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Thread: Disharmony

  1. #1


    Ok, it's fairly obvious based on some comments from Illya in place of lindelu that there's some pretty big boosting to the damage and healing that this line does for the fully perked Disharmony MA.

    It's apparent that the benefit outweighs what the Dev's were hoping to achieve (or, it went unnoticed during the though process of adding damage to perks+procs).

    First off, I'd like to point out a couple of things, to tone down the fuss over it.

    1. MA's using dual shens/tonfas are the ones getting the big benefit out of this dmg to proc change.

    2. MA's using shens/tonfa's were never (NEVER) competitive in PVP until this change.

    3. MA's are still extremely weak against alphas (healing over time does F-all vs 20k damage in 3-4 seconds)

    4. MA's perked fully into disharmony have no stun resist, no root/snare resist, and thus are extremely susceptible to kiting, CC's, snares/roots and any kind of movement impairment that results in the MA being out of range

    5. ANY time the MA is out of range of his opponent, the MA gets exactly ZERO benefit of disharmony.

    6. Any init debuff is going to throw ALL capability to kill or survive using disharmony as a method to fulfill those actions out the window.

    Hence, the point is that if for a moment, you think a real opponent is going to stand there and let the MA heal drain him over and over in order to achieve unblockable hits and heals, then you're sorely mistaken.

    MA's using this capability are still hogtied by range, and therefore the setup is still useless in PVP.

    Sure, it makes soloing a bit easier, or whatever, but it's not that big of a deal - so lets tone down the hullabaloo over it, and lets try to be constructive.

    Here's what I think we should do:

    Lets brainstorm and try to come up with a valid perkline - because, simply put, the perk actions and the benefit of the perkline the way the devs have described it, is absolute hogwash. It's garbage. No MA in PVP or PVM will ever perk it.

    It's current set to do 50% proc chance to HEAL ONLY 300 HP at 220.

    The entire use of the perkline has been, traditionally to ADD proc damage to the MA's repertoire - the healing was meh, it really doesn't help a lot, and MA's have a reasonable amount of heals if they want to chain it moK or whatever.

    Now, the problem gets tricky, because, disharmony was one of the only SL perklines to help when an MA went ranged, and, aided greatly with healing under NR setup.

    With losing damage as melee and ranged, and with a healing nerf, it's less desireable overall. [Note: As it stands currently, this perkline has, in effect, made ranged setups possible in one fell swoop - healing on 4-5 hits procs per minute has made keeping HP up under attack a possiblity - but obviously, has made PVE easy mode, except when facing hard hitters like 12man xan boss or whatever who hits for 90% of an MA's HP in one shot]

    So, I suggest we try to find a comparable action/proc that benefits the MA in both setups, but doesn't overpower them.

    My vote is that the proc damage stays AS IS, the proc chance stays AS IS, and the healing recieved percentage drops from 130% to 60%.

    This way, the line remains still effective as a damage adding perkline, provides SOME heals, but not a significant source, and still will enable a ranged setup or NR setup by retaining some moderate healing capability.

    By dropping the healed percentage to 60%, the MA will in PVM proc roughly 1000 damage, and heal 600 (not that bad of a boost), In PVP in standard setup will proc about 500-600 damage and heal for 340, and in NR will proc about 400 and heal for 240.

    (Edit: the numbers are too low still for benefit in PVP (and ranged and NR), and need to be raised slightly... maybe the answer is to reduce the heal recharge on the perk action heal on perk 6 of the line?)
    Last edited by McKnuckleSamwich; Jul 13th, 2012 at 00:33:44. Reason: still useless in PVP is afterthought

  2. #2
    The MA proc Disharmony has been converted from a drain proc to a heal proc.
    After reviewing this particular perk action we feel that it needs to see some changes in the next update as the changes done to perks and proc damage being affected by Damage Modifiers, really lifted the MA's ability far more than we anticipated.
    The healing part of the proc will remain and even be boosted a little, but it will no longer cause damage. We however feel like the MA has received a lot of attention from their damage modifiers affecting their perks and this should be making up for the loss of the small drain damage.
    From test live patch notes.
    Dat Nanomage posterior

  3. #3
    exactly my point.

    That "fix" has ruined the perkline.

    While it was a moderately effective method to produce a bit of extra damage prior to the add dmg patch, it became a very effective way to produce extra damage after the add dmg patch.

    It ALSO produced the unintended effect of becoming the greatest source of healing for an MA using a triple wield set up.

    What I'm saying is, they are completely screwing over the perkline. The POINT of disharmony is to INCREASE an MA's damage capability. they are making it into a half assed heal line that MA's can't use!

    So, brainstorm, and help the Dev's sort it out.

    I don't want the Dev's to **** all over MA's again. We saw that a few years ago when they removed the stacking effect of the 180 evade and RI. So, the last few years have resulted in MA's getting all of diddly squat in terms of useful toolset additions.

    And, Just an FYI to the Dev's, MA's gain about 20% increase in damage from perks. Whatever our add damage is, high or low, is going to be only 20% as effective compared to classes like enforcers or shades who get probably close to 50-80% of their damage from perks.

    If you look at damage from perks from MA's we're looking at 1 hit out of 65 seconds of normals+brawls.

    Over 65 seconds, MA's get 3 AI attack perks (1+1+0.5+0.5), dragonfire, tremor hand, flesh quiver and chi conductor (obliterate is really never useful unless fighting a boss so I can't include it)

    so, 8 perk attacks every 65 seconds.
    lets say on average you can hit for 4k per perk (pretty accurate for endgame MA)
    Thats 8*4k/65 seconds ~ 500 DPS

    500 DPS lol. ok 20% was an overstatement.

    Now, lets say a MA is producing 180k damage per minute ( thats 3000 dps) which is a fairly low estimate. In this case, the perks are only producing 16% of total damage.

    but any decent MA will tell you that 180k DPM is pretty piss poor. Hence, an MA really gains a puny puny real damage gain from damage adding to perks.

    compare that to an Enforcer who has 3 AI perks, and 8 damage perks per 65 seconds, with lower overall weapon damage, and you can quickly see that the relative gain is very significant.

    The point is, is that if the dev's somehow thought that one of the most neglected TRUE DPS classes "got enough" gain from the add damage patch, they are falling out of the tree dumb.

    MA's got diddly effing squat compared to shade on this patch in terms of real DPS realised. (taking into account disharmony's CURRENT state, MA's gained a similar amount as shades, but the removal of the proc damage will mean MA's got about as much as MPs, traders and doctors).

    Considering we're supposed to be "best at dishing out raw damage" (it says so on the char creation screen) we're getting as close to the biggest blackest shaft you can imagine if they are trying to keep MA's remotely competitive.

    Basically, this add dmg patch (after the proposed disharmony "fix") if you didn't roll shade or enf, you got hosed.

  4. #4

    funcom clueless

    Funcom is clueless when it comes to MA's. Disharmony was a useless perkline until this patch and now there probably going to nerf it to hell and make me untrain it again, I love your idea about keeping the damage and 60% heal of that damage. We already as it is hardly benefit to the +nano damage to perks because we have so few perks. And now they want to remove the damage when its really needed to help us with DPS which we so much need.

  5. #5
    I've sent Lindelu a direct message about it, but I'm not sure it hasn't fallen on deaf ears.

    With active populations what it is right now, I'd say we'de be hard pressed to find a 'professional' to petition the change.

  6. #6
    The boost to Disharmony that came with the patch was likely unintended. However the response to it by FC baffles me. All I can picture is a dev running through the office yelling omgwtf. Ok, the bump to healing I can see toning down, but the bump to damage fits right in line with what an MA is meant to do. This thread has the best solution. Leave the damage and back off the healing.

    I had started leveling my MA from the 150 I left him sitting at just before the patch. When the patch went live I looked at the numbers and smiled for about 2 seconds before the sense of impending doom hit me. I knew it was too good to last but FC's proposed "fix" was worse than I had imagined.

    I guess what I would like to know is what part of the change doesn't fit with FC's vision of the MA? Healing? Yes that was a little much. Damage? Are the channels suddenly being spammed with team lf MA only? Have we suddenly started to OD everything in sight? Nope, not so much of that. I would hope that what seems to be a kneejerk response from FC is given a little more thought and that this perkline won't be nerfed into uselessness.

  7. #7
    F-all does 20k damage in 3-4 seconds to a PVP MA.

    Just sayin'
    You gained 96 PVP Solo Score.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post

  8. #8
    Agreed, I started playing my MAs again after I heard Disharmony was working. It's been fun. If they nerf the heck out of it again I will seriously wonder what FC has against MAs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorathon View Post
    Wouldn't it be better if all the attributes were combined into one skill called "goodness?"

  9. #9
    10 perks for 200 dmg, and a proc is not good enough.
    To be honest the healing is a bit too much, 1.4k-1.7k 50% of the time.
    But the damage is a much needed boost, Pretty much makes every add damge point you get 125% effective.

    Now a lifedrain is more of a shades thing. We need to come out with a new more creative perkline/proc for disharmony. Lets take this chance, now that the devs eyes are upon us (wich doesnt happen often) to come up with new ideas.

    Perhaps maybe make the proc "tick" only when we crit? make it have a small init debuff that stacks. Whatever you can come up with

    Samwich suggestion is good too.

  10. #10
    I'd say make the heal and damage separate components of the line.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
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  11. #11
    I was also thinking that it should do a unremovable 2 second root so it would actually make playing a prof with a 2m range possible in PVP.

    It's pretty stupid what FC thinks up sometimes, while I agree it does need a nerf, what they are planning just makes me want to re-quit.

  12. #12
    Or if they do remove the add damage atleast give us 3-4 more high DD perks to compensate with the loss of Damage which was a great unexpected edition. I dont see how the Devs could look at the added damage and say its bad for MA's? The healing yes its to much, the damage? No

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Keepjoe View Post
    Or if they do remove the add damage atleast give us 3-4 more high DD perks to compensate with the loss of Damage which was a great unexpected edition. I dont see how the Devs could look at the added damage and say its bad for MA's? The healing yes its to much, the damage? No
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  14. #14

    Feeling kinda ragey

    So, anyone else just wondering why MA's just got a facefull of nerfhammer?

    1. DPS just got dropped
    2. healing just got dropped


    Considering MA's are one of the most underplayed and underpowered profs in game right now, any of you other 3 MA's that still play wondering WTF just happened?

    Lindelu I find this to be a very, very shortsighted "fix" - bordering on insulting.

    There was clear evidence that MA's all felt that this was an unreasonable response to the add dmg to procs patch - we all agreed that the boost was significant, but, it wasn't so significant that MA's became all out invulnerable destroyers! MA's were, with this patch, COMPETITIVE without swaps - for the first time in 7 years.

    And, after this proposed patch, we are not only losing that ability to be competitive, we are losing our DPS setup, and we are getting a healing nerf.

  15. #15
    honestly , I have been waiting for it ... I do feel the same way you do, but I know it probably won't be changed back no matter how much we complain ... major disappointments on a lot of things lately.

  16. #16
    In other words: waaa, don't nerf my gimmick plz

    I don't play a MA but an always active 50% chance of dealing 1k damage and healing for 1.3k (lightly speaking; you can easily do a lot better than that with a damage setup) warrants some adjustment.

    On a side note, I've never met an advy or nt claim they're OP...seems legit.
    Dat Nanomage posterior

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Antagonist View Post
    In other words: waaa, don't nerf my gimmick plz

    I don't play a MA but an always active 50% chance of dealing 1k damage and healing for 1.3k (lightly speaking; you can easily do a lot better than that with a damage setup) warrants some adjustment.

    On a side note, I've never met an advy or nt claim they're OP...seems legit.
    hey... I never met a engi, doctor, crat or ranged advy that thought they were OP either.

    Heck, I've never even met an enforcer who thought he was OP'd.

    MA's get some love for 12 days.

    And then we get a nerf while every other prof gets a boost. F**king great.

    But, while we're on the topic, I DID mention that
    Quote Originally Posted by me
    we all agreed that the boost was significant, but, it wasn't so significant that MA's became all out invulnerable destroyers!
    so I am at least making the concession that it was a boost. But to come out of the boost with a nerf? Please! It's not like MA's are leading the scoreboards or winning 9/10 encounters with the enemy.

    The best played MA's right now are struggling to win 3/10 duels, and thats in a controlled encounter. Most MA's are losing EVERY uncontrolled encounter.

    I played in a BS a couple months ago and didn't win ONE fight - and I'm fully equipped with raid buffs and towers and RRFE - AND I'm veteran. I know every prof nearly inside out. But when MA's are losing every uncontrolled encounter, AND we get nerfed, you gotta wonder if FC has any respect for balance or if it's an internal agenda to sabotage the game - somehow hoping that if everyone leaves they can shut down the servers and dedicate more bandwidth to TSW or whatever.

  18. #18
    While other professions benefited from the changes, looks like MA are soon to be nerfed...twice.

    It's a huge let down for the MA profession, less dps and heals.

    FC what where you thinking? oh thats weren't.

  19. #19
    I wonder how Angevil still manages to own people 9 out of 10 times, post nerf. :-s
    Oh wait, he's the MA prof.

  20. #20
    MAs are strong in duels.
    Mass Pvp, nope
    Pvm desirability? shade/engi/crat/sold can still do better/equal dmg but still bring something more to the table.

    MA is just the "kinda good" profession on FCs mindset, doubt we are getting anything better than this.

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