Friday with(out) Means - Sept. 30th, 2011: More Pictures? More Pictures.

[Mastablasta]

Shadows are usually the first thing they tell people to turn down if their hardware sucks. That's why most of the gameplay videos have shadows turned off. If AO's new engine selling point is funky shadows (which are, in a word, too heavy and do not diminish fast enough from their lightsource, hence the "spotlighting" effect), which is also the first thing many people switch off, then you aren't getting any bang for your years of buck. Better textures, polygons, special effects, etc. carry the gameplay (admittedly we haven't seen any special effects yet). But it sure is funny you trumpeting one of the features most people turn off first, and even what most devs will tell you to turn off first.

Well, since it runs just stellar in AoC with shadows on max, then it would run even better in AO. That people turn it off first is in general just one of those "I like it better without shadows than I do with antialiasing" even though proper shadows are the one, biggest impactgiver on visuals. Far beyond everything else. Always something that wonders me that that's what people are willing to turn off.

Actually, it can't match CryEngine 1 atm for detail. The key to a successful engine is balance, because things that aren't up to standard make the experience painfully disjointed. Everything has to have a "sameness" in quality about it (i.e. you can't have amazing background scenery and terrible character animations, eg. Tabula Rasa or horrible polygon counts, eg. AO preview), but there's nothing right about the current engine. The shadows that you people are raving about are wrong, as stated above. The water is terrible. The ground is terrible. The landscape is barren and lego-modelly. The avatars are the old one. I don't know, but unless they're at least a full 18 months away from engine going live, then ok, they can be where they are now.

Ah, balance, something we always knew was not going to be present in the engine upgrade for AO. There was always going to be the clash between more modern features and geometry from 1999. And the inclusion of better this or that would make the differences stand out even more. Which was one of the reasons stated for not wanting to upgrade things. Technically it easily matches Cryengine 1 for detail, because, really, that again is you talking about resources when it's not resources that are up for debate, but the engine update. How are the shadows wrong? Yes, they may be a bit too sharp from some objects, but that's just how things like that work. They are not present now, and they look rather a lot better than not having anything at all.
The water in AoC looks stellar compared to anything that is currently out in games, except perhaps Crysis 1.

Remember when the engine was supposed to come out in 18.0? And remember when the videos they released gave the ability to "wow" people and people started to think this might be a way to get people back to AO? Now you guys (not FC mind you) are downgrading expectations to the point where it is simply a renderer transition ... iow there will be no flood of players back, there will be no marketing selling points in the new engine, there is no further investment/commitment from FC in this game. Players who aren't pulling the wool over their own eyes want a game that developers are committed to. It's fine for you to win the forum war by arguing that there should be zero expectations from the engine, but the real loser is in fact the game. Some of us still want the game to be something more. Others are defending the decrepit state it is in at any cost. It's an odd situation to find yourself in.

Yes, I remember perfectly, but it's obvious that you don't. It was said repeatedly that it was a renderengine update. There wasn't even going to be new textures or anything, just some updated rendering and maybe a few free effects, like the grass and horrible reflective water seen in the initial video released way back.
But yes, you're right in saying that it was "people" who started thinking all this stuff, because there was never anything from FC about how this would be the new coming of a technological messiah, as it seems you have somehow turned the expectations into. If you go back and read, you'll also find that there's never been any raving from my side on how this would be any technological rebirth of the PC platform and how this would totally transform the game from something dead to something vibrant with millions of players. Because that would be completely unrealistic.

Nobody ever said that. But certainly the old previews were intended to "wow" the player, now it's all about managing expectations. But looking as good as Farcry 1 from 2004 might be nice.

But, they did say that. Like I said, initialy there weren't even going to be new resources. And well, with new ground textures and the AoC grass, you'll be rather far beyond how Far Cry 1 looks.

Are you talking about AO's new "grass" that looks exactly like the 2005 Old Athens update grass? Billboarding grass in Aion is a matter of graphics settings btw - it intersperses sufficient shrubbery to make the earth look earthy.

I don't know what you're talking about here. I guess you didn't see the video of the character walking through the grass in Tir. Or see the grassmapping that is in Age of Conan. It's not like the grass in OA, or other places in AO, which is done by manually placing each sprite. A grassmap is just painted over an area and then generates a field of grass depending on whatever parameters are set for it.

Emperor's New Clothes obviously. The video you linked is not what the game looks like on anything better than a integrated graphics chip, the "HD" refers to the resolution the video was shot at presumably xD I'm not exactly sure what part of Aion you have played, but you'd know for a fact if you visited the game locations (hint try the starter areas for Elyos).

I never played it, naturally, Korean grind games are not for me, I just looked at a bunch of videos and screenshots, and those on youtube looks exactly like the screenshots and videos on the game's site. Sorry man, it just isn't up to par technologically with what AO presents with the new engine. Geometrically, it's better, but it can't hold up to what is on display with AO's new renderer.
Also, I guess you didn't see the rendershots of the buildings from a while ago. Naturally, they have to look exactly the same as they do now only more detailed.

You can play at a polygonal count pretty enough to see your toon look awesome. Obviously you haven't tried yet. The level of detail they provide for screenshots is just icing. The fact you are desperately trying to denigrate what is widely regarded as one of the most visually "technically and artistically" impressive "visually stunning" MMOs out atm tells me about who is the trolling one xD (Before you ask, the grind got to me, I didn't continue after 2 months for that reason)

You can't ever see anything like that. I played a bunch of the new MMOs that let you design your billlions of settings, like AoC, and APB with their millions of settings for how you want your character to look. And in all my time playing that, I can't think of any point in time when I ever actually looked at my own character, or looked at any of the other players in a way that would ever highlight the extreme granularity of details. Highlighting characters uber customization in an MMO always felt stupid to me. Noone's ever going to see what you made, the only one who will is yourself oggling your character during the design phase.

Mind you I'm not saying that I expect AO to look as good as Aion, I don't expect anywhere close. But I would like them to do more with technology that's been around for 7 years, as Aion did with its 2004 CryEngine1.

lol i thought you claimed to be the troll. since you obviously didn't read a thing I said, I never asked for a revolution, merely catching up with 5-year-old technology. Edit: beyond a funky shadow trick

You specifically said in your post that I quoted that you were expecting a graphical revolution, a completely new approach to realtime 3D technology, where we'd go beyond the way of displaying 3D that we do now, with flat surfaces upon which we paint bitmaps. I don't know where you got anything like that from, or where you got any of the "AO will be a completely new game, not just a render upgrade with some new resources done by a total of 3 guys" which was never ever stated anywhere on the forums. Renderengine upgrade, to let the game handle new hardware and not die because people are no longer able to run it. Renderengine. Not the entirety of the graphical resource library.

[Chrys]

Yes, I remember perfectly, but it's obvious that you don't. It was said repeatedly that it was a renderengine update. There wasn't even going to be new textures or anything, just some updated rendering and maybe a few free effects, like the grass and horrible reflective water seen in the initial video released way back.

ok that makes this easy then: What would you say would be a realistic timetable to achieve a mere renderengine update (from an engine that already exists) on this minimalistic scale?

[Rktim]

Get a room!

[Chrys]

hai timmeh

[Demoder]

ok that makes this easy then: What would you say would be a realistic timetable to achieve a mere renderengine update (from an engine that already exists) on this minimalistic scale?

An answer to the question you should be asking, may be found here.

[Chrys]

I haven't flamed anyone nor gotten personal. I criticised their work and pointed out what I saw as wrong with it. You know, like stuff that happens in newspaper columns every day over terribad movies, plays, books, performances, etc etc

Why would I apologize for that

[Demoder]

I haven't flamed anyone. I criticised their work and pointed out what I saw as wrong with it. You know, like stuff that happens in newspaper columns every day over terribad movies, plays, books, performances, etc etc

Why would I apologize for that

I never said you should, but you obviously think that's what I meant. Maybe there's some truth to it then?

[Chrys]

lol you linked a thread called apology and said i should be doing it

Edit: before your ninja edit

[Demoder]

lol you linked a thread called apology and said i should be doing it

You're amazingly quick at replying.. Wonder why.
Anyway, where did I say you should be apologizing?

See original post:

An answer to the question you should be asking, may be found here.

[Chrys]

wat

[Mastablasta]

ok that makes this easy then: What would you say would be a realistic timetable to achieve a mere renderengine update (from an engine that already exists) on this minimalistic scale?

No idea, I'm not a 3D programmer or familiar with how AO is integrated with its renderer. Obviously far more time than what would be considered reasonable. But I guess that's what you get when you can only put one guy on the job. id software's Rage took something like 7 years to develop, and one might call that a mere rendering engine update, according to some people. At least I'm having some difficulty believing that they worked hard on the gameplay, story and so on, for all that time :|

[Chrys]

so we are in agreement!

[Delerium]

id software's Rage took something like 7 years to develop, and one might call that a mere rendering engine update, according to some people.|

That doesn't even WORK properly and looks worse then DOOM3 when it does work!!!!
GG id....

I'd say AO's new engine is in great shape compared to that

[Mastablasta]

That doesn't even WORK properly and looks worse then DOOM3 when it does work!!!!
GG id....

I'd say AO's new engine is in great shape compared to that

Yea, saw that one. I just played through Doom 3 though, and I am rather sure that that screenshot uses some texturepack. But yea, I guess you need to sacrifice some things if you want to run large open areas on a console.

[Thecrow91]

FIRST! I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE teh DAY!

[Joralf]

FIRST! I NEVER THOUGHT I'D SEE teh DAY!

lol first as in number 135? :P

[Rktim]

lol first as in number 135? :P

A number good as any? :3

[Warhead]

The mysterious screenshot is obviously a positron collider! That means we're going to hunt and catch ghosts during halloween. Exciting.

[NoGoal]

Yea, saw that one. I just played through Doom 3 though, and I am rather sure that that screenshot uses some texturepack. But yea, I guess you need to sacrifice some things if you want to run large open areas on a console.

Actually, that megatexture thing in Quake Wars (and now in Rage) is not good for large areas and takes a lot of space which is not good for consoles.

I'm not sure as to why ID decided to continue to work on this and plan to improve it with IDTech 6. Probably a nerd/geek thing.

[Mastablasta]

Actually, that megatexture thing in Quake Wars (and now in Rage) is not good for large areas and takes a lot of space which is not good for consoles.

I'm not sure as to why ID decided to continue to work on this and plan to improve it with IDTech 6. Probably a nerd/geek thing.

Space, who cares. Consoles can install to harddrives, and have 25gb discs. It's also quite fine for large areas, and the visuals look great and workflow in creating those visuals is more efficient than it is with the regular limited textures. Probably more efficient too, when done properly, as you only have the texture you want to display, and don't have to think about other textures.