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Thread: Non-'lame' duel tactics

  1. #1

    Non-'lame' duel tactics

    My fellow fixers,

    In the last few days I've done some nice duelling on my fixer. Unfortunately, every time I win I'm apparently either gay, lame, a ***, or a combination thereof. Why? Apparently because my tactics suck.

    A few examples.

    1. vs AR-soldier, round 1.
    Soldier pops AMS right at start of duel. Since I'm not a complete idiot I'm not going to waste myself against AMS which would mean insta-splat. Instead, I pop both DOF and Limber, corrupted flesh absorb and AAD-perk. I sit down to halve my heal-delta and have the soldier (try and) hit me until AMS runs out. I perk soldier with everything I got and win.

    2. vs AR-soldier, round 2.
    Soldier again pops AMS, but this time comes prepared for the beforementioned tactic and brings some more DD (could've also brought aimed shot). I won't survive standing there for 1m20s, so I use blindring and Implode to drain nano. I root him and run awaaay and hide. When the AMS timer runs out I run back and alpha, and win.

    3. vs Shade.
    We both open with DOF, shade uses stun and alpha's to 50% of my health. As soon as stun runs out I kite until I can land root. Then I take my time to land LICC, and alpha shade to death (while spamming root to keep it refreshed and in case it breaks). I win.

    4. vs Shade, but agreed not to use roots on my side, and not to use stuns on his side.
    I use LICC, spam alpha and win.

    5. vs Crat (wasn't a duel, but flagged pvp)
    I open by snaring both pets, and pop LICC on crat, crat pops evade debuffs on me. I hit both DOF and Limber hoping I can kill him fast enough, slugs go up and so does MOTR, I kill crat while his evade pets can't come close to me. I win.

    All of the above tactics involve rooting, kiting or at least running away from danger until we can position ourselves better against the enemy. To my knowledge, pretty much exactly what the Fixer is. We don't have huge AR to eat through anything, we're not soldiers. We aren't enforcers, so we can't be expected to just stand there and take the damage. We're not docs/crats/engi's with huge AR debuffs, the only debuff we really have is LICC (to make up for our already crappy AR).

    Simply put, we're not a profession that can press Q, alpha against anything (that isn't a keeper), so we have to be smart. Unfortunately, my ideas apparently make me an *******, a ****** or a lamer who nobody wants to duel a second time.

    Anyone got any PvP strats that doesn't make you attracted to people of the same gender?

  2. #2
    Well MrArgu, if the shade has less AR, less evades and DOESN'T EVER get you to 50% HP, and can only knock 33% off maximum - AND YOU KNOW THAT - it's really a bit duel-score farm-like to just root and blind him and then sit there and shoot. Especially because you know his exact set-up and he's entirely PvM and only dueling you for fun - which is entirely lost when rooted+blinded. AND he's Opifex so no Mongo Rage AND you have Shadow-breed and he doesn't. AND we're sub 220.

    Also conveniently 'forgetting' to mention that you HAVE died to the shade in both standard duelling AND no-roots no-stuns is intriguing. JUST as intriguing as how you've 'forgot' to mention that you died to the Soldier in standard AND came very close to dying to him in a no-AMS duel!

    But heh y'know, jus' sayin'.
    Bainzyy - Level 220/30 Shade
    PvP-ing - RP-ing - PvMing

  3. #3
    Rules in duels are lame, nuff said.
    Fixer issues

    Quote Originally Posted by heartless888 View Post
    fixers got 2 more hots since LE, which means their healing over time, more or less, went up 200%

  4. #4
    "Rules in duels are lame, nuff said."

    Nahhh it's interesting when we're all orgies and just having a laugh!
    Bainzyy - Level 220/30 Shade
    PvP-ing - RP-ing - PvMing

  5. #5
    Until game is balanced, any root/snare ranged class will wtf pwn any melee/non root/non snare/non SD perked class/any SD perked class, period.

    Stand'n'tank is the method players have adopted in order to produce SEMBLANCE of balance within the ridiculousness of AO's pro-ranged dichotomy of PVP.

    Not abiding by the generally un-said rule of stand'n'tank will earn you a sh*tton of bad rep fast, basically, because you're using KNOWN methods to secure victory against people who would rather have a "fair" fight.

    Pulling root'n'run manoeuvers out of your ass mid fight will earn you exactly 0 re-matches.

    Here's a tip: use the nano and casting you would have used on spamming snares/roots to produce more HP, more chances on LICC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  6. #6
    Music to my ears Hotdog! That's exactly what everyone who has said 'Errr no thanks' to rematches has said in their explanation as to why they wont fight Argu again.
    Bainzyy - Level 220/30 Shade
    PvP-ing - RP-ing - PvMing

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    Until game is balanced, any root/snare ranged class will wtf pwn any melee/non root/non snare/non SD perked class/any SD perked class, period.

    Stand'n'tank is the method players have adopted in order to produce SEMBLANCE of balance within the ridiculousness of AO's pro-ranged dichotomy of PVP.

    Not abiding by the generally un-said rule of stand'n'tank will earn you a sh*tton of bad rep fast, basically, because you're using KNOWN methods to secure victory against people who would rather have a "fair" fight.

    Pulling root'n'run manoeuvers out of your ass mid fight will earn you exactly 0 re-matches.

    Here's a tip: use the nano and casting you would have used on spamming snares/roots to produce more HP, more chances on LICC.
    while i don't kite in duels, i also don't make any assumption that the opponent won't either. and anyone who does is naive and stupid

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    Until game is balanced, any root/snare ranged class will wtf pwn any melee/non root/non snare/non SD perked class/any SD perked class, period.
    Melee professions get more than enough ways to break roots at a whim, making roots entirely unreliable. MR, Free Movement, perking SD, it's all ways to avoid getting wtfrooted. If you choose not to and therefore choose to gimp yourself against a rooting/snaring profession that's entirely your choice. At TL5 I didn't put points into Worm ICE either, but you don't see me crying when I get drained.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    Stand'n'tank is the method players have adopted in order to produce SEMBLANCE of balance within the ridiculousness of AO's pro-ranged dichotomy of PVP.

    Not abiding by the generally un-said rule of stand'n'tank will earn you a sh*tton of bad rep fast, basically, because you're using KNOWN methods to secure victory against people who would rather have a "fair" fight.

    Pulling root'n'run manoeuvers out of your ass mid fight will earn you exactly 0 re-matches.
    The same could be said about shade's sneaking at the start of a duel to insta-stun you, anyone rolling a ranged trox adv, lowbie traders using mocham's to get uber drains. It's all stuff that will provide you a significant advantage, doesn't mean they are suddenly invincible. And fixers are all but invincible, even with the oh-so-OP roots and snares.

  9. #9
    Feel teh hate, even in forums Face it, fixers are always hated because of their toolset, which includes Runspeed buffs, meep, roots, etc. I rarely duel on my fix and my score is currently 5-21, because fixers (unless you're very good) sux at toe-to-toe.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Desdishado View Post
    Feel teh hate, even in forums Face it, fixers are always hated because of their toolset, which includes Runspeed buffs, meep, roots, etc. I rarely duel on my fix and my score is currently 5-21, because fixers (unless you're very good) sux at toe-to-toe.
    Fixers are the new NT's. :|

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    Melee professions get more than enough ways to break roots at a whim, making roots entirely unreliable. MR, Free Movement, perking SD, it's all ways to avoid getting wtfrooted. If you choose not to and therefore choose to gimp yourself against a rooting/snaring profession that's entirely your choice. At TL5 I didn't put points into Worm ICE either, but you don't see me crying when I get drained.
    MR doesn't break roots.
    FM's are useful, yes, but thats the point of them.
    Perking SD? ahahahahahah, what?

    Can we discuss "Perking SD"?

    Lets choose a melee prof, oh, just randomly, lets choose keeper. Now, lets say a keeper perks SD. You know what happens next? Keeper gets killed by everysingleprofeverysinglefight.

    but, oh, yes, you're right, you don't HAVE to CHOOSE to perk it! If you CHOOSE to perk SD, it's a CHOICE! so therefore, it's undeniably balanced and we should factor that into our DECISION tree?

    Ok, enough e-wit, lets ACTUALLY try to figure out if thats balanced:

    Lets say you're a keeper, and I'm a fixer:

    Scenario 1:
    Me: I press one button
    You: use 10 perks trying to defend my one button.

    Scenario 2:
    Me: I don't press one button
    You: wasted 10 perks trying to defend one button I didn't press.

    Scenario 1: In an ideal world, your awesome foresight allowed you to avoid getting rooted/snared. And you amazingly stayed mobile, only to die 2 minutes sooner than you would have because you're perkable/don't have any heals/whatever.

    Scenario 2: you still die 2 minutes sooner than you would have even though I didn't even try to snare you. you're still perkable, you're still dead in the water, you're still ending at reclaim, EVEN THOUGH YOU MADE THE AWESOME DECISION TO DEFEND ROOTS/SNARES WITH SD! bonus.

    Ok, great, keepers fail. which other prof did you mean? MA?

    If a MA perks SD, and lands a root on a fixer the MA might win the fight. If a fixer is smart though, he'll meep and come back with a buddy and wtf pwn the MA. If you're in a duel however, and you can't get a buddy, a fixer should try to take advantage of the MA perked into SD by utilizing the obvious dearth of perks an MA will have in unstunnable, or lack of fist AR, or lack of stuns in brawler line (not that an MA will EVER perk a fixer with brawler perks), but at least there is some add damage in that line that will contribute to the MA not landing as many capping hits.. if you're lucky. MA vs fixer is generally a blowout so it doesn't matter if you perk SD or not. In the case of MA vs fixer, fixers best bet is to do DB1/2 first and plant a 275 presence tower. That will knock the MA into next week if you can survive his alpha.

    Lets see: the only other prof that could perk SD is advy, but I really don't think it'll make much difference with advy. Melee will be a good fight, ranged you'll have a hard time.

    Ok, so, realistically, the only prof that CAN perk SD is advy (with perks to spare) and they are the only prof that doesn't need it. MA can't afford it, keepers can't afford it. MA and keeper the fate is already sealed unless extreme circumstances prevail.

    Shade I don't know enough about but I'd assume thay can't afford SD either.


    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    The same could be said about shade's sneaking at the start of a duel to insta-stun you, anyone rolling a ranged trox adv, lowbie traders using mocham's to get uber drains. It's all stuff that will provide you a significant advantage, doesn't mean they are suddenly invincible. And fixers are all but invincible, even with the oh-so-OP roots and snares.

    Any shade/agent who sneaks at the beginning of a duel is a.

    Anyone who rolled ranged advy is either a nab who doesn't know how to play, a average dude who just happened to be ranged and it was natural progression, or some masochistic who loves to rolfstomp everyone and never die due to FC's brilliant ploy of making advies even more lovechild than anyone ever thought possible.

    Getting OSB's for a duel is pretty much a game wide no-no.

    Of course, you CAN do it. Having RRFE in some duels is the difference between a blow out and a easy win, but sometimes it doesn't make a shred of difference. Either way, the only safe bet is no OSB's. thats why it's the rule. If you choose to re-duel sneaky buggers who sneak at the beginning of duels, or whatever else (note rollerblades awesome tactic of going into sneak, then AFKing for an hour and coming back to gank giit when he finally went AFK as well) well, whatever. Sure, you can give lip service to "all's fair in love and war" but you'll build your own rep and some would say thats the only thing that matters in a social game.

    user beware I guess is the best advice I can give on that aspect.
    Last edited by Anarrina; Jan 12th, 2012 at 23:39:31. Reason: removed obscenities
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    Until game is balanced, any root/snare ranged class will wtf pwn any melee/non root/non snare/non SD perked class/any SD perked class, period.

    Stand'n'tank is the method players have adopted in order to produce SEMBLANCE of balance within the ridiculousness of AO's pro-ranged dichotomy of PVP.

    Not abiding by the generally un-said rule of stand'n'tank will earn you a sh*tton of bad rep fast, basically, because you're using KNOWN methods to secure victory against people who would rather have a "fair" fight.

    Pulling root'n'run manoeuvers out of your ass mid fight will earn you exactly 0 re-matches.

    Here's a tip: use the nano and casting you would have used on spamming snares/roots to produce more HP, more chances on LICC.
    Except since LE, FC has generally forced us to run and kite in order to survive, and playing by the other guy's rules is a sure way to lose. So imo, if other people want me to stand still in a duel, they can learn to stop wailing like it's the end of the world on the forums if/when fixers are given some new goodies that make standing and tanking more attractive to those who aren't 220/30/70/full endgame gear.
    Kain97 - 220 Fixer, President, Pantheon
    Maskirovka - 220 Shade
    Dominum - 220 Bureaucrat
    Severit - 220 Enforcer
    Sayet - 220 Doctor

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kain97 View Post
    Except since LE, FC has generally forced us to run and kite in order to survive, and playing by the other guy's rules is a sure way to lose. So imo, if other people want me to stand still in a duel, they can learn to stop wailing like it's the end of the world on the forums if/when fixers are given some new goodies that make standing and tanking more attractive to those who aren't 220/30/70/full endgame gear.
    try ga4
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    try ga4
    It's not like I took you much seriously in the last few posts, but alas my friend. L2p fixer then come join the discussion.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    It's not like I took you much seriously in the last few posts, but alas my friend. L2p fixer then come join the discussion.
    ???

    Fixers have easily enough defence to stand and tank, or sit and tank if thats your thing, but, either way, anyone who says fixers don't have enough defence to stand and tank is loltastic.

    you've earned this -->hero cookie<-- for your efforts.

    I have a 150 fixer who can stand and tank all day long in GA 4.

    So, LTP yourself.

    And, whats this talk of "not 220/70/30" about? If you go try to duel someone and you're sub par (ohh, lets see, you had about 10 years to get there), in terms of level and gear, well, you might wanna take up pokemon or something more your speed.

    Also, FYI, theres about 13 profs who have LESS defence than you... ahmg, are you SURE you want to go down that road?

    If the most DEFENSIVE prof in game complains that he can't stand and tank... well, maybe you need to have another look at how you play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunarsolace
    This idea kills 2 forum trolls with one hamster.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    I have a 150 fixer who can stand and tank all day long in GA 4.
    Using...what? Any weapon you use at that level is going to be the equivalent of a noisy fly. A minor annoyance, but nothing else.

    Sure, you can hardly be hit. But at the same time you won't have enough AR to hit anyone with anything either. So yeah, /ignore and carry on with whatever you were doing.

    As for the rest of the paragraph, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    Also, FYI, theres about 13 profs who have LESS defence than you... ahmg, are you SURE you want to go down that road?

    If the most DEFENSIVE prof in game complains that he can't stand and tank... well, maybe you need to have another look at how you play.
    no offence or anything but are you high? or have you not pvp'd at tl7 in the last 5 years?

    since LoX fixers have had the lowest defense ingame cuz everyone and their mother uses that as pistol. and those that don't have sa. so basically as a result of that fixers are forced into low-hp builds that rely on kiting to survive because if they didnt they'd be doead 40 seconds into the fight. getting hit by a capping as every 11s from docs is not cool.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Arguru View Post
    Melee professions get more than enough ways to break roots at a whim, making roots entirely unreliable. MR, Free Movement, perking SD, it's all ways to avoid getting wtfrooted. If you choose not to and therefore choose to gimp yourself against a rooting/snaring profession that's entirely your choice.
    Utter nonsense. Apart from the fact that not every of the affected professions do have acess to decent root/snare remove toolsets or would have to sacrifice way too much any of the toolsets youve mentioned got a serious cooldown while roots/snares are still wtf-spammable. So anyone who gets anything off lame-ass perma-rooting - enjoy it while it lasts, will be dropped out of game with rebalancing anyway. Feel free to troll until that.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    ???

    Fixers have easily enough defence to stand and tank, or sit and tank if thats your thing, but, either way, anyone who says fixers don't have enough defence to stand and tank is loltastic.

    you've earned this -->hero cookie<-- for your efforts.

    I have a 150 fixer who can stand and tank all day long in GA 4.
    Isn't that nice. Now, level it to 220, grind all your endgame phatz, and feel free to come back and share your butthurt when you realize tl5 is the height of fixer's defense, and the higher you level, the more everyone else gets that just plain bypasses your mountain of AAD+evades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    And, whats this talk of "not 220/70/30" about? If you go try to duel someone and you're sub par (ohh, lets see, you had about 10 years to get there), in terms of level and gear, well, you might wanna take up pokemon or something more your speed.
    You do know not everyone started in 2001, right? And not everyone is all that interested in pvp, or interested in grinding for those last few items, yet could enjoy the occasional duel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    Also, FYI, theres about 13 profs who have LESS defence than you... ahmg, are you SURE you want to go down that road?
    And if there wasn't a whole metric crapton of things specifically designed to bypass our raw numbers, your point might be valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdog View Post
    If the most DEFENSIVE prof in game complains that he can't stand and tank... well, maybe you need to have another look at how you play.
    Why not, the profs with the most devlub can whine and complain that they're actually underpowered and horrifically gimp, when do we get a turn at this game?
    Kain97 - 220 Fixer, President, Pantheon
    Maskirovka - 220 Shade
    Dominum - 220 Bureaucrat
    Severit - 220 Enforcer
    Sayet - 220 Doctor

  20. #20
    The way I see it at this moment tbh, everyone who wines about a moving/rooting target just needs to l2pvp.
    Last edited by Arguru; Jan 12th, 2012 at 22:58:23.

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