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Thread: Balance, nice! Now make it worth the effort!

  1. #1

    Balance, nice! Now make it worth the effort!

    What I mean?

    It's very nice that Funcom is working on a rebalance to make pvm and pvp more fun.
    But the pvp experience today is nothing close to what it once was.

    Current state of player versus player in AO (RK2):
    - Daily a few battlestation rounds to mainly get the mission done.
    - Occasionally there are towerbattles (with around 20-80 players total).
    - Handfull of people duel and fight with flags.

    The rebalance will not keep pvp interesting for the new/returning people who check it out.
    Ofcourse it will attract old and new players that will come and check out the changes.
    Ofcourse you will see more pvp'ers showing up.. but when they got their VP and got their daily.. no real reward/goal is left.
    Remember the times when NT's and traders were worth nothing in pvp?
    So it wasn't balanced at all.. but was there pvp activity? HELL YES!
    Just think of the pvp at 2HO, FT, Bor pvp.. duelling in the Tir/Omni ent arena's!

    My point is.. there should be a personal pvp reward/goal that reflects skill.
    I hope you all agree that the current pvp system reflects the amount of farmed kills.
    If you have lots of time on your hands.. you can get a sick amount of kills.
    It does not reflect skill, it only shows that you are able to kill a player.

    I believe that we can think of a system that is better for everyone.
    My suggestion would improve the pvp experience for underequipped and high end pvp'ers.
    Underequipped/lower players won't get farmed as much and endgame players will fight eachother for a reward.

    Just a few suggestion threads I could find regarding pvp systems:
    Suggestion regarding pvp ranks
    Suggestion to bring back old system
    Suggestion to revamp how pvp works
    Suggestion to slightly change current system
    Suggestion to switch to a rank system
    Suggestion to go back to the old system with current duel option
    Another suggestion to bring back the old system
    Again someone who would love to get the old system back
    Last edited by Harios; Aug 24th, 2011 at 17:41:33.
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
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  2. #2
    It's my belief that personal rewards are not enough to 'make PVP interesting' so bringing back or making some other PVP title system isn't enough. Maybe they don't realize it but people that PVP a significant fraction of their time are immersing themselves into the AO story more than anyone else, second only to real RP people.

    If PVP is to be 'interesting and fresh' once Rebalance comes out, we need some updated or new org and factional game impacts with it. The personal rewards are only 'cool' to people that are individually really good at PVP to get the awesome personal rewards. Otherwise, the appeal of PVP to the average guy is minimal and it won't last. Title fixing isn't enough.
    Last edited by Obtena; Aug 24th, 2011 at 19:55:23.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  3. #3
    I agree with you there.. a new pvp ranking is only a small step in the right direction.
    But for the pvp'ers that have everything they want and need.. it is a reason to keep playing.
    I do not log in anymore with a pvp hunger.. I did when I was pvp'ing for my master title.
    The battlestation used to be my place to be for daily pvp points.
    Now I go there for VP and dailies like anyone else...
    Same with ganking.. it used to be real risky to try and gank someone with the same title.
    Now ganking is no real fun as there is nothing to gain or lose.

    Anyway this is only how I personally feel about it.. a new system would mean a lot to me.
    If you look at the threads I linked, I am not the only one...
    Harios - [Enforcer] cookies 220/30
    Advass - [Adventurer] nerf 220/21
    Wackios - [Shade] gankzsz 220/16
    Soldios - [Soldier] FA Burst 220/22
    Docios - [Doctor] healsplxz 220/20
    Cratios - [Bureaucrat] tape 220/19
    Proud Board Member of Dark Front Cookies >> Bacon, remember that!

  4. #4
    That's fair. I'm just hoping FC are looking beyond those simple things to make PVP appealing to everyone.
    Last edited by Obtena; Aug 25th, 2011 at 00:35:25.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  5. #5
    Not sure about 220 atm, but PVP would be interesting at 1-214 if it didnt concist of 4 people on each side leveling up and 1 or 2 twinks killing them all in less then 5 sec each.

    Twink vs Nontwink power ratio is so skewed it's not even funny

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by catdog View Post
    Not sure about 220 atm, but PVP would be interesting at 1-214 if it didnt concist of 4 people on each side leveling up and 1 or 2 twinks killing them all in less then 5 sec each.

    Twink vs Nontwink power ratio is so skewed it's not even funny
    In BS maybe.

    Tower Fights before 150 are great fun. None of this assist spam crap which makes PvP so boring it isn't even worth showing up for.
    Pricecuts - 220 Trader
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  7. #7
    How about we make a 10x10 room for all the "Extreme PVPers" where they can get all the changes they want and then balance the rest of the game more towards the people that just want to have fun.
    Proud member of New Order since 2009.

  8. #8
    Implement the old title system

    /fixed
    Darkempire 220/30/70 Agent
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    Quote Originally Posted by nums214 View Post
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternity View Post
    Implement the old title system

    /fixed
    please! :>
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  10. #10
    My 2 cents about the (for me) perfect pvp system / title system:

    *) remove title system at all as it is now
    *) aoe vp increasing buffs arround points(BS)/towers that are held by your faction
    *) vp for killing towers/ppl arround towers
    *) removal of pvp flag after tower wars
    *) increased vp in teams (25%-35% more than solo)
    *) small dropable battle gadgets for each class (aoe hot for docs, aoe add dmg for soldiers, increased nr for mp's, small aoe snares for fixers etc.) like the service towers for all classes buyable for vp (towers get used up in the process, stacks of 500 for reasonable vp cost)
    *) Ofab armor extended to ql 400 (requirements and stats do not need to be interpolated linearly but its ridiculous that lvl150 and lvl200 twinks wear the same armor as 220 chars.)
    *) Hats, social pvp items (for the look only) and title bracers that change the title over your head are wearable in social and buyable for vp. (heavy numbers for top title items)

    very experimental idea:
    *) 2 kinds of pvpve towers in sl but practically possible eveywhere: one kind that makes all mobs in a certain area only attackable by the team that planted it (maybe limit the placeable spots so the old heckspots remain the same). the other type does the same but opens all team members for pvp (only for one other team, no need for a mass gank fest at south spot) for 10 minutes every 90 minutes but adds 100% xp. both are good for "claiming" heckler spots and for a short period of "defending" the spot you gain extra xp.

    make parts of this game a team experience again. daily missions are like eve-offline leveling not the best to establish a stable teamplaying community.

    Ceterum censeo: the tile system never was about "skill". even in the good old days some people payed noobs to attack them or offered them hilarious sums if they could beat them to gain the higher tiles. not all thought.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternity View Post
    Implement the old title system

    /fixed
    Really ?

    You really think that going back to former title system will get more people to PvP ?

    Hell, when the former title system was changed to *add* more PvP, because most people used to hug their title and would not duel / flag / enter field / join BS if they werent sure to have enough friends and not too strong opposition.

    IMHO, 95% of the PvPers dont give a s*** about title... and 99.9 % of the "PvMers" dont either.

    So reverting to former system would please what ... 5 ? 6 ? players ?
    Those same players will revert to /afking in BS and will whine on forum to remove deserter I guess ?
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    IMHO, 95% of the PvPers dont give a s*** about title... and 99.9 % of the "PvMers" dont either.
    So what does the average spawn camper type of player "care" about? It's either about the VP to get the items or ePeen of any kind, mostly some shining titles or some shiny items. And all that rebalance crap would not be needed if people learned that this is a MULTIPLAYER game and not a "what can you solo"-contest.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    because most people used to hug their title and would not duel / flag / enter field / join BS if they werent sure to have enough friends and not too strong opposition.
    This.

    In all the 3 threads revolving around implementing the old system, everyone seems to ignore the fact that people simply pvp'd less just to protect some title.

    Also the old system didnt reflect pvp skill better, just that some players carefully selected their targets in order to get more points.
    Mirrors are more fun than television.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Garremp View Post
    So what does the average spawn camper type of player "care" about?
    They care about pwning green and stroking their epeen.
    // Break time //

    /\/\ Newcomers Alliance General and LMAA co-founder /\/\
    Froob for 3 years :
    Gridpain, Nfurter, Slayie, Forcedevente, Asafart, Theshrike, Whipingwillow, Malaucrane, Karmapolice.

    Sloob since 2009 :
    Coredumped,Needleworkr,Weepinwilljr,Gridpainjr,Bet amale,Lackwit,Dusttodust, Ouvreboite,Boohoohoo,Asafurt,Whatsthat,Aziraphale
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gridpain View Post
    Really ?

    You really think that going back to former title system will get more people to PvP ?

    Hell, when the former title system was changed to *add* more PvP, because most people used to hug their title and would not duel / flag / enter field / join BS if they werent sure to have enough friends and not too strong opposition.

    IMHO, 95% of the PvPers dont give a s*** about title... and 99.9 % of the "PvMers" dont either.

    So reverting to former system would please what ... 5 ? 6 ? players ?
    Those same players will revert to /afking in BS and will whine on forum to remove deserter I guess ?

    There is quite a large number of people who want the old system back, because the new one adds nothing. There is zero sense of danger.

    "Jeeei I got 10.000 kills on mah toon, woohoo!"

    Yeah that's and epic achievement...
    Darkempire 220/30/70 Agent
    {edited by Anarrina: see me if you have questions}
    When specifically asked for positive words, responding with a personal attack is incredibly rude and inappropriate. Please do not repeat such behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by nums214 View Post
    If my wife never got preggo omni wouldn't have lost their fields. 2009 is pretty much when I quit.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternity View Post
    There is quite a large number of people who want the old system back, because the new one adds nothing. There is zero sense of danger.

    "Jeeei I got 10.000 kills on mah toon, woohoo!"

    Yeah that's and epic achievement...
    do you know how hard it is to find 10k greens with today's population?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Alternity View Post
    There is quite a large number of people who want the old system back, because the new one adds nothing. There is zero sense of danger.

    "Jeeei I got 10.000 kills on mah toon, woohoo!"

    Yeah that's and epic achievement...
    If ppl didnt exploit the rank system. How many "Masters" have u seen, (or possess), that were farmed from friends? At least u know that ppl with 10K kills (or 15K ) actually pvp.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    If ppl didnt exploit the rank system. How many "Masters" have u seen, (or possess), that were farmed from friends? At least u know that ppl with 10K kills (or 15K ) actually pvp.
    or they macro killed some alt

    the way most people are running around these days with 2k+ duel wins and 0 titles lol
    Styxian MP overlord of Rk2


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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by X-Styx-X View Post
    the way most people are running around these days with 2k+ duel wins and 0 titles lol
    I've considered farming constantly rolled new alts on noob island for duel wins, which should also give good duel XP since every newly rolled alt is a new character you're beating.

    Never actually bothered, though.. All my duel wins are legit, honest!
    Hlep gnak!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunfytr View Post
    If ppl didnt exploit the rank system. How many "Masters" have u seen, (or possess), that were farmed from friends? At least u know that ppl with 10K kills (or 15K ) actually pvp.

    Yeah but having X number of kills says nothing, it only say you got to much time on your hands. I don't care about the guys that exploited the system. There were enough people who did not exploit it, like I've said before the old system had a sense of danger. And surviving a BS round without losing your title was a great feeling, heck getting a new title was even better!

    All that is gone with the new system.
    Darkempire 220/30/70 Agent
    {edited by Anarrina: see me if you have questions}
    When specifically asked for positive words, responding with a personal attack is incredibly rude and inappropriate. Please do not repeat such behavior.
    Quote Originally Posted by nums214 View Post
    If my wife never got preggo omni wouldn't have lost their fields. 2009 is pretty much when I quit.

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