Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 59

Thread: Profession balance: The potential of the engineer

  1. #21
    It's the pouring of IP into creating a bot then thinking I should have spent those IP in skills to upgrade my carb or TS those 3 packs of instruction discs I have in the bank that make me look forward to rebalance. I mean I'm an Engineer: why should I decide between building a bot or building anything else? Of course BUFFING the bot should still be nano based but why should making a bot shell and a nano crystal take entirely different classes of skills? Just wondering.
    I'm a Froob Neutral Trade Skilling Nanomage Engineer- by definition I hide round corners and let the bot do the fighting.

  2. #22
    Exactly Cogline. I think some people are against it because it would make it easier for other people to make competing tradeskillers. The value of their elite tradeskill items would lower because others would be able to do the same thing more easily. Eliteist attitude once again. If this is done for engis,

    I think something similar should be done for other professions though.
    Something similar should be done for Traders.
    Other professions with blue ts ip should be able to use their ts more easily:
    Some doc nano lines should require pt.
    Some fixer lines should require b&e like the GSF line.
    And an NT line should require the same skills necessary to make nanos.
    SmokeX 210/23 Neutral Opifex MA General of Spirit Walkers
    SmokeKillsU 81/3 Neutral Opifex Agent
    UraniumX 101/2 Neutral Nanomage NT
    BruteForceX 61 Neutral Opifex Fixer
    SmokingGunsX 43/2 Neutral Solitus Soldier
    SixOfNynex 42/2 Neutral Nanomage Engineer
    Jiroieyoshi 12/2 Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    EMHMarkX 32/2 Neutral Nanomage Doctor

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by smokex View Post
    Exactly Cogline. I think some people are against it because it would make it easier for other people to make competing tradeskillers. The value of their elite tradeskill items would lower because others would be able to do the same thing more easily. Eliteist attitude once again. If this is done for engis,
    There are no elite tradeskill items.
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
    Rebalancing - Announced: January 2009 ETA: December 21, 2012 Started! (April 2015)
    New TL7 Pets - Announced: March 2009 ETA: Uh...
    AS Changes - Announced: July 2009 ETA: TBA
    Parry/Riposte - Announced: October 2009 ETA: ??? Did it! (April 2015)
    Perk Changes - Announced: October 2009 ETA: Right after server merge Started! (April 2015)
    Breed Change - Announced: November 2009 ETA: Hell freezing They did it!!! (Oct 2012)
    Beta Server - Announced: January 2010 ETA: Pigs Flying Did it! (Feb 2014)

  4. #24
    There are no elite tradeskill items.
    BS... plain BS.
    SmokeX 210/23 Neutral Opifex MA General of Spirit Walkers
    SmokeKillsU 81/3 Neutral Opifex Agent
    UraniumX 101/2 Neutral Nanomage NT
    BruteForceX 61 Neutral Opifex Fixer
    SmokingGunsX 43/2 Neutral Solitus Soldier
    SixOfNynex 42/2 Neutral Nanomage Engineer
    Jiroieyoshi 12/2 Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    EMHMarkX 32/2 Neutral Nanomage Doctor

  5. #25
    Please elaborate.
    New Engine - Announced: June 2007 ETA: Soon™ I'm speechless (June 2015)
    Rebalancing - Announced: January 2009 ETA: December 21, 2012 Started! (April 2015)
    New TL7 Pets - Announced: March 2009 ETA: Uh...
    AS Changes - Announced: July 2009 ETA: TBA
    Parry/Riposte - Announced: October 2009 ETA: ??? Did it! (April 2015)
    Perk Changes - Announced: October 2009 ETA: Right after server merge Started! (April 2015)
    Breed Change - Announced: November 2009 ETA: Hell freezing They did it!!! (Oct 2012)
    Beta Server - Announced: January 2010 ETA: Pigs Flying Did it! (Feb 2014)

  6. #26
    Look on GMS..
    SmokeX 210/23 Neutral Opifex MA General of Spirit Walkers
    SmokeKillsU 81/3 Neutral Opifex Agent
    UraniumX 101/2 Neutral Nanomage NT
    BruteForceX 61 Neutral Opifex Fixer
    SmokingGunsX 43/2 Neutral Solitus Soldier
    SixOfNynex 42/2 Neutral Nanomage Engineer
    Jiroieyoshi 12/2 Neutral Atrox Enforcer
    EMHMarkX 32/2 Neutral Nanomage Doctor

  7. #27
    These threads depress me since the only people supporting tradeskill-based nanocasting are either noobs or have never played an engi.

    AND YET it's still on the table. *grumble grumble*

    I'm with Smoke on one part, though. It makes even LESS SENSE to do this ONLY to engis. We're not the ones getting crippled so much by having tradeskills...Traders have it much worse.
    Last edited by MajorOutage; Feb 9th, 2012 at 19:27:40.
    Because Race Yalm

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    These threads depress me since the only people supporting tradeskill-based nanocasting are either noobs or have never played an engi.

    AND YET it's still on the table. *grumble grumble*
    You dont really need to have profession X to discuss what the concept of that profession should be. Discussing what an engineer needs atm to be balanced is a different story. But you will find that more people support tradeskill nanos because it makes more sense, rather than because it will make engis uber. So yeah, my engi is level 10, but I can argue just as well as you on this matter
    Lilkueg 220/26/6x Opifex Shade
    Kuegen 211/11 Atrox Enforcer
    And Many More!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuegen View Post
    You dont really need to have profession X to discuss what the concept of that profession should be.
    Right, but without experience you may not understand the implications of making certain changes, especially so late in the game.

    But you will find that more people support tradeskill nanos because it makes more sense, rather than because it will make engis uber.
    On a clean sheet of paper, the concept makes sense. Implementing it now does not. I and many others have put alot of work into our engis to get them where they are, and this switchover puts much of that work down the drain. Learning to balance your skills is, as far as I'm concerned, an essential part of the profession. A point of pride, in fact. Now it will just become another IP faceroll because of whiners who couldn't figure that part out.

    I also think it's really ****ty thing to do from an administrative perspective to single out one profession so blatantly as "THE tradeskillers" especially when many of us are already sick of being treated like it's our obligation to build other players crap as it is.
    Last edited by MajorOutage; Feb 9th, 2012 at 22:46:41.
    Because Race Yalm

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    These threads depress me since the only people supporting tradeskill-based nanocasting are either noobs or have never played an engi.
    Clearly anyone who doesn't see it your way is a noob.
    Not seeing how this is beneficial to the engineer profession as a whole is extremely short sighted.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    What people don't get is that they are making a non-issue out of this. If you look at it, it's fundamentally just a name-change. I don't understand how putting IP in a stat named "Mechanical Engineering" is somehow offensive but putting IP in a stat named "Matter Creation" to achieve the same result is not. That's just dumb.
    I agree with this totally and will even take it a step further.

    The rebalance could just as easily given a new engi nano that boosts your tradeskills to equal your mc/ts. Would that be a better solution?
    ~Anyone can level, but only the wise gain experience~

    *Bronto Burger, serving 10,000 high level noobs daily*

    http://wolf-brigade.webs.com/

    My Story

    Don't feed the Mensa Tralalalala

    Everyday I'm Shuffling.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    These threads depress me since the only people supporting tradeskill-based nanocasting are either noobs or have never played an engi.
    I think people like yourself should drop the whole concept that if people don't agree with your position, they are noobs or simply ignorant of engis.

    There is nothing fundamentally breaking about making nanos require tradeskills instead of nanoskills. It's simply a difference in labelling, PERIOD. The fact that people like yourself can't recognize that implies your simply being stubborn and resistant to change for no better reason other than feeling good you disagree with something.

    As much as everyone says it's a terrible idea, I haven't actually seen anyone post why that position makes any logical sense.
    Last edited by Obtena; Feb 10th, 2012 at 21:27:44.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    As much as everyone says it's a terrible idea, I haven't actually seen anyone post why that position makes any logical sense.
    Because he doesn't like the idea of having a crapton of free IP but enjoys swapping a full set of armor to do things that rarely even benefit himself. He considers it skill to have done 2nd grade math to whip up a min/max setup where he can have minimum number of tskills while being able to keep a max dmg one. Srsly man, get over yourself. Everyone and their mother recognizes this as a bone thrown our way, quit biting the hand that feeds you while trying to protect some elitist image that nobody but you gives a damn about.

    I'll gladly take the extra IP I'll get from resetting those blue skills I had to raise to cast a single pvp buff while enjoying the ability to tskill without having to swap a bag of nonsense.
    Waiting for a cure.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by smokex View Post
    Exactly Cogline. I think some people are against it because it would make it easier for other people to make competing tradeskillers. The value of their elite tradeskill items would lower because others would be able to do the same thing more easily. Eliteist attitude once again. If this is done for engis,

    I think something similar should be done for other professions though.
    Something similar should be done for Traders.
    Other professions with blue ts ip should be able to use their ts more easily:
    Some doc nano lines should require pt.
    Some fixer lines should require b&e like the GSF line.
    And an NT line should require the same skills necessary to make nanos.
    would you like to first level one of those profs to 220 as a start before making suggestions for more unsubstantiated and frankly thoughtless ip sinks?


    Quote Originally Posted by smokex View Post
    Look on GMS..
    that doesnt even make any sense? the only expensive craftable things on gms are 300 supplebased combined armors and those are only that high because of the mindbogglingly inane droprates on supple bots and not because they're of any difficulty to make.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mostadio View Post
    He considers it skill to have done 2nd grade math to whip up a min/max setup where he can have minimum number of tskills while being able to keep a max dmg one.
    Actually, I seem to be one of the few going around saying "STFU IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO DO."

    So, yeah, apparently it is a skill alot of people around here seem to be missing.

    Srsly man, get over yourself. Everyone and their mother recognizes this as a bone thrown our way, quit biting the hand that feeds you while trying to protect some elitist image that nobody but you gives a damn about.
    The premise still stands that it's being done for the whiney facerollers, and I don't like that even if it does somehow benefit me.
    Last edited by MajorOutage; Feb 13th, 2012 at 00:13:06.
    Because Race Yalm

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorOutage View Post
    Actually, I seem to be one of the few going around saying "STFU IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO DO."

    So, yeah, apparently it is a skill alot of people around here seem to be missing.



    The premise still stands that it's being done for the whiney facerollers, and I don't like that even if it does somehow benefit me.
    I don't think that's being honest really. It's whiney facerolling to have access to a professions complete toolset? For some reason, you seem to believe that's unreasonable, just because you managed to figure it out? Really, none of that is relevant anyways. Your hangup is about labels and if changing labels makes a profession more playable for more people, that's a good thing.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    I don't think that's being honest really. It's whiney facerolling to have access to a professions complete toolset? For some reason, you seem to believe that's unreasonable, just because you managed to figure it out? Really, none of that is relevant anyways. Your hangup is about labels and if changing labels makes a profession more playable for more people, that's a good thing.
    The thing is, it doesn't even make it more playable, it just streamlines it and makes the profession more intuitive. No more asking "why are the bulk of my cheap skills completely useless in combat?"
    Waiting for a cure.

  18. #38
    I was looking at this from a practicality viewpoint. I use Nanoskills to create a bot shell. I then use Tradeskills to make a trimmer to adjust the bot. Then I go back to using Nanoskills to "heal" i.e. repair the bot. Excuse me? I'd like this straightened out soonest, thanks. And we're still using Nanoskills for buffs, shields etc which I'm more than fine with. It's just this swapping skill sets for ACTUAL ENGINEERING that's never made any sense to me. Sorry, but there it is.
    I'm a Froob Neutral Trade Skilling Nanomage Engineer- by definition I hide round corners and let the bot do the fighting.

  19. #39
    I think the 'concept' is actually genius. It's a fairly brave design decision to say 'let's break the mould here and make this prof act in a different manner'. Now, in terms of balance I'll leave those better educated and more experienced, but I don't think we should be burning development teams for trying to think in a non-linear manner.

    It would be easy to suggest other profs should follow suit, docs using first aid and treatment, fixers using Breaking and Entry to hack those ncu's, Enfo's using Body Dev for Mongo? you really could go to town. The problem becomes IP sinks. Nano's give 6 different bars for us to balance our IP around, and in some cases that leads to some decision making. Most profs have maybe 1 or 2 skills that you could say 'define' them in some way or another, which simply isn't enough of an IP choice to replace 6 nano skills with. The Engi tradeskill decision seems to just 'fit' because there are a comparable number of skills for investment which means it can almost be shoe'd in.

    Maybe the concept at heart is broader and only Engi has the right synergy right now?

    I think it's actually a brave and interesting direction. But yes, I do of course agree that it shouldn't be undertaken if it seriously undermined the profession. Lamentably I don't know enough about Engy to comment on that particular point. I used to have Muhandes sat on my shoulder and since his departure I've become slack jawed where Engy is concerned
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Grumpy "Siorai" Oldgit - 220.25 Clan Atrox Doctor - Screenshot - Equip (old)

    First trox doc on RK1 using Blades of Boltar.

    My Spirit Shroud Hell - Over 1400 kills with no drop.
    ------------------------------------------------------------

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Siorai2 View Post
    I think the 'concept' is actually genius. It's a fairly brave design decision to say 'let's break the mould here and make this prof act in a different manner'. Now, in terms of balance I'll leave those better educated and more experienced, but I don't think we should be burning development teams for trying to think in a non-linear manner.

    It would be easy to suggest other profs should follow suit, docs using first aid and treatment, fixers using Breaking and Entry to hack those ncu's, Enfo's using Body Dev for Mongo? you really could go to town. The problem becomes IP sinks. Nano's give 6 different bars for us to balance our IP around, and in some cases that leads to some decision making. Most profs have maybe 1 or 2 skills that you could say 'define' them in some way or another, which simply isn't enough of an IP choice to replace 6 nano skills with. The Engi tradeskill decision seems to just 'fit' because there are a comparable number of skills for investment which means it can almost be shoe'd in.

    Maybe the concept at heart is broader and only Engi has the right synergy right now?

    I think it's actually a brave and interesting direction. But yes, I do of course agree that it shouldn't be undertaken if it seriously undermined the profession. Lamentably I don't know enough about Engy to comment on that particular point. I used to have Muhandes sat on my shoulder and since his departure I've become slack jawed where Engy is concerned
    Basically, any time an engi feels the need for more IP, tradeskills are the first thing to get sacrificed.
    Waiting for a cure.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •