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Thread: Add cash option to Dailies

  1. #1

    Add cash option to Dailies

    You go and talk to your local agency handler and say "I'm looking for a job."

    in my opinion, the convo path after that should go as follows:

    Agency Handler: Oh really?

    Option 1: Yeah, I could really use the experience.

    Option 2: Yeah, I could really use some cash.

    From there, you then get assigned your regular daily..

    A similar pathing could be done for the Elite daily, AI daily, John Smith, DOJA and SL Elite daily.

    This would allow people to make a choice... do dailies for xp, tokens, vp, axp reward or get cash instead.

    EDIT: I liked this idea that Lazy presented (quoted below) of allowing people to make a choice between the token reward part of the daily and cash via some sort of *cough* bounty *cough* item that they could either right click for tokens or hand in for some creds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    here's an interestion option to consider: what if the reward for a daily was an item that could either be handed in for 1 m or used for x tokens?
    Last edited by Traderjill; Mar 29th, 2012 at 19:10:11.
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  2. #2
    Normally you have great ideas Jill, but I dont like this one. It would just create a over inflated price market all over again like s10. If you have 8 toons you would easily make over 100m daily in under 2hrs per day. That would create billions of creds. Imagine the player prices then.

    WTS Concrete cushions 50m!!! Cheaper than GMS!!!
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Normally you have great ideas Jill, but I dont like this one. It would just create a over inflated price market all over again like s10. If you have 8 toons you would easily make over 100m daily in under 2hrs per day. That would create billions of creds. Imagine the player prices then.

    WTS Concrete cushions 50m!!! Cheaper than GMS!!!
    The market is already overinflated even without S10. CC goes for 700m A PIECE.

    S10 was farmable with no lockouts. Dailies are on an 18hr CD.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Normally you have great ideas Jill, but I dont like this one. It would just create a over inflated price market all over again like s10. If you have 8 toons you would easily make over 100m daily in under 2hrs per day. That would create billions of creds. Imagine the player prices then.

    WTS Concrete cushions 50m!!! Cheaper than GMS!!!
    Thanks for the compliment and I see what you're saying but....


    You're giving an example for someone with eight (8) level 220 toons. I used 3m/daily as a top end amount that would scale down similar to the way everything else scales based on level range.

    Also, I do not believe that someone would even be able to do all 7 dailies on a single toon in 2hrs. The truth is that 3 of the 7 (regular DOJA, Special DOJA and the SL Elite) alone could take who knows to get done. DOJA chip drops are so random and the SL Elite at 220 means either a run to pande to kill a zod or killing 3 inferno cata bosses. So if you drop it down to just 4 dailies per TL7 toon (Reg Daily, Elite Daily/Prisoner, AI Daily, John Smith tower tagging) then that's 12m/toon and it'll probably take you an hourish to get all 4 done when you count in travel time.

    Any 220 toon can earn more than 12m/hour doing quite a few other things so no idea why they'd waste their time farming dailies (with all of that running around) just for credits. If, however, their orgmates need help with a prisoner kill or they're about to go do Pande anyway.. then they can grab it and at least get some tangible 'reward' for the experience I guess.

    Now for somoene with a 150-200 toon.. at that level say they got 2m/daily... that's still a max of 14m per 18hrs. That's not excessive at all. That's like 3 bounties being handed in at the sacrifice of xp/tokens/vp/axp but at the same time in a week they'd have 100-115m and can maybe buy a couple upgrades of some sort while doing other things.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Mar 29th, 2012 at 19:02:29.
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  5. #5
    mmm... i like this one. i probably wouldn't bother doing dailies even if they did give free monies, but bamp nonetheless.

    here's an interestion option to consider: what if the reward for a daily was an item that could either be handed in for 1 m or used for x tokens?

  6. #6
    I like this idea. My biggest issue with S10 is that it was restricted to a certain level, a scaling method of earning credits that exists from start to end would be nice.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  7. #7
    I suppose I was thinking about myself, and knowing I'm not much a of a farmer or grinder. But I have on non raid nights done daily/ai daily/barkeep on all 5 of my 220's in under 2hrs. I still have some lvl 10 researches to finish off. Not something I could or would do everynight, but I could see how it could be abused just from my experience.

    That doesnt include doja or elite missions or the creds from looted bodies on top.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    CC goes for 700m A PIECE.
    I do hope you meant 700 K not M.
    Last time I saw Concrete Cushion's price it was 250-500K a pair.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I suppose I was thinking about myself, and knowing I'm not much a of a farmer or grinder. But I have on non raid nights done daily/ai daily/barkeep on all 5 of my 220's in under 2hrs. I still have some lvl 10 researches to finish off. Not something I could or would do everynight, but I could see how it could be abused just from my experience.

    That doesnt include doja or elite missions or the creds from looted bodies on top.
    Five 220's x 3 dailes = 15 dailies x 3m = 45m in 2hrs or less based off of your experience.

    Again, I'd say that anyone with a 220 toon can make more than 25m/hour doing other stuff so it still doesn't seem like something that's overly abusable. The only abuse that might happen would be from the exception folks that have 5 or 6 accounts full of 220 toons that they can multi-log and do a couple of the dailies (like the SL elite, RK elite at once). But you can't really build game dynamics around that type of exception and someone with that type of account setup doesn't need to farm credits off of dailies.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    I like this idea. My biggest issue with S10 is that it was restricted to a certain level, a scaling method of earning credits that exists from start to end would be nice.
    agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabey View Post
    I do hope you meant 700 K not M.
    Last time I saw Concrete Cushion's price it was 250-500K a pair.
    hehe ^^

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabey View Post
    I do hope you meant 700 K not M.
    Last time I saw Concrete Cushion's price it was 250-500K a pair.
    CC as in Combined Commandos I think.. the AI armor.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Five 220's x 3 dailes = 15 dailies x 3m = 45m in 2hrs or less based off of your experience.

    Again, I'd say that anyone with a 220 toon can make more than 25m/hour doing other stuff so it still doesn't seem like something that's overly abusable.
    I don't doubt your math, I dont doubt credit making potential of 220's through farming. What I would point out is that I don't know of a mechanic to actually make 25m per hour, perhaps if you spend 2 hours farming for a item you can sell for 50m you can use that equation. But that is farming, so it's hit or miss on drops AND hit or miss on finding a buyer. AND hit or miss on demand after you have farmed and flooded market for a week or 2. Adding money to dailies would be a steady stream of actual "NEW" daily credits. Thats what i would want to avoid is adding NEW ways to generate lumps of credits. Its too easy to find ways to manipulate that system.

    S10 bounties were meant as a way for new players to have some credits in big market and what happened was farmers found a way to break the system. I would think over time daily cash rewards would just "create" too much new money.
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  13. #13
    45m/18h is peanuts. especially considering you' need 5 220's to do that. people made more than that in an hour of s10 with 1 150 toon.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    I don't doubt your math, I dont doubt credit making potential of 220's through farming. What I would point out is that I don't know of a mechanic to actually make 25m per hour, perhaps if you spend 2 hours farming for a item you can sell for 50m you can use that equation. But that is farming, so it's hit or miss on drops AND hit or miss on finding a buyer. AND hit or miss on demand after you have farmed and flooded market for a week or 2. Adding money to dailies would be a steady stream of actual "NEW" daily credits. Thats what i would want to avoid is adding NEW ways to generate lumps of credits. Its too easy to find ways to manipulate that system.

    S10 bounties were meant as a way for new players to have some credits in big market and what happened was farmers found a way to break the system. I would think over time daily cash rewards would just "create" too much new money.
    I'm not sure what's wrong with generating credits for players when you pay 20m to do a perk reset after twinking, I paid 125m for a stack of 500 stims on my doc today.. city upkeep runs me about 150m/month for 2 cities and I bought some SL nanos for my advy for level 175 thru 210 210 and spent almost 100m. I'm a vet.. so no biggie... but the costs for things for new players can be high if they don't have a higher level main to support them. So they either have to buy stuff from others or go without. AO is full of items that you can wear at level X but must have a level X+40 level char to get it.
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  15. #15
    Perhaps I went about saying this the wrong way. More credits or credit making options is not what I think is needed. The game shouldnt revolve around commerce. For example.. in another thread somewhere I posted that ely-pen questlines where great in theory in that, you could gain usefull equipment to lvl with. Best example is ely giving you some Tier 1 parts, sheol giving some nanos, ado giving some Tier 2 parts, pen giving some nanos. If those questlines were expanded to reward more equipment a character can use at lvl appropriate times, it would in turn reduce market demand for credit cost items. People would be busy playing AO instead of...
    1. farming for credits
    2. to buy market items
    3. to equip toons
    4. to play AO.
    You would be playing to get your equipment as you lvl. Now take that theory and in addition to tier 1 parts, throw in sancroset/inamorata weapons, turn spirits, nodrop symbs (nodrop so it doesnt ruin pb market). Now i'm sure you can imagine how much more user friendly AO would be to a new player. You can still farm creds for AI or dailies for OFAB, but now you have alternative eqeuipment that isn't OP but is also not med suit/xp pistols/ql 100 imps.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  16. #16
    I got what you meant.. and in another thread I actually posted about this.. so no argument from me. But until they fix that problem.. the credits is a band-aid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Farming has a really negative connotation behind it. It is generally associated with you doing something over and over again (could be camping a mob or repeating the same content over and over as well) for the sole purpose of either getting a specific item or getting credits. The main thing, in AO, being that you have stopped progressing (leveling) your character in order to make income when you farm for money.

    In other games I've played, there are systems where money and gear is merely a by-product of playing the game. What I mean by 'playing the game':
    - Doing quests that have gear and money rewards
    - Running level appropriate instances. Please put an emphasis on 'level appropriate' because in AO quite often instances/dungeons cannot be completed with a team of people that are level appropriate for either when they are directed there (think of the Inner Sanctum elite daily) or for the loot reward (think of the Alappa shoulderpad and prof specific nano). Neither of the examples I just gave are level-appropriate content. Dark Ruins, however, is.
    - Killing level appropriate mobs, solo or in team, that have some chance of dropping green/blue (yes i just went to the WoW/AoC system) items that can be equipped and used as leveling gear.

    AO lacks what I've described as monetary reward for playing the game. As a result, players have to farm.. not because they want to get extra special items (I think that's ok) but just to get stuff that will allow them to continue leveling. That is where the issue comes in with this game, imo. There's no chance of getting mediocre (green quality level) items from trash mob drops on either RK or SL really. Weapons that are pretty much standard requirements for toons (like the JEPP for a pistol soldier) require camping by a higher level main to obtain because the level at which you equip it is a level that you can't OD the 220 that's camping the dryad. As a result, without a higher level main you swap from camping the item to farming creds 'somehow' to be able to buy from another guy farming creds via camping the item you need.

    Add into that equation the 'farming' (bad term but feels the same) you have to do when you get past shop buyable nanos (which is pretty early in the game). At that point, now you're rolling RK missions using a 3rd party tool to try to get BASIC nanos (spells in other games). This is another grind that's added on to the other grinds we already have. And then you've got the whole implant and implant cluster process that again is just an unnecessary grind when someone is just trying to create really BASIC gear to wear and level up in.

    AO being as it is in one aspect or the other isn't a big deal.. but when you combine all that you have to do just to have a mediocre toon (not a twink.. just an average toon) then it is too much for most people to endure and have fun. AO starts to feel like a job.. and one with really poor pay as all of the work you do will only create a MEDIOCRE toon.. that's not counting the additional time/effort/blood/sweat/tears you have to do on top of that to make an actual TWINK.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Perhaps I went about saying this the wrong way. More credits or credit making options is not what I think is needed. The game shouldnt revolve around commerce. For example.. in another thread somewhere I posted that ely-pen questlines where great in theory in that, you could gain usefull equipment to lvl with. Best example is ely giving you some Tier 1 parts, sheol giving some nanos, ado giving some Tier 2 parts, pen giving some nanos. If those questlines were expanded to reward more equipment a character can use at lvl appropriate times, it would in turn reduce market demand for credit cost items. People would be busy playing AO instead of...
    1. farming for credits
    2. to buy market items
    3. to equip toons
    4. to play AO.
    You would be playing to get your equipment as you lvl. Now take that theory and in addition to tier 1 parts, throw in sancroset/inamorata weapons, turn spirits, nodrop symbs (nodrop so it doesnt ruin pb market). Now i'm sure you can imagine how much more user friendly AO would be to a new player. You can still farm creds for AI or dailies for OFAB, but now you have alternative eqeuipment that isn't OP but is also not med suit/xp pistols/ql 100 imps.
    I agree with you but essentially we're stuck between a rock and a hard place here. Redesigning most of AO to conform to an "opt-in economy" like some modern MMOs use would take a lot of time and effort. Adding credit faucets that all players of all levels have access to wouldn't cure the disease but it would at least alleviate the symptoms.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post
    Adding credit faucets that all players of all levels have access to wouldn't cure the disease but it would at least alleviate the symptoms.
    Have to disagree a little here...

    Remember S10 was more than a credit faucet, it was like an unplugged credit fire hydrant. It made such an abundance of credits that prices skyrocketed. Adding more credits in any form would repeat the same problem.

    Think about this... in an upscale ritzy part of your town a budweiser might cost 8-12$. But in the less affluent poor areas 1-3$ gets you the same bottle or beer. Its because more $$$ is available. Less money in game means prices have to drop or things won't sell.
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Psikie View Post
    Have to disagree a little here...

    Remember S10 was more than a credit faucet, it was like an unplugged credit fire hydrant. It made such an abundance of credits that prices skyrocketed. Adding more credits in any form would repeat the same problem.
    But the thing with S10 was, all of the credits being generated were going into one farmable, twink-dominated, level-locked zone. This method would be available to everyone, regardless of level, gear or experience.
    Think about this... in an upscale ritzy part of your town a budweiser might cost 8-12$. But in the less affluent poor areas 1-3$ gets you the same bottle or beer. Its because more $$$ is available. Less money in game means prices have to drop or things won't sell.
    Inflation was causing problems because all the new money was going to a handful of players, which this would avoid.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  20. #20
    Realistically, the way to solve this problem is to do exactly what jill suggests, only, instead of providing cash ONLY, provide items which would be worth more to a leveling toon than the actual credit gain.

    For example: in the 150-200 level category, you can run a daily for 3m credits, 1 piece of 150/175/200/225 OFAB BASIC armour/weapon, or 2 armour upgrades or 2 weapon upgrades, or 1 level appropriate nodrop symbiant (which many players have asked for in the past)

    Which would clearly add a method for players who were hard up for cash and gear to be able to procure the necessary gear to maintain standard gameplay while leveling.

    Gear>>>>credits for leveling players, makign the gear nodrop essentially removes the commerse from the equation, thereby alleviateing the need for credits in the first place.

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