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Thread: Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #141
    GA nukes gone along with le nukes. Not sure how I feel about this - they were always way over the top, but GA is obnoxiously strong.

    Who will stop the fixer menace?

    No Atrox Allowed!
    Straes ::::::: 220/30 NT?! :::::::::::: saving the day 24/7. YOU'RE WELCOME!
    Slugjunkie :: 150/20 Ex-Pistol Solja :: gimpin' > pimpin'
    stray alts ::: eng, agt, cra, nt, doc
    <3 R.I.P. Omni Infantry <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkstaah
    Trader alpha: Landing any nano then taking as long as you possibly want and/or feel like to kill people with regulars.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavritanic View Post
    Thnx for good calculation, but in real game NT can't use all of this. This is "devils is in details".
    Same, if you attacked by any DD prof (solds, shades, engs) your nanopool gone very fast.
    Same, don't forget about nano drain items (-5k nanopool), perks, and specials. So, high nanocost will be very big problem
    Why couldn't you use all these different tools to regen your nano ? Gotta agree it's far from "1 click does it all" gameplay, but i don't see why you couldn't have it all - perk setup i used is credible (didn'tperk Channeling of Notum), and you can use most of these within 3 separate thread of action - clicky items, perk, and nano program.

    As i said i have a very vague idea of what kind of PvP DPS will be applied to us in a fight post-rebalance, but if you got a 30k alpha coming your way, you got NS1 that won't dent your nanopool. Nanodrain items / tool / perk / nano prog need to be listed as well, of course.

    Maybe we ll end up using a lower shelter all the time.

    Maybe we could use the ability to overwrite a bigger shelter with a lower shelter to adjust the damage done to pool on demand (didn't check stacking order in the doc, but that might be worthwhile to look at). If you got spare HP, go for a lower shelter.

    I m not saying we won't have issues with nanopool, we ll obviously have some, but that gonna be lot more funner to play with then the ol dumb Nanobot depletion from NBG where you d just sit in a corner waiting for it to end, or nuke yourself to hit deco room.

    It now need extended in game testing to learn if nanopool managment is over the top or not.
    Last edited by Djiax; Apr 3rd, 2011 at 08:41:29.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by DecemberSky View Post
    OK just so everyone knows... even though mastas avatar is in the pic... I spent about 8 hours writing up that summary!

    Im all about teamwork, but im getting no love! lol! This isn't about an ego boost, but I do want people to realize that I am actually doing a butt-load of work as well as Masta =)


    I will add that suggestion to the questions/comments/concerns part of the thread.

    Cheers =)
    I knew it was you because the post had smiley faces in it! Great work m8

  4. #144
    will the damage type / burst level have a visual effect on the nt so other players have an idea about whats incoming ?

    will changing damage types reset the burst level ?

  5. #145
    Hey Masta/December,

    I look into the document, I didnt find any Nanodelta buff line.

    May be it would be nice to have that line for NT who twinked for nanodelta, since everyone is saying the nanocost issue, NT who sacrifice other beneifit for nanodelta could enjoy this "near unlimited" nano?
    Agentkayy 215/21 Full Expansion Agent
    Agentkay 200/0 Froob Agent

  6. #146
    Since nano cost have skyrocketed will we be able to get the breed change that there's been talk about?
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
    --Albert Einstein

    Hmm... camping?!?

    Phikks - Fixer
    Grandalph - MP
    Qhite - MA

  7. #147
    Still not done with analyzing that nano doc, but :

    I protest of the name our best evade buff is getting. "Umbral flight" sounds so traderish.

    I propose that it should be renamed "Noim's flight", to celebrate the retard which, til recently (20 days ago!), was the only Opi NT 220/30 on all servers, and which intends to remain Opi whatever the duck.

    That's an official petition!
    Tribute to Aratink : Racatti and Artyomis will be pale shadows of you as long as they don't have the infamous Clanslator in their sig.
    Noim, Neutral TL7 NT
    Sethis, Neutral TL7 Keeper
    Anthraxal, Omni TL5 Enfotrox

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    No, this will not happen, as all this will be going on in recharge counters on the nano icons in hotbar/nanowindow. Like it is already.
    I'm sorry I do not understand. Currently if we have 'cooldowns' they only appear on the hotbar as the duration of the recharge (eg in the nano doc, most have a 1sec recharge). The cooldown is entirely seperate and only shows in the NCU window (eg on the new nukes, a ~4second cooldown).

    Comparing this to our shortest 'cooldown' nano (detonation matrix) this has an instant recharge and does not show up on the hotbar. The cooldown, however, is 10s long and shows up in the NCU window. The Icon for this cooldown is very general and not DM specific, so can easily be confused with other icons at a glance.

    I'm saying that the cooldowns in the NCU window need to be well defined, as the hotbar will not show at all which nano's we can and cannot currently cast, and would be extremely confusing if all the icon cooldowns shared similar graphics.
    Last edited by Whitey; Apr 3rd, 2011 at 14:51:12.
    'Fbwhitey' : 220/26 Nano NT [PvP]
    'Garnerana' : 220/22 Trox Keeper [PvM]
    'Zinc' : 220/30 Trox Doctor [PvP]
    'Whex' : 171/22 Trox Soldier

  9. #149
    New cooldowns are different from what we (NTs) have now. I guess they will work same way as trader GTH or doc ICH cooldowns: you cast GTH and if it lands 60s counter over GTH icon in nanobar/programs window will appear. No lockout nanos in NCU.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Straes View Post
    GA nukes gone along with le nukes. Not sure how I feel about this - they were always way over the top, but GA is obnoxiously strong.

    Who will stop the fixer menace?
    Anyone with nukes and NR checking perks, especially since AAD will stop working on NR based perks.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWatr View Post
    it's impossible to tell how long fights will last after rebal. but even now I can tell you that long fights are much more common than you think as an NT. endgame, they're probably faster, but I can have fights last 5, 10, even 30 minutes against certain profs. and you cannot predict how useful our regain tools will be either. all we have to work with atm are the proposed changes to cost. stop assuming that you know how our roll will be, you obviously dont see that we'll have taunts, as well as a potential for tanking.

    I usually like your posts, but I think you're out in left field on this one you're seriously trying to judge our need for nano on a 60 second encounter?

    gtfo, go experiment with something maybe NT. you're not the Nostradamus of pve, so stop trying to make an argument for us. maybe go tell solds we should base how much ammo they need on how log their AMS lasts.

    looovvee uuuu.
    I think you blew my post way out of context lol. My 60 second mark was just an example but not a serious prediction of NT capability. The main point is that every encounter will be different and just counting NPS regain loses out on a lot of what is involved in actual nano use. I have had several fights with my 90 NT that have lasted into 10 to 12 uses of NSII, but that is now and not post-balancing where I could actually run out of nano.

    Also, when I say NTs will rarely be tanking, I seriously hope you are not trying to argue the opposite, which is that NTs will frequently be tanking. Did I say NTs will be unable to tank? No, they certainly have a suicide taunt that will lead to the NT either losing 100% of its nano pool through a 100% DtN shield or they will simply die after the 15 seconds of 100% reflect shielding is up and they cannot lose the 60000 taunt to an actual tank profession such as enforcer or soldier. The best bet is that NT's use the 30000 taunt rather than 60000 in an emergency and hopefully can quickly lose the aggro from the boss they taunted. I think the detaunt will have far more use than a single super taunt.

    There is a reason why we rarely see doctors tank Beast or Pande raids.
    Last edited by Gatester; Apr 3rd, 2011 at 15:50:35.

  11. #151
    1) Does root cooldown trigger on root resist? With 10 sec duration on roots I hope free movements will remove stuns only, not roots.
    I would assume it does, just as there is a recharge now. Also free movements will most likely be changed in itemization and I -think- stuns are gone completely from the game. I hope I am giving you the right info! =D

    2) I am little bit disappointed about our MC buff. Since we want high TS to land our dots, getting CM is still going to be a preferred option. I believe we should be able to buff our most important nanoskills ourselves best (do shades have to ask other professions to get best piercing buff? or fixers to get smg? etc.). Quantum Thought should either buff MC *and* TS by 155 or MC only by a significantly higher amount. Or even better it should stack with mochams.
    Does that mean we should also ask for PM/SI to land blinds? =p The MC buff is a very welcome buff. It means we can buff our -MAIN- nanoskill without having to find an MP every single time.

    3) NS2 - I dont think it's going to work. With huge nanocost on everything and improved shelters we wont have enough nano to use it. Nanopool cannot serve as nanoprogram spam limiter and our defense at the same time. NS2 should be based on reflects just like NS1. Also why -5k MC on NS1? Why it's always us who get this sort of downsides? Make NS1 reflect 100 % of damage type selected by Change Element nanoline and less % of other damage types. I seriously dont think our offense is that good to deserve -5k MC on NS1 especially if you take nanocosts, nanoskill requirements and CB nerfed to oblivion into account.
    As a huge advocate of the Nullity Sphere line, I'll admit I've been less than thrilled about these changes. I WILL say: I think everyone is over estimating our nano heals and nano regen. I think we'll have plenty of nano for all things. I don't think we'll be able to spam nukes forever, but I don't think we'll be as bad off as some people think. Once this stuff gets to alpha and beta testing, this will be much easier to test and change. Numbers are numbers. We wont actually get a feel for it until we actually use it.

    5) Health Buff - isn't it enf's job to buff STR/STA? Personally I would prefer to have more INT for some trickle into nanoskills, I dont remember anyone asking for hp/str/sta. It does not fit into our toolset. Also 82 NCU? Seriously? And it does not stack with doc NR buff. Buffs more NR, nice.
    I honestly said the same thing. I don't think Str/Sta fits with our tool set either. The response I got was something along the lines of... They had to make the nano fit into an already exsistant line, so since Mockery is "health" line, they added str/stam buffs to it because str/stam buffs are already present in the "health" line of nanos. If that doesnt make sense, sorry =p

    7) Blinds - again insane nanocost (3,5k). They should better remove all those silly blind resist items, I cannot afford to spam this. Also blinds ... should blind! If they can give shades something as lame as "Force 6 sec nano recharge on target" black screen should not be a problem at all. I could live with blind gfx effect lasting less time than aao debuff, but it should blind.
    I am going to miss the visual impact of our blinds, but I don't think it should just be a -aao debuff. I will definitely try to push the idea of our blinds needing SOME kind of visual effect. I don't think the dev's disagree, I think its more of a coding issue. Ill bring it up again.

    9) Izgimmer's Wealth is our new main source of nano and is badly needed (166 nano/sec). Novictum Reaper is still too slow to make any difference (40 nano/sec), other profs will appreciate its 4h duration. I am pretty sure it's still not enough and we will have by far more problems keeping our nano compared to everyone else.
    so both together is 200ish nano a second.. nanomage nts get 55% cost reduction, we have perk nano heals, high 2sec tick nano delta. I really dont think nano costs will be as bad as they seem.

    11) LE dot should have MC/TS instead of MC/PM as an attack rating skills just like other dots.
    I told them this when the very first NT rebalance stuff came out. I assumed it got changed, Ill make a note of it now. Thanks.

    12) Cyberdeck - i doubt anyone will care about damage coming from regular attacks, our damage template is far too bad and there are no specials on it. Also ranged init is very expensive for us and dodge+aad check means we wont hit anything in pvp.
    I dont forsee us having to up ranged init. At 220 you should innately have enough to do 1/1 unless init debuffed.

    14) Nano bursts are cool idea and I wish there were more independent special actions like this because they are more reliable (always lands when we have high enough MC). Please, replace treat/first aid debuff with heal efficiency debuff.
    Unless AC's get an overhaul, I also think this debuff will never get used. I'll add that you suggested heal eff debuff.

    Sorry it took so long to get some questions answered...been a busy few days

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by DecemberSky View Post
    I dont forsee us having to up ranged init. At 220 you should innately have enough to do 1/1 unless init debuffed.
    You kinda need 1650 init for a 1,5/1,5 weapon to hit at full speed while aggbar is at full def, and about 1050 for a 1/1 weapon.
    If you have anywere close to that without ip in it, congratulations
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl

  13. #153
    I thought it was something like 400 ranged init for full def 1/1 with a 1/1 weapon?


    Also, with as much IP as NT's have at 220 anyway... I have no problem is maxing ranged init..and having plenty left over still.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by DecemberSky View Post
    I thought it was something like 400 ranged init for full def 1/1 with a 1/1 weapon?
    I'm afraid not, here is a working calculator,
    Bur yes, i don't see ip as an issue unless you want to put ip in other weapon skills and such.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by DecemberSky View Post
    I thought it was something like 400 ranged init for full def 1/1 with a 1/1 weapon?
    According to it is indeed 1050 init with 1/1 weapon

  16. #156
    fair enough, it was 400 nano init to insta cast a 1sec nuke. my baaaad =)

  17. #157
    According to helpbot its 1650 inits for 1,5 weapon (SL cyberdeck). Without IP in ranged init I have 548 ranged init (5 pieces of CS), maxxing ranged init brings me to 1323 and IP cost is 911400. Make it nano init based please

    Edit: thanks for answers Eridonis, I hope my list did not sound too whiny, don't get me wrong, I like most of the proposed changes.
    Last edited by ninst; Apr 3rd, 2011 at 17:33:33.

  18. #158
    Why do you need 1/1?
    Wouldn't it bee cool with some slow, hard hitting weapons (good against shields)
    and some fast doing less damage? (more consistent damage against evades)

    at least that is my point, not every weapon needs to be 1/1
    .. that is when the system is changed, so the specials do not so heavily rely on the attack times. Some weapons having 11 sec AS and others 1 minute is not balanced.

    But to the NT point: what do you want the cyberdeck to be?
    fast hitting, low damage or hard-hitting and slow?

    Kind Regards
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange

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    With the description / plate saying:
    When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
    This really isn't a corporate product belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

  19. #159
    I would prefer to have an option to use cyberdeck with 0 weapon damage and higher nanodamage % modifier. Regular hits are just going to break my roots. But maybe I am underestimating possible weapon damage from cyberdecks (for how much are we going to hit with CD? Is there going to be MBS on it?).

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Tracer effect. ;P But we will need a new animation for the attack.
    use the DM animation?

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