand and after it decided to level up because was quite sure I couldn't do it again, at least not without enough %luck modifier).
    Well, I gotta admit that I didn't afk during that fight but it was self buffed. And quite fun too.
    Mizufluffy (220/30/??) MA # Hopeasaukko (216/27/??) NT # Mustarotta (100/10/28) Crat
    Mustarotta's Foreman (Biomare) Service for Hire (unavailable)
    Some of my froobs on RK2: Neuzoire, Denzyr, Hinami, Hinachan, Zetblanc, Dalanope, Chenin, Reandway (I'm more active on characters with yellow name)

  15. #35
    yea, pre-buff it got pretty hairy at times (popping temple pad, swapping in def gear, playing with the agg-def slider, etc) post buff, i just set the bar so that i hit at 1/1/1, put on some +dmg gear and went to get coffee

  16. #36
    Everyone agrees that the healing part of disharmony was over the top.

    But the one thing the add dmg patch did for us was it made dmg setups viable, and, furthermore, for the first time in YEARS, made a non-hotswap MA remotely competitive in PVP...

    I've been full disharmony+dual shens for something like 1.5 years now, and, when I heard about the damage proc on it I logged in on MA for the first time other than to just solo a raid in a long time.

    I PVP'd MA's, engis, NT's, Enfs, Advies and fixers while disharmony was broken.

    I won about 80% vs advies, 100% vs fixer, 0% vs enf, 0% vs NT, 0% vs engis and about 50% vs MA.

    Go figure. I got a lot of experience doign PVP on MA, and tbh, it's kinda insulting that this fix just went ahead without community consultation.

    At the VERY least, FC should have tried to figure out what was needed more: damage or healing, and then tried to make balance of whatever the result of the consultation was.

  17. #37
    Obtena, why don't you try locking yourself in a closet and staying there until someone comes to find you?

    This isn't a blowing sunshine up FC's Ass thread. It's a gripe about lack of foresight.

    Are you so jaded about the game processes that you think "two steps forward" will actually occur on a timeline sufficient that people who actually PLAY their chars will get some benefit out of it before they deactivate or kill that toon in frustration?

    Have you even played MA recently?

    Disharmony was a vital part of the MA's PVM solo/ raiding setup. MA's were hurting for raw damage dealign capability prior to the add dmg patch, and we just got nerfed. And so did the healing.

    I'll tell you something, thats two steps back 1. dmg nerf 2. healing nerf

    So now, DD profs like shade take about 6 steps forward, enforcers who aren't supposed to be DD profs take about 8 steps forward, and MA's take two steps back. Thats fantastic, the dps gained by enforcers and shades probably completely offsets the gain in having an MA in team over having an AFK shield MP.

    you bring nothing constructive to the table. FC has not shown us in ANY sense of temporal relevance that they are capable of taking a step back to make two steps forward.

    What FC has shown us is that they are capable of making blanket changes that have not been thought through fully, and when something benefits a non-lovechild prof, there is a nerf waiting in the next patch.

    I didn't see any nerfs for advies when it was foudn out a day after the 80% pistol perk check that they needed a nerf. Hell, it's been 3-4 years now and they still are able to run a fully defensive setup while perking evade profs through limber. I saw them take about 5 steps forward with the troa'ler availability, then another about 16 steps forward with the 80% pistol perk checks. You know what MA's got around then?

    They got another nerf. Another nerf. FC decided RI shouldn't stack with the orange buff. So, MA's have been getting nerfed for a while now, continuously and ya, so, if your theory is correct, FC must be walking backwards to take a running f*ckign leap off the cliff they are flirting with or they are going to give MA's TMS and a insta cast CH and a proc to give 600 AAO and 1000 Add dmg because thats about what MA's are due when you look at all the crap we've been dealt lately.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    It's a gripe about lack of foresight.
    That would be YOUR lack of foresight. I'm fairly certain FC knows what they want to do. Unless you're aware of the other incoming changes, you can't really say how all this one fits in with the end picture. Actually, I don't think anyone but FC does right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    you bring nothing constructive to the table. FC has not shown us in ANY sense of temporal relevance that they are capable of taking a step back to make two steps forward.
    I guess I should be making more threads like this one then AMIRITE? ... the only problem here is that you aren't aware. Are rage threads going to get them to show us what they have planned? I'm betting no. I'm also betting there isn't much that anyone can do to see what the plans are either ... besides speaking with your money.
    Last edited by Obtena; Jul 19th, 2012 at 02:12:45.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    That would be YOUR lack of foresight. Unless you're aware of the other incoming changes, you can't really say how all this one fits in with the end picture. Actually, I don't think anyone but FC does right now.



    I guess I should be making more threads like this one then AMIRITE? ... the only problem here is that you aren't aware. Are rage threads going to get them to show us what they have planned? I'm betting no. I'm also betting there isn't much that anyone can do to see what the plans are either ... besides speaking with your money.
    Hahahahahah!

    you assume someone on their side HAS foresight!

    What a load of cockamimie. If you think someone on their side HAS foresight, show me some proof.

    As I recall, all the work for rebalancing has been shelved, and, the only "progress" made on it thats been reported is that it's no longer called "the rebalance" it's called "system changes". So, if you think that some progress has been made, why don't you check the monthly updates for historical evidence that there is PROGRESS. LOOL. You know what FC are doing? They make little stupid ducks, and Tshirts and put them in game to appease the 14 PVM'ers still playing and the other 2 seasonal AO junkies who resub for a month every time theres some new stupid collector social item so they can go to the next Grind party and /disco in game with their epic new social and pretend their rotting PBKaC corpses actually have a life.

    But guess what?

    Even IF there was some anecdotal evidence that FC HAD made some progress on "the rebalance" or "systemic changes", there's been exactly ZERO indication that thus far the FC devs have any idea which profs need help. Care to refute that?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    Even IF there was some anecdotal evidence that FC HAD made some progress on "the rebalance" or "systemic changes", there's been exactly ZERO indication that thus far the FC devs have any idea which profs need help. Care to refute that?
    Sure, you're assuming they are addressing profs 'that needs help' first. That's not necessarily the case. It would be nice admittedly but that's obviously not their approach.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

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