Planning: Multi-Faction Point Bot System

[lopnk]

how ever much i hate point bots.. i always have to agree that it is simply the best and fairest way to distribute loot. Altho Weighted rolls should always be the way to go imo. it just adds to the fun.
I completely feel xkeepers pain..
but i think the pain of completely unable to do any raids outweighs that right now.
being a west coast US player who plays late at night. i do 99.9% of all my gaming solo because there is no one to play with.

[Traderjill]

I will be moving forward with this idea. I've had a few inquiries regarding status of this project and when the bot would be available. As of this moment the roll-out date is unknown but I can give a general status.

Where we are right now:

- Coding: Arguru is tied up this week with RL committments but will be doing the coding for this bot.
- Planning: I have started drafting a document that covers some of the basics of the bot. It is just a starter document, that will need some refinement, but will serve as the base for how the point system and bot is structured.
- Planning Committee: I still have not gotten any volunteers (Clan/Neutral/Omni) to be a part of the planning process for this bot. That being said, I'll be reaching out to some groups in-game that I think would benefit and see if any of the more experienced folks are interested in helping out.

And while I do appreciate people saying that they don't like point systems... this whole thread is about the planning/creation of one. I have been known as being anti-point bot and I do want to address as many of the issues that I had with the old system as possible. This won't be a system that people join for 'easy phats' where it'll be ok to afk or slack through raids. I'd also like to implement something that equates effort with rewards.. meaning the people essential to the raid's success get "a little something extra" for their additional role in the raid's success (referring to main tank, caller, raidleader at the very least).

There really is no definitive way for me to determine whether or not this pointbot system will be a success, but I do believe that having a more inclusive system is better, for many, than having no system at all.

[Ahndracorvid]

There really is no definitive way for me to determine whether or not this pointbot system will be a success, but I do believe that having a more inclusive system is better, for many, than having no system at all.

Would just like to clarify that my agreement with the sentiment is bold is exactly why I'd like to encourage you to periodically change up the loot rolling system so those for whom points rolls don't work can still have a chance. There's nothing stopping you from doing both a points roll and the occassional not-points roll...

At the end of the day it's your bot and your rules. But I genuinely believe something like that would be more inclusive than a purely 100% points-based bot, allowing players like Xkeeper to participate when they otherwise might not be able to.

[Traderjill]

Would just like to clarify that my agreement with the sentiment is bold is exactly why I'd like to encourage you to periodically change up the loot rolling system so those for whom points rolls don't work can still have a chance. There's nothing stopping you from doing both a points roll and the occassional not-points roll...

At the end of the day it's your bot and your rules. But I genuinely believe something like that would be more inclusive than a purely 100% points-based bot, allowing players like Xkeeper to participate when they otherwise might not be able to.

Well the idea behind this system (the initial idea.. obviously this can change) is for people to be able to use unneeded points from Pande/APF (with some sort of scaled conversion) for the Sector 42 raids. I probably didn't make that point clear enough in my original post as the idea is still just a vague thought. Having S42 raids on a flat roll basically does not at all benefit any of the folks that have already bought in to the point bot system via their participation in the other APF/Pande point raids.. so I'm not sure how that would actually benefit this system or the people that use it. But.....

It sounds like what you're saying is that the bot should serve multiple purposes and be used as an organizational tool for point raids and seperatedly as an organizational tool for flat roll raids. That, in itself, I have no issue with at all. The pont raids will be on a schedule, announced in advance, so if someone simply wants to use the bot to run flat roll raids of any kind I see no issue with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the schedule for the point based raids. If people are passionate enough about it, then I'm sure there will be raidleaders even willing to schedule flat roll raids as well.. again, I have no issue with throwing in some basic guidelines for that as part of the system as a whole.. it really wouldn't require any additional coding work (just thinking off the top of my head).

I haven't put together a schedule yet.. I'm actually working on proposals for that as part of my planning document. But I'll provide a loose example of one method we could use for scheduling:

- A static day (or days) per week for S42
- Alternating APF and Pande Weeks

Such as...

- S42 being done every Sunday @ a time that covers GMT-centric and USA-centric players
- Week 1: APF being done Mon/Wed/Fri @ 2 diff times (1 GMT-centric, 1 USA-centric)
- Week 2: Pande being done Mon/Wed/Fri @ 2 diff times (1 GMT-centric, 1 USA-centric)
In this example, Tuesday and Saturday are wide open (no scheduled point raids) so one of those days could very well be a static/scheduled flat-roll S42 raid. There would be no harm in trying it out as this is all a big unknown anyway.

There are a lot of other ways to handle the scheduling, all of which depend on what type of participation this bot gets.. and I'm not going to outline them all here.. the above is just for the purpose of a talking point

[Ahndracorvid]

It sounds like what you're saying is that the bot should serve multiple purposes and be used as an organizational tool for point raids and seperatedly as an organizational tool for flat roll raids. That, in itself, I have no issue with at all. The pont raids will be on a schedule, announced in advance, so if someone simply wants to use the bot to run flat roll raids of any kind I see no issue with it as long as it doesn't interfere with the schedule for the point based raids. If people are passionate enough about it, then I'm sure there will be raidleaders even willing to schedule flat roll raids as well.. again, I have no issue with throwing in some basic guidelines for that as part of the system as a whole.. it really wouldn't require any additional coding work (just thinking off the top of my head).

^ Yep, that's the sort of thing I had in mind. I appreciate that it potentially throws another complication into the mix to keep track of, but I'd like to hope that the people attracted to the non-points raids because of their dislike for points would help make up for that in terms of people willing to help plan/lead/etc.

[Mireiawen]

- Planning Committee: I still have not gotten any volunteers (Clan/Neutral/Omni) to be a part of the planning process for this bot. That being said, I'll be reaching out to some groups in-game that I think would benefit and see if any of the more experienced folks are interested in helping out.

Guess I can help with the planning, with whatever time I've got around. I also got some guides for some PFs around, mostly for s42, from old times...

[Maxisolja]

I had an awfull experience with my main Xkeeper on raidbots regarding beast loot, wich i tryed to accumulate points for a BoC for over a year and i only got my hands into one after the instanced content.

Just like to point out that it was more of a problem due to the quantity of items dropping to the number of players needing it than it was to point bots being unfair.

The Pande point bots just made the best of a bad situation.

Also in any publicly used system the main issues usually aren't with how it works, but with how it is administered. Making a system for free means little to the people using it and they will complain just as if it was your 9-5 job. Without thick skin the administrators usually end up making strict rules because they simply don't have the time/capability/want to directly deal with every nit picking issue.

My main suggestion for Jill is to have a clause in the rules that says your allowed to do anything, and use the clause as needed. Otherwise you have to make very carefully crafted rules which can only be interpreted one way that are strictly enforced. This way you at least satisfy the majority and the people complaining about abuse (except when the complaint is legitimate) are usually the ones that would complain anyways and are just butt hurt their actions resulted in a punishment.

You know your doing the right job when the system is popular and your getting yelled at by people on both sides of a problem.


As for the rolling situation the idea to me would be to have 1/2 to 2/3 of the raids being point raids and the rest being flatrolled (still get points for attending though) at a specific time. This gets point-hoarders to attend flatroll raids, and flatroll raiders to attend point bot raids when they accumulate enough from the flatroll raids to make it worth while. To pull it off seamlessly the flatroll raids need to be in the decision making process from the start along side point raids, otherwise they become a secondary aspect with little commitment from the bots administration..

Weighted rolling is the way to go, however I feel there should be a cut off on who is counted in the weighing such as only the top 60% people that join a roll are counted as long as the distribution of points is large enough to allow it. I know it is very frustrating for people who build up a massive amount of points to lose a roll to someone who has just joined on their first raid.

[Troxkeep]

Wouldn't be Saturday better to run S42 raids?

[Traderjill]

Wouldn't be Saturday better to run S42 raids?

umm.. not sure how else to say it other than what I already stated in the post.... Anyone interested in being involved in choosing what day things happen on are more than welcome to sign up to be part of the planning committee.. otherwise.. not really going to discuss specifics like that in this particular thread As already mentioned, the above was just an example to give a clearer picture of the concept.

I haven't put together a schedule yet.. I'm actually working on proposals for that as part of my planning document. But I'll provide a loose example of one method we could use for scheduling:

There are a lot of other ways to handle the scheduling, all of which depend on what type of participation this bot gets.. and I'm not going to outline them all here.. the above is just for the purpose of a talking point

[Wakizaka]

Where can I sign up for the planning committee ?

[Notcrattey]

Where can I sign up for the planning committee ?

^^^