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Thread: Levelling Suggestion

  1. #1

    Levelling Suggestion

    As AO is now, it favors leveling alone/solo because you will get more xp from solokills. How about changing this completely around so it favors teaming? AO needs to be built around the idea that teaming will be a huge benefit. Lets say you get MORE xp from teaming pr person, not less like it is now.

    Example:
    A team with 2 persons gives +10% more xp than a standard solo kill.
    A team with 3 persons gives +25% more xp than a standard solo kill.
    4 persons - 60% more xp
    5 persons - 85% more xp
    A full team(6 persons) gives + 105% more xp from a standard solo kill.

    Something similar can be worked out with teams in Raid interface.

    These changes will want people to team rather than solo.
    How can this be abused? Pocket teams with nukers will be an issue. How can this easily be fixed? Remove the NT's AOE nukes from game completely and replace them with something else. Maybe AOE "UBT" or AOE "FEARS" or something like that. And make sure it cant be used in pvp since these are very powerfull.

    What else wants people to team more? The loot! Right now the game favors small teams to increase your chance of getting the loot you want.

    How can you change the players mindset to not make small teams? INCREASE the DROPRATE the more members you are in a team!

    Right now you have highest droprate when soloing, it needs to be the other way around.

    Example:

    Team of 2 persons - droprate increase of 10%
    3 persons - droprate increase of 20%
    4 persons - droprate increase of 50%
    5 persons - droprate increase of 75%
    6 persons - droprate is 100%. THIS WILL BE VERY EFFECTIVE IN GETTING A FULL TEAM!

    Something similar can be worked out when doing RAIDS(raid interface). When in raid mode you get a CHANCE of more drops of the same loot.

    Example:
    2 teams in raid interface at beast - 10% chance of getting another BOC drop!
    3 teams in raid interface at beast - 20% chance of getting a second BOC drop + 10% chance of a third BOC drop.
    4 teams in raid interface at beast - 40% chance of getting a second BOC + 20% chance of getting a third boc + 10% chance of getting a fourth BOC!

    You get the idea.

    This will favor doing raids in big masses again cause it will benefit all.


    Any suggestions or possible exploits that can happen from these changes are welcomed!

  2. #2
    nonsense. ao levelling is fine as it is

  3. #3
    Lol AO favours lvling solo? What? WHAT? This is like, the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
    Sure, you could argue it does if you're happy to complete a couple of different daily missions a day.
    But the moment you team up with someone your XP increases vastly. Even if the XP / kill is lowered.

    Why? Faster kills. Able to take on much higher lvl monsters. Much more XP pr. minute than is achievable solo.

    Also, droprate, what? It's the same regardless of how many you are. What drops should increase the more you are? Raidbosses? OK, now everyone gets everything on the first run through. Then what?
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  4. #4
    "What drops should increase the more you are? Raidbosses? OK, now everyone gets everything on the first run through. Then what?"

    Think you misunderstood. How can everyone get everything on first run if its nodrop and only 1 part of that item drops?

    Example from APF sectors:
    The things that are 100% drop still drops as usual and will only be affected by by how big your raid interface is(How many in each team, how many teams).
    If u go in with 2 full teams in raid mode you will get a smaller(not 100%) additional chance of getting another drop of for example an ERU.

    Since you know only 1 ERU drop, everyone wants to make the smallest team possible to increase theyre chances of winning.

    How about making it so that chances of winning goes up the bigger teams and more people you get?

    I get that maybe AO is favoring teaming, but its not favoring it enough. Why is it so hard to find and/or make a team these days?

    Or maybe im just an idealist. Thanks for the feedback so far.

  5. #5
    I think the solution to people raiding with the smallest possible team would best be solved by some sort of raid token being awarded to everyone in the raid team at the end of the instance. The raid tokens could then be turned in to the appropriate NPC for that instance in exchange for whatever piece of armor/item you wanted (based on typical loot table for that instance).

    Anything else.. tbh, you have to think like an AO player. If I know that if I go in with 2 teams of people I'll have an extra chance of getting loot.. am I (your typical AO player) going to grab 6 more people or will the 6 people in team 1 just triple log and have team 2/3 be our alts so we (team 1 folks) can get more loot?

    If you're going to add more people for more loot.. you must have more challenge that requires those people or it will just be more of the same.
    You can find me at:
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    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  6. #6
    Traderjill : Wouldnt people still triple log for more tokens if that system is implemented?

    Why do people dual/triple/quad log? Cause they want bigger chance of getting the loot! The number of multiple-loggers can be reduced drastically if the chances of getting loot the "normal" way is higher.

    Stick & Carrot!
    Last edited by Google; Jan 5th, 2012 at 20:10:48.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Google View Post
    Traderjill : Wouldnt people still triple log for more tokens if that system is implemented?

    With a token system (assuming the encounters are left exactly as is) yes, people would still triple log for more tokens but that's not the point is it? Your issue isn't a complaint about triple loggers. It is a suggestion to improve the likelihood that people will include others in their teams. So while the token system may allow for triple loggers to get loot on 2-3 alts at a time, there is no technical harm (will cover that later) on them adding people to their teams when they do farm since everyone walks away with a token.


    Quote Originally Posted by Google View Post
    Why do people dual/triple/quad log? Cause they want bigger chance of getting the loot! The number of multiple-loggers can be reduced drastically if the chances of getting loot the "normal" way is higher.

    Stick & Carrot!
    Unless Funcom changes the encounters such that more people=more challenge=more loot then existing dual/triple loggers will not change anything. Why would a farmer invite more people to team when they can do the content dual/triple logged as is and get even more loot? They won't.

    Now back to my other point about the technicality regarding adding people to a raid. Sometimes involving more people (especially the inexperienced) can really drag out a raid experience. Case in point, I can triple log and do Libra/North/TNH faster and more efficiently than some 6-8 man teams I've seen. This being said, even if there was no loss of loot for a true endgame farmer/expert/professional, they still might not add the inexperienced because of the very big chance that someone is going to make a novice error and foul things up for them. While this sounds a bit cruel or mean-spirited it is a reality.

    What funcom REALLY needs to fix.. and I think this is what the rebalance is about.. is the fact that 4 professions in this game basically 'run things'. You will not see a doctor, an enforcer, a soldier or a crat on the forums complaining about lack of teams. Heck, you can even disregard the soldier because if you just want reflects.. in some cases you can get rrfe from anyone and it others you can easily sub in an engie that isn't at all tough to find. That's the problem.. that MP's, traders, MA's, Keepers (except 12man), Fixers, Agents, lol.. even funcom love children (adventurers) simply aren't needed and viewed as extra baggage in raids. That's the problem.. what players do with the dual/triple/quad logging is their reactive solution to the problem that they didn't create.

    From a personal perspective. I have 3 paid accounts. I have a 220 soldier on acct 1, 220 doc on acct 2 and 220 crat on acct 3. The only thing I'm missing is an enforcer (which oddly is the profession I can now never find.. so thinking of rolling one on that soldier account). My point is that I personally hate multi-logging... its boring really. I play a MMO to play with others but.. I also hate looking for people to join a team when I want to get something done. I also don't care for failed raids so if I need to multi-log to insure that the raid will succeed so that my time isn't wasted then I'll do that as well. If I don't have to.. wonderful. I think a lot of multiple account holders started off, like me, with one account and happy to play it and then realized "crap.. I can't get stuff done in this game" and got another only to eventually find out that multi-logging was literally the most efficient/least time consuming way to do darn near everything.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 5th, 2012 at 21:25:43.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  8. #8
    What funcom REALLY needs to fix.. and I think this is what the rebalance is about.. is the fact that 4 professions in this game basically 'run things'.
    The rebalance looks like it will help a bit, but the problem will persist as long as one profession is clearly The Best at its role.
    I am wiser than any god or scientist, for I have squared the circle and cubed Earth's sphere, thus I have created 4 simultaneous separate 24 hour days within a 4-corner (as in a 4-corner classroom) rotation of Earth. See for yourself the absolute proof.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Google View Post
    Why is it so hard to find and/or make a team these days?
    Player attitudes seem to have changed a lot in the last few years - people seem way more focused on results (loot, xp per minute, whatever) than just having silly fun and seem to feel they can't really begin playing the game until they have a "finished" character (I often hear this sort of thing from other enforcers I talk to - can't raid tank because they don't have X gear yet.) It's weird because after their character is "finished" they no longer need to play that character . . . except maybe to dual log to help their next one.

    I don't know, I kind of think it's an overall attitude shift more than the fault of the game itself. Or, with the amount people playing being smaller than it was formerly, that no-team-stranger/dual log mentality is more noticeable now.

  10. #10
    I'll try not to make another wall of text..

    I think part of what Biancha stated is true but that is only part of the story. When I first started playing AO, the % of players that actually played the game, learned their toons and were 'decently' equipped was extremely high. I'd go as far as to say that 70%+ of the player population, at any given level, had on level appropriate gear and was using level appropriate or better nanos.

    These days, that isn't the case. Sometimes, to me, it feels as if about 40% of the playerbase fits into the category I described above (level appropriate gear/nanos/knowledge of profession) and I think I'm being generous by saying 40 percent. That makes a lot of people shy away from teaming unknown people as you don't play a game to be aggravated by negligent incompetence (I define negligent incompetence as things like people missing whole nano lines, doctors without init debuffs, soldiers without sl reflect, fixers without runspeed or hots, etc).

    I play for fun and its not fun when I've spent time/effort equipping my toon and team up with 2 or 3 folks that just couldn't be bothered to do basic stuff. Fact: I'm not going to care more about someone else's toon than my own. So if they don't care enough to stop and blitz a few nanos and grab some gear then I don't care enough to help them level up or get gear either.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 6th, 2012 at 01:06:53.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Biancha View Post
    I don't know, I kind of think it's an overall attitude shift more than the fault of the game itself. Or, with the amount people playing being smaller than it was formerly, that no-team-stranger/dual log mentality is more noticeable now.
    There has been a massive shift towards the "maximum reward for minimum effort" style of gaming, a trend that began when console and fps players started to outnumber the D&D crowd that was the core of the first generation MMO population. This has resulted in the focus shifting away from simply "playing the game" to "winning the game" (which for MMOs means reaching max level and acquiring wealth and phats). This has created something that I call the "golden path", which is simply a roadmap for reaching the endgame (and thus, the conditions for "winning the game") as quickly and efficiently as possible. Any content not on the golden path gets skipped. Any manner of playing the game that does not directly advance players along that path, gets skipped. The effect of this style of gameplay on AO has been catastrophic due to poor game design, power creep and profession imbalance. It is the number one reason why cooperative teaming of peers has been replaced by kiting/OSTs, and the reason why only a few professions are wanted by 99% of all teams.
    Last edited by Polaria; Jan 6th, 2012 at 14:09:09.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Polaria View Post
    This has resulted in the focus shifting away from simply "playing the game" to "winning the game" (which for MMOs means reaching max level and acquiring wealth and phats). This has created something that I call the "golden path", which is simply a roadmap for reaching the endgame (and thus, the conditions for "winning the game") as quickly and efficiently as possible. Any content not on the golden path gets skipped.

    this reminds me of a really old image i saw ages ago (from back when demotivation posters were still funny) http://i.imgur.com/ptFj7.jpg

  13. #13
    even before SL the fastest xp came from teammissions/play
    you might get less xp per kill in a team but then you also kill faster and higher lvl mobs
    dear omlets.... DO YOUR DAILY PVP! grmbl.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Traderjill View Post
    Sometimes, to me, it feels as if about 40% of the playerbase fits into the category I described above (level appropriate gear/nanos/knowledge of profession) and I think I'm being generous by saying 40 percent. That makes a lot of people shy away from teaming unknown people as you don't play a game to be aggravated by negligent incompetence (I define negligent incompetence as things like people missing whole nano lines, doctors without init debuffs, soldiers without sl reflect, fixers without runspeed or hots, etc).
    So you think 60% of the population skips whole nano lines ? What character level are you talking about here ? At lvl 50-, maybe, but honestly past that point, I have met very few people who missed whole nano lines in my AO experience. And I've been teaming a lot with strangers.

    This just doesn't add up to me. People keep saying that there are no new players, only veterans, but 60% of them don't have up-to-date gear and neglect some important nano lines ?
    Thornee - resurrected lowbie, former 200 Fixer
    Stannerd - 220 Soldier
    Megusta - TL7 Doc
    Kaleeh - TL5 Shade

  15. #15
    I guess most people want to go high level asap, why bother to have proper gear when you duallog anyway and help yourself?
    dear omlets.... DO YOUR DAILY PVP! grmbl.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorneee View Post
    So you think 60% of the population skips whole nano lines ? What character level are you talking about here ? At lvl 50-, maybe, but honestly past that point, I have met very few people who missed whole nano lines in my AO experience. And I've been teaming a lot with strangers.

    This just doesn't add up to me. People keep saying that there are no new players, only veterans, but 60% of them don't have up-to-date gear and neglect some important nano lines ?
    No, I'm not saying 60% of the population skips whole nano lines. If you'll reread my post I said "things like missing whole nano lines, doctors without init debuffs...".

    I literally do not do pick-up teams in inferno anymore.. I only do org teams because I am being generous when I say that if I grab 5 people off LFT for an inferno mission that at least 3 of them are in some combination of outdated armor, outdated weapon, outdated nanos (or missing whole nano lines altogether.. i.e. soldiers without sl reflect, fixers without sl runspeed) or simply have NO idea how to play their profession at all.

    I'm not sure what you mean by people saying there are no new players. I encounter quite a few of them. But regardless, I never stated that only newbies are undergeared. Some people that have been playing the game for 1-4 years, are guilty of just fast tracking their toons especially because they weren't around when it was normal for people to gear up along the way. You are less likely to have a veteran player doing what I described unless they are playing a 220 roller and have the alt on tow.. at least that's my experience (but even these folks 'the alts on tow' factor into the % of folks that are not properly equipped for their level and still doing content). I guess it all depends on how you define veteran. I consider veteran players, in a 10 year old game, to be folks that have played for at least half of its existance (5+ years). AO was a much different game back then.
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 6th, 2012 at 15:03:16.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  17. #17
    Ah, you're mainly talking about inferno missions. Then I hear you.
    Yes people mentality at inf mishes is terrible. Quite a lot don't bother updating gear until they are lvl 215+.

    This is just one very specific spot though, the whole game is not similar to that.
    Thornee - resurrected lowbie, former 200 Fixer
    Stannerd - 220 Soldier
    Megusta - TL7 Doc
    Kaleeh - TL5 Shade

  18. #18
    I like the token idea instead of actual drops, it would influence people to recruit anyone that wants in! And it would make it far easier for the lesser wanted profs to get gear and nanos.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorneee View Post
    Ah, you're mainly talking about inferno missions. Then I hear you.
    Yes people mentality at inf mishes is terrible. Quite a lot don't bother updating gear until they are lvl 215+.

    This is just one very specific spot though, the whole game is not similar to that.
    Im not specifically talking about inferno. Have you made an adonis team lately? If so, unless they were s10 twinks.. do an inspect on randoms and tell me what you find, lol. I remember getting into a rather heated argument with a MA and a trader in my ado team.. neither feeling that buffs for other people were important (the MA didn't have MoP, the trader didn't have umrbrals). The same applies to ely teams though I'm going to say that this has got to be the worst playfield and that 40% number is way high for the number of people in appropriate level gear/nanos. I'm not taking anyone below ely teaming level into consideration because maybe they are just plain brand new and haven't gotten it figured out yet.

    So yeah, I'm saying it happens throughout the entire game. Including doing pick-up teams for random endgame instances as well. Some people gear up at 215... many try to go from tl5 gear to endgame in one big swoop...not bothering to waste time/effort/resources/money on anything that isn't going to be in their equipement tabs as a 'finished character' (see Polaria's post for details).
    Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 6th, 2012 at 17:22:44.
    You can find me at:
    Battlenet @ Marilata#1680
    Steam @ http://steamcommunity.com/id/marilata

  20. #20
    Please note I have renamed your thread. With all the suggestions here, it's advisable to give your thread a title that's going to tell someone skimming the forum what the thread is about.
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