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Thread: Partner for s10

  1. #1

    Partner for s10

    Was thinking about making a partner for my ma in s10, and wanted to optimize the trash farming.
    In other words, im not looking for a boss-farming duo, just a fast killing survivable duo.


    I've toyed with several ideas, but in the end I dont really have a clue.

    Crat - Superb dps. Brings aad/aao/crowd control.
    Trader - Looks like it would have the best synergy of all profs if running an umbral for +100ish ma. But can it do damage? Perhaps a martial arts trader for more synergy?
    Shade - Superb dps, but brings nothign to the ma.
    Engi - Brings blinds/reflects. Is a transference engi good, to benefit from martial arts buffage.
    Advy - Doggy evades/damage/runspeed, or cat damage/crit.
    Keeper - I keep hearing that these guys can do awesome dps, but can they really compare with the top dps? They have nice auras.
    Soldier - I havent been too impressed with soldier dps from what I've seen, but its always mentioned as one of the top s10 dps profs. Reflects/inits/+dam buffs.
    Agent - Gets crit procs, and crit buffage, possibly some false prof shenanigans, but I am kinda clueless about agent. Too bad umbral isnt usable

    Looked at and discarded :
    Enfo - ok dps, good survivability, poor buffs
    Docs - not good dps no matter what
    Fixer - same as doc
    MP - could maybe be good dps, but doesnt buff the ma
    NT - aoe farming only?


    Right now crat and trader are looking most interesting, with agent seemingly having potential. I'm hoping for some ideas, or someone to share their experience.
    Last edited by Nogatco; Apr 3rd, 2011 at 20:54:15.

  2. #2
    Trader can pull some interesting damage numbers if you go the Shotgun route (Martial Arts, not so much). QL300 Shattergun can do some awesome damage, and is one-handed, so it can be paired with anything that requires a reasonable amount of MR (say, QL200 Sleekblaster - C05). OFAB Shotgun Mk 5 is also quite good, as is a Mudurlugu with the Ranged Init pushed to the extreme.

    NT - aoe farming only?
    Oh Christ no. AOE Blinds are a godsend for you, as it's even more "evades" for you. Plus they can spam absorbs on you for even MORE damage mitigation, give you nanoheals to assauge any sort of detriment to your nanopool, and their damage is quite good with single nukes and just crazy with AOE nukes, if they're careful and wise with the radii of their AOE nukes.
    Fixer - same as doc
    Wrong. Fixer DPS can be quite good if you avoid the Syndicate Messenger Gun route (and even with, you do have Mark of Peril after all). Dual Blackbirds with cheap +radiation damage gear can really make a Fixer shine, with or without Mark of Peril. Throw some money at a Fixer and give them a good KMP5/HawkMk5, and let them go to town with damage rivaling a Soldier. Throw in speed boosts and strong HOTs, and they're great options too.
    Shade - Superb dps, but brings nothign to the ma.
    For some Shade setups, this statement is wrong. My Shade, when he was 150, went for a damage route and used the Spirit Phylactery perkline, which debuffs AAO/AAD and drains nanopool. This helps you in quite a few ways: damage against you is a bit less, chance to hit is a bit less, you have a bit more of a chance to hit (and crit) and if done correctly, nukers will have a hard time scrounging up the nanopool to hit you with nukes (as Shades currently have a quite strong nanopool drain proc that just eats up nanopool).
    Last edited by Saetos; Apr 3rd, 2011 at 23:57:57.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  3. #3
    If you're planning on multi-logging and distributing keypresses with something like keyclone[1], you'll probably want to use a character that provides good DD combined with some benefit to your MA while not being too involved to control. Lots of debuffs might be a bit complex to manage with such a setup, so I'd rather go for passive benefit combined with a quick-cycling attack like fast attack or fling to get auto-attack started (because cloning the keypress for fling shot or fast attack is much less sensitive to desynching than an on/off thing as Q).

    In general, pet classes are very nice for such a setup, since you can have a number key for doing "/assist mainchar \n /pet attack". Melee might be slightly annoying to tow around on /follow, as they might have issues with range. I don't really know how crats are played in S10, but juggling charms isn't something I'd attempt in a keyclone slave.

    Towing around a soldier or engineer for reflects (and blinds) seems one of the most obvious choices for some buffing benefit combined with easy DD.


    [1] Before someone deletes this post: my friend who used to multi-log 5 characters and play them with keyclone petitioned to ask a GM, and got confirmation that this setup was OK as long as he wasn't afk-scripting anything. The rule about automated tasks while you're not present does not apply, as it's not automated and you're present.
    Hlep gnak!

  4. #4
    @Saetos
    Thanks for the reply, that was exactly what I was looking for.

    You say martial arts traders not so much damage, ok. I coulda swore i read in the trader section about wicked martial arts damage. Does this apply to tl7, or not at all in your opinion?

    I'll take your word for it on the fixer and nt damage, but their buffs are mainly defensive, as such I still think they are poor candidates, even if they can do decent damage. I've tried healing an aoe-ing nt once, and it didnt go too well But, maybe with zazen... sometime this millennium.... hmm.

    Interesting point about the shades! I was completely blank on them, just looked at their list of nanos.


    @Redbar
    Thanks for the advice on dual boxing. I will run with 2 monitors, and have done some boxing before. I am open for an 'active' profession, as the martial artist is fairly low maintenance.
    Pet profs are certainly an option. Both an mbc crat and an mbc engi should be on par with the ma for dps (if not better).

  5. #5
    I would probably pick a Trader.

    A Traders normal DPS is quite good. The +100 MA is great for your MA. Sacrifice is insane for an MA. You've also got Drains when you need them to evade that last bit, and you've got a ranged toon for killing towers. You also get a bit of team healing better than LGE if you use Health Payments, and can increase the nanopool to keep healing on your MA.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  6. #6
    Keeper IMO. I have a keeper with AOR and heal aura in evades/Goddess armor. That setup allows me a combo of good damage, passive heals and evades on keeper and active ones on MA. Put keeper on auto attack so nukers get attacked by keeper without swapping too much. It's REALLY hard to die. I guess I like it, because it's a more passive approach to the question. Any other choice would require you to be alot more active on the second character, which means you can lose DPS if you can't continually swap between AO clients for maximum DPS (OK, call me lazy but you will get tired of swapping constanty). Keeper is the best passive PVM class there is and has excellent team support. If you are just farming bounties, I think it's the way to go. DPS don't mean anything if you can't play both characters at their maximum at the same time.

    The most annoying thing is having two melee characters dealing with tower snares.
    Last edited by Obtena; Apr 4th, 2011 at 21:36:11.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nogatco View Post
    @Saetos
    Thanks for the reply, that was exactly what I was looking for.

    You say martial arts traders not so much damage, ok. I coulda swore i read in the trader section about wicked martial arts damage. Does this apply to tl7, or not at all in your opinion?
    There's just not much to work with with MA Traders at that level. We can *get* a lot of MA, but it doesn't really translate to enough damage until TL7, when the numbers start ramping up.
    [[ RYUAHN | 220/21 Opifex Trader
    == Proud Member of Core ==
    [[ ALASTROPHE | 220/15 Solitus Martial-Artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    There is literally nothing wrong with {Shutdown Skills} in it's current incarnation. What should be being looked at is the reason why it's needed so much. E.g, the incredible amount of Alpha being thrown around and the fickleness of Evade profs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cratertina View Post
    I walk in to BS... could not perk people... with 3704 AR and 300 AAD drain... NT facerolled me, shade instagibbed me, after a few minutes I just decided not gonna bother.

  8. #8
    No doubt the trader brings alot of good support. I'm starting to doubt if the benefit the ma gets from umbral will offset the loss of damage from a trader vs one of the more dedicated damage dealers.

    I do see your point about a more slack prof obtena, but as i said, im not really looking for that.

    Ok, so martial arts trader is out

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nogatco View Post
    No doubt the trader brings alot of good support. I'm starting to doubt if the benefit the ma gets from umbral will offset the loss of damage from a trader vs one of the more dedicated damage dealers.

    I do see your point about a more slack prof obtena, but as i said, im not really looking for that.

    Ok, so martial arts trader is out
    You can't go wrong with a Crat or a Fixer. It's ranged, it can provide crowd control. That way, if you ever feel like doing bosses you have the option. With other profs, you don't.
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  10. #10
    I'd totally go with a Trader, umbral is a nice amount of added damage on your MA, almost like a constant Moonmist running (106 vs 150, meh, you get the point ^^).

    Personally when I dual log I prefer it if the second log can take care of itself more or less and still benefit the main character, so Keeper would also fit the role well.

    Doctors having bad damage is a myth. MBC, SoC+Gelid or 2x Gelid all do superb damage inside s10.
    General of Horizon. Member of Unity. Frequent visitor of Free Spirits and The Last Element.

    Nave [ 220 Solitus Fixer ] Qien [ 220 Solitus Engineer ] Navezero [ 200 Solitus Soldier ]
    Rafeg
    [ 150 Opifex Agent ] Midriff [ 60 Atrox Soldier ] Lowriff [ 30 Atrox Keeper ]

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Nogatco View Post
    No doubt the trader brings alot of good support. I'm starting to doubt if the benefit the ma gets from umbral will offset the loss of damage from a trader vs one of the more dedicated damage dealers.

    I do see your point about a more slack prof obtena, but as i said, im not really looking for that.

    Ok, so martial arts trader is out
    I think you will find that having a low maintenance prof as part of the duo is going to be necessary when you deal with the practicalities of S10 or just dual logging, in general.

    If you put that practicality aside, as you would like, then I would recommend MBC Crat. Big damage, AAD/AAO buff, AOE snares, Ranged for towers. Can be twinked for massive evades with no compromise to other aspects of their toolset. I choose it over traders because Snares > roots in S10 and crats have much more damage potential and evades. The trader umbral to me is not enough of a significant factor in this case. It may be one if they get more significant team crit buffs though, so it's worth keeping how rebalance will affect everyone.
    Last edited by Obtena; Apr 6th, 2011 at 18:47:37.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  12. #12
    I have a crat, Ma, soldier, and doctor.
    I have all played in various mixes of teams and MA/Crat was my favorite combo. With the add all defense aura of the crat and the calms neither the crat or the MA were ever in much danger of dying. I could slap the pets on one alien, the crat on another and the Ma on another and kill them all effectively while tabbing back and forth.
    I didn't use any special programs for control management, mostly just simple in-game macro's as my computer was fast enough I could tab between them instantaneously.

    A crat MA duo rules in s10, only thing I can think of better for all but the bosses would be NT+Doc with the NT trying to kill everything in the middle in one go lol. Trader might be nice with a MA but I still think crat is a better choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vhab View Post
    I once got petitioned for "impersonating FC personal" for claiming I ran helpbot.

  13. #13
    Crat does look tempting yeah, so many good sides. I'm fairly sure I could go for a way more offensive setup on the MA then, as the crat should easily grab aggro with snares and improved rule of one. With css/buffs/heals he should handle it just fine.

    15% crit scope on the ma... hmm.

  14. #14
    you say you want it duo, am i missing a point here, you want to duo them yourself or are you after some dd from a partner in crime?

    if so, hit me up on my soldier, great dmg there, great survivability, id rival your dmg/survivability there, i often do it with an advy friend of mine, take it in turns looting bountys, pretty fun, rapid kills, 114m in space of 1 hour 30 mins farming,

    thats also toying around with a 175 shark on for about 20 mins, then back to spb

    hit me up on Valour/Void/Burden if your interested =]
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  15. #15
    I am talking about playing both myself yes.

  16. #16
    I'd second the pet profession option. Set a pet /assist macro and and play your MA with effortless extra damage. I'd say engi to go with your MA. Automatic extra blinds will make adds super easy to deal with. Reflects too.

  17. #17
    MP is as a fun option, mez pet works and NSD+healpet is pretty useful.
    Dagger 220/30/70 Shade // Attempted 219/24/?? Enforcer // Canidae 180/0/0 Adventurer // World 185/26/32 Meta-Physicist// Cramp 150/20/35 Engineer
    Ya wanna fix something - give RK mobs better xp, make RK matter again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamman View Post
    Give shades love or we will stop buffing people!!

  18. #18
    got linked to this thread so, way late responce. but can't really see what could be better then a good engie one assist. AoE blinds, good pet damage, decent damage from engie itself too but you probably would want to focus on his survivability. Also, if you decide to go all out on it, engies are good boss farmers too

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Nogatco View Post
    Crat does look tempting yeah, so many good sides. I'm fairly sure I could go for a way more offensive setup on the MA then, as the crat should easily grab aggro with snares and improved rule of one. With css/buffs/heals he should handle it just fine.

    15% crit scope on the ma... hmm.
    Question is: do you play your MA full deff with a 15% scope on?

    At 50% agg on my MA, I find that I don't need much healing since mobs die much too quickly. And crats are an active profession and, if you plan on using them passively at 150, better go for an MP you can park at entrance and just put Belamorte on your MA.

    If you need more than 20s to kill a mob in s10 as an average (discounting orange/red mobs), you're doing something wrong.

    If you're thinking on setting up your crat via macros, you're better off with an engie since their pets do way much more dmg than crat ones, and blind aura is ten times better than crat's aad aura.

    Plus, you need to consider:
    - your crat will need healing from time to time in s10, especially if you have have agg from several other mobs
    - calms require alt-tabbing
    - sending pets require alt-tabbing (unless you macro)
    - iROO requires alt-tabing
    - crats really shine when played actively and with a rather expensive setup (of which you would not make use too much if you plan on putting crat on follow)
    - a mediocre setup crat will not help you that much since it means half your MA role will be to babysit the crat (heals, stime, trying to pull agg off crat etc)

    Basically, you may end up not using either toon at its full potential. In other words, if you're MA can kill mobs fast enough and can hold its own against 2-3 nukers and some other 3-4 trash mobs and kill those in a timely fashion, you're better off playing just your MA.
    ----------------------------
    Showing why AO forum is not to be trusted - on S10 inflation

    Quote Originally Posted by Raggy View Post
    Multiple players in my org can make 200-300m maybe even 400m depending on lucky drops in 2 hours of farming the place. If you cannot see this as being an issue, then I don't know how to help you.

  20. #20
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    If its for dual logging with MA then second MA or keeper are good DDs that dont require much attention. Pet profs have ability to OD them but require very active gameplay (maybe an engi with non-special based weapon with decent crit – revolving cold lasers, db pistol if you are hardcore, xnemth - could be decent) . For forming up to mid area MA (and most likely any other decent character) doesnt need any suport at all, no healing, nothing, so its all about bringing more dmg. Forget about trader, to squeeze out any dmg from it it requires clicking all the time, using hp drain as poor mans nuke etc. and even then results are disappointing. As for Santos statement that fixers can match solds dmg well, ive been to s10 since it was implemente and havent really seen a single fixer that could come even close but i could ve missed something.

    Id bet my money on Excalibur keeper – no specials, passive boosts, fairly cheap (no supple based armor, decent ofab parts and silken gloves) and really benefis a lot from more crit chance. Just equip alien scope and go full agg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khlin View Post
    Question is: do you play your MA full deff with a 15% scope on?
    Full agg ofc, at some point ive unperked acrobat for disharmony and still didnt die. Its easymode prof. anyway.
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