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Thread: Keeper Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #1

    Keeper Nano Document Discussion Thread

    Some other professionals made this kind of thread and while I first thought that the document was self explanatory, it seems that a good amount of players have trouble to read it.

    Excel file can be found here. If link doesn't work anymore, go to

    1. Overview
    2. Auras changes
    3. Reverse knockback
    4. New Nemesis nano
    5. New Special Actions
    6. Other nanos
    7. Questions/Concerns/Comments (Post #2)
    8. Summary of Feedback (Post #3)

    1. Overview

    I always thought it wasn't fair for keepers to be excluded from active nano casting while we still had to focus on nano for our buffs/auras. Especially as we didn't get anything else unlike shades. We have the same amount of perks as other professions but no nanos to cast in fight and only 1 extra special attack.

    All this made the keeper profession really passive. Especially at low levels as you don't have as many perks as you do at 220. Some players like that relaxed gameplay though and turning keepers into casters after all these years would have been very odd.

    Developers really got that and gave us (what I believe to be) the best of both worlds. We won't be real casters as we still won't have to pay attention to our nanopool while getting more buttons to use in fight but we'll be now more vulnerable from nano debuffs.

    So what did they give us? First, we'll be able to `unleash` our auras. When we cast our auras, we get a special effect locking that aura line for some time. Second, we'll get more special attacks (like wrath/fury) based on and locking sneak attack or dimach. Last, we'll get the long-awaited get-over-here/grappling-hook/reverse knockback action as a new nano. It will `pull` the target to the keeper.

    Other changes are more about number balancing, as a good amount of nanos won't stack anymore, and requirements, which were a bit too high.

    2. Auras changes

    First, our lines are getting changed. We will now have 4 stacking auras with defined `roles`: Resist, Healing, Offensive and Defensive. Imminence aura will be split in two (AAO and AAD), Enervate will go to the Resist line, etc.

    The second big change is that we'll be able to `unleash` our auras to get a special effect at the cost of locking that aura line for some time. Please note that for Offensive and Defensive auras, the `unleashed` part doesn't stack with the regular buff.

    Third, the temporary buff of all auras will now last 60s and refresh faster (20s for all but ward and heal/nano auras).

    Last, our auras won't stack with other professions anymore. Ward conflicts with engineers, Barrier conflicts with engineer and soldier, Imminence conflicts with bureaucrats, Vengeance conflicts with soldier, etc.

    The Resist line will provide various resistances (duh) to the whole team. The `unleash` effect will remove debuffs it gives resistance to from the whole team. The different kinds of auras are: Root/snare resistance (20% resistance, 15s lock on best one), Blind resistance (20% resist, 10s lock), Stun resistance (20% resist, 10s lock), Initiative debuffs resistance (20%, 10s) and Fear resistance (100%, 10s).

    The Healing line won't change much except that it will now tick every 10s for both heal and nano auras. The `unleash` effect is a team (nano) heal worth 10 ticks with a 3 mins lock.

    The Offensive buffing line is now either Vengeance (add damage) or Revenge (AAO part from imminence). The `unleash`effect is a 10s self add damage or AAO buff with a 2 mins cooldown.

    The Defensive buffing line is almost the same as we have now. Imminence (minus the AAO), Ward or Barrier. Like the offensive counterpart, the `unleash` effect is a 10s self buff (AAD or blockers or reflects) with a 3 mins cooldown.

    Imminence will include the AAD from Fear resistance aura (15 AAD) and our last Parry/Riposte buff (12 AAD). The `unleash` effect id 3x the AAD for 10s.

    Ward will also provide a special attack blocker now.

    Barrier will provide good reflects but not as good as from engineers/soldiers auras. The `unleash` effect stacks with the aura or any other reflects buff. It means that you will keep RRFE even if you use the aura and get 44% reflects on top of it for a total of 74% reflects. (66% without RRFE.) The downside is that you won't get any other benefit from that aura if you have RRFE or are teamed with a soldier/engineer.

    3. Reverse knockback

    Keepers will get a new nano called Clarion Call. It will pull the target to the keeper and taunt it (scaling with level). 20m range, 30s cooldown and the target will be immune for 30s preventing another keeper to steal it from you *P.

    4. New Nemesis nano

    This put a nano on both target and keeper and if the target attacks the caster, it gets rooted. If he's wielding a ranged weapon he will also take damage.

    5. New Special Actions

    Keepers will now have 4 special actions (instead of 1) locking 2he, Melee Energy, Sneak Attack and Dimach. 2he and Melee Energy ones are in the same line but others aren't so you can have 3 at the same time.

    The 2he/Melee Energy ones are our current Fury/Wrath nanos. There won't be sided versions anymore and they will only do damage (no more healing). 10s lock instead of 15s now.

    The Sneak Attack one will snare your target for 5s scaling on your Sneak Attack skill. 30s recharge, can't use the regular Sneak Attack special during that time.

    The Dimach one will do damage and heal yourself. 2 mins lock, scales from your Dimach skill, can't use the regular Dimach during that time.

    6. Other nanos

    • Melee initiative buffs:
      • melee initiative will be removed from 2he buff so we'll get a new line instead.
      • won't stack with other initiative buffs.

    • 2he buffs:
      • no more melee initiative nor HP buffs.
      • Pure 2he buffs.

    • Parry/Riposte buffs:
      • no more AAD on last one (added to imminence)
      • whole line will also buffs dimach

    • Fast Attack buffs:
      • Sneak Attack amount raised to match Fast Attack.
      • No more AAO nor damage (added to appropriate auras).

    • Strength/Stamina/Agility buffs:
      • Agility raised to match other skills.
      • First 2 nanos can be cast on others (+15 and +25).
      • Still stack with Essence.

    • Evades buffs:
      • won't stack with other evades buffs anymore but will give more.

    • Procs:
      • all our procs are now on a 20% chance.
      • Our reaper procs will now heal a fixed amount instead of a % of damage done.
      • Damage type will now match your weapon.
    Last edited by NoGoal; Apr 6th, 2011 at 08:59:57. Reason: Typos *P

  2. #2
    7. Questions/Concerns/Comments
    • Duration/cooldown ratio on our `unleash` effects is too huge. Current cooldowns are more on a 30s/2mins ratio while auras will be either 10s/2mins (Offensive auras) or 10s/3mins. Make them buff less if needed.

    • The long cooldown on defensive line will prevent us to swap auras. Keepers would rather have a mechanic that favors auras swapping. Is it possible to have the cooldown lock either Imminence or Ward or Barrier instead of all 3?

    • As we'll be tanks, maybe we should get a HP buff like Soldiers and Enforcers.

    • Keepers' most useful weapon special is Brawl yet we get tons of Fast Attack buffs. We would rather get some Brawl love or have Fast Attack boosted.

    • The new special attacks scale on sneak attack or dimach skills but keepers have very low support for those skills at high levels. As attacks scale linearly but our skills don't, it means that they greatly improve at start when you can spend IPs and gear up but suddenly stops at TL5 and increases very slowly at TL7.

    • Clarion Call was said to have a different cooldown for PvE and PvP but the current document doesn't reflect this. Also, it should have a short duration snare upon casting to prevent the target to immediately run away from the keeper.
    Last edited by NoGoal; Apr 7th, 2011 at 09:45:14.

  3. #3
    8. Summary of Feedback

    Errors in the sheet:
    • Nemesis nano:
      • It lacks the `wield ranged weapon` requirement on the damaging proc
      • It lacks the `must attack keeper` requirement on both procs
    • Fury:
      • Last item for when you have 4000 ME skill has wrong values for the `User HeatText`
    Last edited by NoGoal; Apr 5th, 2011 at 19:06:18.

  4. #4

  5. #5
    I don't how our aura's don't stack with other profs aura's anymore. Like, I would rather be able to contribute 6% over a soldiers 28 or 30% in a team, instead of reflect/imminence now being completely useless in a team with sol/crat. The +dmg aura's stacking I don't think does any harm (especially since the buffs that go on lowbies will scale so they get the best buff they can get for their level). Our evade buff not stacking with the general line I'm not sure what to say about.. not sure what's best.

    Other than that though everything looks GREAT and I can't wait ^^

  6. #6
    Actually.. Seoin has an excellent point.

    Because we all definitly want keepers to be useful in teams, and, having auras is really cool, I would like to suggest an alternative to the "better auras but don't stack" idea:

    1. Break the buff aura into 2 parts, 1. base, 2. stack

    2. The Base buff checks to see if a better aura is already running, if it is, then it doesn't land

    3. the stack lands regardless.

    4. The Base could be 80%, the stack could be 20%, so, on a reflect aura of 24%, the base would be 19%, the stack would be 5%

    So this way, even if there is a sold/engi in team and they can offer a bigger base reflect, keepers can still enjoy contributing a small amount.

    Same goes for the AAD line.

  7. #7
    The point is to get rid of `mandatory` professions preventing some other professions to get invited in teams.

    The only thing I would change (about [non-]stacking auras) is the difference across professions. kpr/sold/engi should buff the same amount of reflects, crat/kpr same for aao/aad, kpr/sold same for add dmg, etc.

    No matter what, keepers still have their unique auras like ward, the resistance line and the tone/ambient line.

    Who wants to get into team because they are auras totems anyway? I'd rather get invited because I'm a good/useful profession as a whole and/or a good player.

  8. #8
    With the loss of Keeper aura's stacking I feel that the keeper is losing one thing that was important to it, if a little overpowered, I refer more to the homogenization and effective detraction if others are present. Our damage is naturally lower than most other professions, but we cause a team to become stronger, and when you transfer the boosting we give others back into ourselves, it becomes slightly less of a detriment.

    Example: A keeper buffs his team for 130 damage, with five team members that an additional 650 that is being caused by the team but has its source in the keeper. Note: It doesn't actually work this way exactly but clarifies the point made above.

    Though of course other professions have buffs as well, and if they do pass them out it becomes more substantial. However a unique method of approaching the lack of specials which the Keeper possesses as opposed to say: The Shade, our shadowland opposite with its supreme individual strength, would be specials which cause your team to make additional attacks, thereby bringing it more into line with others when factoring things back into one's self.

    Also: The point McKnuckle brought up, dividing our auras into two parts is even by itself interesting and unique (as far as I know). Though NoGoal did mention it as detrimental as now you're only looking at being that extra everyone wants, as bad as just being the fear ward in The Elder Hall. Perhaps causing some of our aura to have unique self effects along with the unleashes, such as a health booster on our ambience. Incorporating ideas I've seen elsewhere on the matter of detaunting auras to our AAD/AAO.

    Finally: Thumbs up for aura swapping.
    Last edited by Amerok; Oct 10th, 2011 at 15:40:05.

  9. #9
    I'm just now looking at the nano documents and perk changes, and man I'm dissapointed. I was hoping that we were going to be changed to where we were more useful in the healing department, with AOR becoming a viable option at higher levels. This removes us as being an important team component, as if you want the defensive buffs, you might as well pick up a soldier for that. I agree wit amerok in having our buffs give a unique effect of some sort, that way we at least become the "We want a keeper as support 9 times out of 10 in our group".

  10. #10
    Is this ever going to be implemented?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuniko View Post
    Is this ever going to be implemented?
    Probably not, it would make keepers competitive again, and we all know funcom doesn't want that

  12. #12
    I'm not sure but nanoskills for casting nanos will be reduced ? Currently there is need to swap lot of items to cast best nanos. And if they split effects to different nanos and we will need to cast more oftenly i cannot imagine how i make it without swaping each time.

  13. #13

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NoGoal View Post
    The only thing I would change (about [non-]stacking auras) is the difference across professions. kpr/sold/engi should buff the same amount of reflects, crat/kpr same for aao/aad, kpr/sold same for add dmg, etc.
    With non stacking auras i'm not sure how much i will like this unless...

    Our auras buff us self more than the buffs we cant stack with similar to how advy wolf aura where it buffs caster more than team when they are in wolf form. Otherwise it's kinda bad position to say, "Well we have crat so we don't need your aad aura, or we want engi because your reflect is crap."

    This wouldnt bother me so much if our self buff not including "unleashed" is as good or better than the auras that dont stack with us.
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  15. #15
    Okay, I have some concerns I'd like to share:

    Visibly, FC has planned keepers to go Melee Energy. Now, does that mean they will make the Melee Energy and Multi Melee skills green instead of dark blue? Will FC extend our shield line to be useful as complementary item? I guess we'll have to get another nanoline for buffing Melee Energy.

    Atm, we have our best shield that does lousy dmg (72-110(75)) (using 100% riposte skill for attack) and only adds a ****ty 40 AAD. If FC gives us the possibility to go dualwielding keep (melee energy), I'd like to have a useful shield. Something which adds ACs (for the sake of it, but shields are supposed to lower dmg), reflects, decent amount of AAD and maybe a little healproc on hit (keeper hit by monster/player). Keep parry and riposte skills on em. I like to play my keeper like the last man standing in a team, the lighthouse of the team.

    About dimach, why add another type of dimach? Just leave us one of both. I don't want to run around with 12 specials form which half are doubles that lock out the other half.

    Taking out healing from fury/wrath lines is not to my taste. It's one of the few little heals we could chose when we'd use em. Now, we lose it. Sure dimach will heal every 2 minutes now, but wrath was every 19s. And how big will the heal be? Don't forget we go from 19s -> 120s. That's a huge slowdown in our healing power. FC was seems to keep aiming for fast-paced battles, but atm, doesn't look like we'll have our healing keeping up. And a heal aura which runs every 10s instead of 20s is a good step to help us, but I'd like to see how it goes altogether when it comes out. I feel keepers will go from cool gameplay to a more nervous one, thing I don't want.

    As we'll have much more nanos to cast/cast more regularly, will nanocost be revised as well? Keeper nanos drained alot of nanopool because of their duration and power. Many nanos from other profs have reached comparable duration, but still much lower nanocost.

    Same question bout NCU cost. With all those lines broken up, I hope we'll get lower NCU reqs. I use atm 550ish NCU self iirc, and got 950 NCU self to get most of the useful osbs. Don't wanna end up using 950 NCU self.
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  16. #16
    this is quite sad that this still hasn't been implemented yet

    new launcher, new login screen

    anything that matters? No

  17. #17
    almost another year ;D

  18. #18
    Wonder how many is left of the team that made this

  19. #19
    The ´team´ being mostly Giseleh and she's still there :P

  20. #20
    Wow, so many necros o.o

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