Why balance is futile

[Obtena]

/me laughs when people justify changes to an MMO based in the 240th century based on what is the reality of 20th century technology.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter. As long as FC and program it, it CAN be put in the game.

[Hotdog]

Forget the year AO is in. Now, imagine it's 1942, and you're young Russian living on the outskirts of Stalingrad.

/me laughs when people justify changes to an MMO based in the 240th century based on what is the reality of 20th century technology.

Your father has passed away, and, one of two possessions he has left you is a heavy fur coat. The other is a bolt action Mosin-Nagant rifle - standard issue for Russian snipers in the second world war.

The German army is situated on the east bank of the Volga River, with Italian and Romanian troops guarding their flanks. The Germans have bombed the **** out of Stalingrad prior to the invasion, and you, swearing allegiance to your deceased father, and Mother Russia, set off to fight the Germans.

The winter is coming but you know the language, and you know your camerades will provide what they can. The Germans, however, will not be so lucky.

You goal is to find a location where you can see movement of German troops across the Volga River. At a distance of 400 yards, the building you have chosen is directly across from a small German command post.

You choose the 6th floor and you position yourself in the lower left of a window that has a been partially smashed. It is cold but you know it's colder outside. This position is a good one and it will only be a matter of time before you will see the commander.

You are a skilled rifleman. Your father was a good man and taught you to shoot in the forest close to your home. You could pick off deer, from 350 yards, in the dead of winter with nearly no feeling in your hands. This, you think, will be no different.

Each day you arrive on the sixth floor with a small packet of biscuits, some pemmican and flask of water. Your comerade has shown you the badge that the German commander wears. It is not your goal to kill the German infantry. It is your goal to kill the commander. It only requires one shot.

It is four days before you see your target. He is slightly taller than the other men, slender, and he wears his hat perked up, as though he is unaware of the winter hardships for him in store. Most of those men, across the Volga, have never been this far north. Their jackets, their boots, are not made for the wrath of Mother Russia's cruel winter. You know he will die warm, well before winter arrives.

You will put a bullet through his neck and the blood will be warm in his hands. He will die before winter freezes his bones.

The scope on this rifle is set back towards the butt which means that your head position can be higher. This also means you can watch your target without your scope, then immediately duck down - while keeping the barrel steady. You watch his movements, he is looking at a map, and talking with two men of lower rank. You will execute him before he is able to make his command known. His movements are jerky, you can tell, he is hungry. His movements are the way that animals in the forest are, when the snow has fallen and there is little to eat. When his movements are slower, he is an easier target. You wait. Instinctively, you know that he has cigarettes. Cigarettes make men slower, you can see it in their eyes, and hear it in their words. You have watched your father and his friends play cards. The vodka helps, but, the cigarettes work wonders.

A faint orange glow protrudes from near his face. In 45 seconds, the nicotine will his his bloodstream, and his body will loosen, the grip of hungry easing. You release the safety.

You slip the finger cover from your glove, the trigger is smooth and cold. The commander blows gray smoke over the head of his junior officer.

The crack of your rifle shatters the silence, and the commander falls backwards, the cigarette still glowing, but his hands are clutching his chest. The shot was 4 inches lower than where you aimed. It is still a fatal shot, but, he will not die for a few hours. He may forget to issue his command you think.

Tomorrow, you will adjust your rifle, and make sure that it shoots where you want it to.

That is a snipe shot.

A pistol does not do that.

thanks for that

[AyyRawn]

/me laughs when people justify changes to an MMO based in the 240th century based on what is the reality of 20th century technology.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter. As long as FC and program it, it CAN be put in the game.

+1/2 for almost bringing this thread back on topic.

Anyway I feel like we can disprove any theories created by the OP by saying that if it's done correctly, it's not something that will be completely done in vain. Although I feel like that's a funny statement that you made, considering the possibility of you coming up in arms against something that FC cooks up, thus completely contradicting your "I'm ok with this" tone that I'm getting from it. Anyway, as on pistols post-balance just sounds ridiculous because of my reasons stated previously. The sensible choice would be to leave as on rifles, where it's typically found, because for the most part, as is supposed to be an attack that is much like firing off a high-powered round from a high-powered gun, such as a rifle. Otherwise as should just be on all guns, because we all aim a gun when we fire it, and then we shoot, thus making that shot an "Aimed Shot".

And that's all I really want to say on the topic.

Also with that reasoning, FC might as well not even bother to listen to us, they should just go ahead and create whatever the hell they want and put it in-game, simply because " it CAN be put in the game."

[Wakizaka]

The sensible choice would be to leave as on rifles, where it's typically found, because for the most part, as is supposed to be an attack that is much like firing off a high-powered round from a high-powered gun, such as a rifle.

Realistically speaking, you can also fire off an Aimed Shot from an Assualt Rifle so you could have AS on that. Of course AS & FA should lock each other out and the AS on an AR would have to be less destructive than AS from a Rifle that's actually built for powerful single shots.

[Manicmouse]

Realistically speaking, you can also fire off an Aimed Shot from an Assualt Rifle so you could have AS on that. Of course AS & FA should lock each other out and the AS on an AR would have to be less destructive than AS from a Rifle that's actually built for powerful single shots.

Bow should have AS too "realistically", I mean John Rambo c'mon!!

[Wakizaka]

Bow should have AS too "realistically", I mean John Rambo c'mon!!

Mongolian Horseback Archers > John Rambo when it comes to shooting distance with a bow

[Psikie]

Otherwise as should just be on all guns, because we all aim a gun when we fire it, and then we shoot, thus making that shot an "Aimed Shot".

Thats what I should have said, if you can have AS on pistols may as well have it on all ranged weapons.

Realistically speaking, you can also fire off an Aimed Shot from an Assualt Rifle so you could have AS on that. Of course AS & FA should lock each other out and the AS on an AR would have to be less destructive than AS from a Rifle that's actually built for powerful single shots.

Keep in mind the .50cal rifle, probably one of the most powerfull and accurate weapons in the world has nasty AP rounds that can penetrate armor plated vehicals. That weapon also has a full auto mode. So even with 20th century archaic weapons you can AS over a mile and still use FA on same weapon.

[Notcrattey]

A pistol does not do that.

A rifle also doesn't shoot more than 40 meters in this game.

But that's besides the point. The fact of the matter is that it isn't 1942 and weapons have improved.

I mean if you want to belittle everything in scifi, and in this game, and compare it to 20th and 21st century technology, we could be here a while.

[Hotdog]

Well, in AO, max range is 40m or whatever.

I would say, that if you want to use Aimed shot with correct mechanics, the devs' should implement a crawl/scope feature for any prof who wants to use it, and the scoping feature will magnify the area they are pointing at, and they can shoot up to 1000m away.

every other "aimed shot" you guys keep talking about is just a standard shot.

I mean, really, what do you do with a pistol? spend 4 minutes aiming? no, the barrel length and low level of stability+kickback are going to foul up the first 3:50 seconds of your aiming procedure anyway.

The only real AIMED shot is one that is aimed using stabilisation, possibly cover and a long barrel gun.

you can't do an AIMED shot with an assault rifle, it has too short of a barrel (most, anyway).

shotguns.... meh. bows, yes, but much shorter range, like 850m on a rifle vs 80m max on a bow.

[Utopian]

A rifle also doesn't shoot more than 40 meters in this game.

But that's besides the point. The fact of the matter is that it isn't 1942 and weapons have improved.

I mean if you want to belittle everything in scifi, and in this game, and compare it to 20th and 21st century technology, we could be here a while.

i think we may be.....

[Otansaanpas]

I would say, that if you want to use Aimed shot with correct mechanics, the devs' should implement a crawl/scope feature for any prof who wants to use it,

The only real AIMED shot is one that is aimed using stabilisation, possibly cover and a long barrel gun.

you can't do an AIMED shot with an assault rifle, it has too short of a barrel (most, anyway).

shotguns.... meh. bows, yes, but much shorter range, like 850m on a rifle vs 80m max on a bow.

yes yes, this is how things are going to be in the future. we all can stop living now because there is no room for improvements. nothing to look forward to.

there is nice videos on youtube about pendulum swing stabilization and recoil reduction mechanics among other things.
people of AO had more than enough time to develope aimedshot to not require 4 minutes of camping.

its a sci-fi game, not ww1 simulation

A rifle also doesn't shoot more than 40 meters in this game.

perhaps nanobots can calculate bullet trajectory and reinforce armor on the location of the impact to counter all damage while the bullet travels that 40 meters.. and weapon chooses not to fire at all because it would be pointless?

[AyyRawn]

yes yes, this is how things are going to be in the future. we all can stop living now because there is no room for improvements. nothing to look forward to.

there is nice videos on youtube about pendulum swing stabilization and recoil reduction mechanics among other things.
people of AO had more than enough time to develope aimedshot to not require 4 minutes of camping.

its a sci-fi game, not ww1 simulation


perhaps nanobots can calculate bullet trajectory and reinforce armor on the location of the impact to counter all damage while the bullet travels that 40 meters.. and weapon chooses not to fire at all because it would be pointless?

These arguments are starting to remind me of how we "predicted" flying cars and intelligent androids would be in existence about...now :P
Anyway, ok so what if we've mastered the technology behind recoil reduction and gun stabilization, that still doesn't justify a hand gun or almost any other weapon doing more damage than a high-powered rifle. If that's the case, then wtb patch that makes my smgs do hella damage, because apparently they should be able to if handguns can equal the power of sniper rifles.
Just throwing that out there.

[Wakizaka]

Keep in mind the .50cal rifle, probably one of the most powerfull and accurate weapons in the world has nasty AP rounds that can penetrate armor plated vehicals. That weapon also has a full auto mode. So even with 20th century archaic weapons you can AS over a mile and still use FA on same weapon.

I hope the recoil dampening is great on it, because I would hate to feel my shoulder after unleashing a Full Auto from one of those.

[Manicmouse]

bows, yes, but much shorter range, like 850m on a rifle vs 80m max on a bow.

Bow at 169 metres

[Raggy]

Bow at 169 metres

That's hell of an aim.

[Sromp]

Bump for giving Mongolian Horseback Archers the ability to snipe with RPGs.


On topic:
Balance is futile because the uncertainty principle prevents us from correctly positioning the game's constrained waveform. Also, it's kind of wiggly and keeps slipping off.

[AyyRawn]

Bump for giving Mongolian Horseback Archers the ability to snipe with RPGs.


On topic:
Balance is futile because the uncertainty principle prevents us from correctly positioning the game's constrained waveform. Also, it's kind of wiggly and keeps slipping off.

Well...
We're still playing.
We're still on the forums.
AOU's still in existence.

We're probably looking at a very non-futile balance.

[Mostadio]

Mongolian Horseback Archers > John Rambo when it comes to shooting distance with a bow

Yabut their arrows didn't turn communists into hamburger.

[Sromp]

Well...
We're still playing.
We're still on the forums.
AOU's still in existence.

We're probably looking at a very non-futile balance.

*facepalm*

[AyyRawn]

*facepalm*

Hush up 2010 :P