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Thread: Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavritanic View Post
    -50 attack range debuff sounds like still useless... many players and mobs have attack range much more then 40m.
    It's most like % based, and it's *only* debuffing nanorange!
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  2. #42
    i will try my best to make a pretty summing up of everything. Lots and lots of stuff =P Gonna take a bit!
    ....................................-Eridonis-
    ................-Sleighbells-................-Northpole-
    ....-Psyche-...............-Decembersky-...........-Karma-
    ...............-Winterbelle-.................-Snowing-
    .....................................-Graffiti-

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Mavritanic View Post
    -50 attack range debuff sounds like still useless... many players and mobs have attack range much more then 40m.
    debuff only affects nano range. Unless they have a nano range increaser in the -50% debuff should show fair results.
    keep smiling
    Najade s, Najengi s, Najngi s, Najmp s, Shadysannz, Toccata, Frobos, Chaodoc, Najcrat, Najtank
    sannz - ENL - NR01-GOLF-11
    a time of changing has begun; the leaves are fallen and undone; inside my spirit starts to run; and all my fears are overcome. - Chiasm, Rewind, 2005

  4. #44
    About ns1 & ns2, I don't quite get it, ns2 uses 1:1 damage nano ratio and uses 100% damage to nano while ns1 is just a straight 100% reflect buff? also ns1 kills your mc skill while ns2 does not, is this right?
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  5. #45
    Hmm... I can't even decide if this is awesome, OP, or what.

    Well, it's definitely some awesome changes, but I'm sure it makes other profs feel a bit unloved
    The Fine Arts:
    Mime | Surgery | Zen
    The Traitor


    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  6. #46
    Very nice document...after some of the cooldowns/durations/nanocosts in other docs I feared the worst (ok, more like abject terror and night sweats), but on the balance this looks like massive NT love

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    You can only utilize the Burst effect if you are wielding the Cyberdeck (either SL, AI, or LE [and take a look at the cyberdecks page in the nanodoc]).
    Slight shame for the froobies, since they are, in essence, losing such special effects from Grav. Anomaly, Elec. Containment, Crown of Frost, etc.

  7. #47
    Slight shame for the froobies, since they are, in essence, losing such special effects from Grav. Anomaly, Elec. Containment, Crown of Frost, etc.
    I don't think they are touching those rk nanos, so they should still be able to use them, afaik.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  8. #48

    Funcom employee

    No, those nukes got touched too (wasn't in the original plans but hey, things change) and are losing their additional effects. I'm... not going to say I'm a *huge* fan of that bit either, but at the same time the Burst system makes for a much more flexible method of allowing the NT to access those debuffs (and ensuring that they remain powerful through-out their levelling curve).

    So yes, those are gone and their effects moved into the Burst system. Sorry froobs.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  9. #49
    Thanks Kintaii for your fast reply I'm sure I speak for the whole NT community when I say we appreciate your dedication here.

    I do have one thing to point out, however;

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    #5: Like I said before, we want to make sure that we have a bit of wiggle room to play around with. In the document, with 2700 MC, your average DPS *from nukes alone* is close to -2000 damage; this isn't too far off from what NTs currently from their end-game nukes (IU/Double/DM rotation), and is *just* the nuking line - This doesn't include any AoEs, Burst effects, DoTs,
    Currently NT's like me (~2400 MC) can churn about ~250k DPM, which works out at ~4200 DPS, through IU/SI/DM in a fairly defensive setup. I'm sure it can reach reasonably close to 300k, with more nano-damage items in their setup. This seems to be much closer to the projected 'new' DPS, and of course, currently we have no real problems keeping our nano at full, wheras in the proposed changes I can forsee very real problems in continued nuking for anything over one or two minutes.

    Edit: sorry my brain is aching from reading the full document, I didn't consider nano damage multiplier when looking at the new numbers. Foot in mouth syndrome much?

    Still, the nano cost does concern me, I'm glad to know it will be looked at as time goes on.

    Edit 2: I think a 0 has been missed on the end of the nemesis nano's damage?

    Edit 3: I fear a mistake has been made in calculating DPS. Unless all nukes without a listed 'cap time' are able to be instant cast, then the DPS is off by a large margin, as it seems attack times have not been considered a factor in calculating DPS. Sorry if I am confused, but a blank 'cap time' on the document means to me that the attack time is the default capped cast time. Am I mistaken here?
    Last edited by Whitey; Apr 1st, 2011 at 20:44:26.
    'Fbwhitey' : 220/26 Nano NT [PvP]
    'Garnerana' : 220/22 Trox Keeper [PvM]
    'Zinc' : 220/30 Trox Doctor [PvP]
    'Whex' : 171/22 Trox Soldier

  10. #50
    Ok i've read the thing. And have similar comments to everyone else it seems:

    1. In general, loving it.

    2. Damn, now i have to press Q like the peasants. Seriously if you can make an UI option like casting a damage-nuke retargets your attack target to nano target automagically that'd be grand.

    3. "Into the Grid" nanos are far too mundane. Pretty much anywhere would be welcome over this.

    4. Thank you for killing Off/Def focus LE nukes and NBS.

    But; us being Scientists you well know us NTs won't be truly happy till we can experement Kintaii, so from me you recieve a tentative "good job"

  11. #51
    Couple questions pvp oriented :

    1 : Can we actually use both NS1 and NS2 within a single minute or do they share the same cooldown ?

    2 : CC & regular debuff : is the cooldown casted on the target or on ourselves ? If it's on ourselves, wouldn't it be better on the target so that we got some tools to help versus multiple opponents ? Gettin zerged is allrdy a big issue today in my opinion, tools to help when you are outnumbered should be encouraged.

    3 : Beetween the lowered nanopool (25k for a trox 30k for a NM), high nano cost of nuke(3x more expensive at least for the base nuke), and bigger DtN (45% @ 100% conversion rate if i understood correctly, so that's 20% more hitting the pool instead of our HP for a NM, it should hurt other breed less), won't we run in heavy nano pool issues ? Might be interesting as far as i am concerned, but that sounds like heavy change. Please includes a number heads up comparing our nano healing capabilities with nano program + perks versus our losses somewhere .

    4 : Looks like it is the end of the CB era, why not. Do you have a rough heads up about what kind of nano resist values we will be facing and which landrate you expecting us to play with ? Would that tool be effective to estimate that ? (i believe it is at the moment) http://pvp.aodb.us/ARDEF/nano_calc.html
    Any plans for the NR perkline ?

    PS : PvM DPS looks buffed to me, as a reference i consider today's DPS 2x the value of IU (so 4600ish + nanodmg), and as it s been said at the end of the doc DPS from nano prog only seems to be 4.8K, pre nanodamage mod. At which you add perks and these new regular hit. Why did Kintaii quoted 2K DPS when the doc sums up everything @ 4.8k ? (and that s what i calced too myself till i saw it was summed up in the doc).
    Last edited by Djiax; Apr 1st, 2011 at 21:06:48.

  12. #52

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey View Post
    Edit 2: I think a 0 has been missed on the end of the nemesis nano's damage?

    Edit 3: I fear a mistake has been made in calculating DPS. Unless all nukes without a listed 'cap time' are able to be instant cast, then the DPS is off by a large margin, as it seems attack times have not been considered a factor in calculating DPS. Sorry if I am confused, but a blank 'cap time' on the document means to me that the attack time is the default capped cast time. Am I mistaken here?
    Re: Nemesis Nano: It's a DoT, so no, it's right. Scroll a bit farther to the right in the nanodocument and you can see DPS and damage calculations (both for the nemesis nano and other nukes/nanos in the sheet).

    The nuke lines do not have a capped cast time, and each have a 1s *global* cooldown (meaning a 1s period where you cannot cast any other nanos). Each nuke has it's own *local* cooldown for the line, meaning that you will be able to cast other nanos (and nukes) while that individual line is in recharge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djiax View Post
    Couple questions pvp oriented :

    1 : Can we actually use both NS1 and NS2 within a single minute or do they share the same cooldown ?

    2 : CC & regular debuff : is the cooldown casted on the target or on ourselves ? If it's on ourselves, wouldn't it be better on the target so that we got some tools to help versus multiple opponents ? Gettin zerged is allrdy a big issue today in my opinion, tools to help when you are outnumbered should be encouraged.

    3 : Beetween the lowered nanopool (25k for a trox 30k for a NM), high nano cost of nuke(3x more expensive at least for the base nuke), and bigger DtN (45% @ 100% conversion rate if i understood correctly, so that's 20% more hitting the pool instead of our HP for a NM, it should hurt other breed less), won't we run in heavy nano pool issues ? Might be interesting as far as i am concerned, but that sounds like heavy change. Please includes a number heads up comparing our nano healing capabilities with nano program + perks versus our losses somewhere .

    PS : PvM DPS looks buffed to me, as a reference i consider today's DPS 2x the value of IU (so 4600ish + nanodmg), and as it s been said at the end of the doc DPS from nano prog only seems to be 4.8K, pre nanodamage mod. At which you add perks and these new regular hit. Why did Kintaii quoted 2K DPS when the doc sums up everything @ 4.8k ? (and that s what i calced too myself till i saw it was summed up in the doc).
    #1: They do share the same cooldown, so no using one right after the other.

    #2: The cooldowns are on self - 1s global cooldown, 10s local cooldown. NTs aren't supposed to be masters of group debuffing, so... sorry to say this is probably going to stay like it is.

    #3: Wait for more information on Perks and Itemization before you start getting too worried there. Also, as I've said before, the numbers are easily malleable, and will definitely be changed from this document to what you see on live - The design direction is the important thing to focus on. =)

    #PS: Sorry, that was my own mistake. The 2k DPS I was thinking about was just coming from the base nuke line, not including the other nukes (and i was purposely not including Bursts/DoTs/etc. etc.).
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by sannz View Post
    debuff only affects nano range. Unless they have a nano range increaser in the -50% debuff should show fair results.
    well, nano range buff now only self... but +110 (percents?). So against NT this debuff not effective.

    btw, all nukes and buffs/debuffs now have 30m range - so, with last range buff you can forgot about Deck Nano range increaser. Except Nemezis (24m range)
    Last edited by Mavritanic; Apr 1st, 2011 at 21:10:54.
    The Clan Messiah statement
    You hit Nirvelle with nanobots for 7110365 points of radiation damage.
    Alternity: I never initiated a serious dialog

    "... who are you, then?"
    "I am part of that power which eternally wills evil and eternally works good" (c) Goethe

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  14. #54
    NS2 is so pwned ;( WTB ns3 & 4
    Last edited by Drakeep; Apr 1st, 2011 at 21:03:17.

  15. #55
    Btw Kintaii, is there any fix incoming for +nanodamage% not affecting dots? that's still an issue :\
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  16. #56
    Total DPS
    -4826,85 possibly too high
    i suppose thats too high for NTs.. engis are currently at 8300 solo dps :/
    You hit Tarasque with nanobots for 18280 points of melee damage.
    First shade with Blades of Boltar
    ---
    How much is enough?
    Member of Halinallet!

  17. #57
    Nooooooooooo . I want some special effect from nukes as a froob (the nano burst thingy)! I'm sort of sad now, because I really like special effect nukes and froobs actually have all of them (except nr-debuffing ones) right now. The worst of all is that I don't have any other arguments then "I really really like them " and "we have them now". Sorry, but I just have to whine on that for a sec.

    Apart from that, it actually looks pretty good. To be honest, I was afraid you'd screw up some things and I'd need to try to convince you of doing it different. But it seems pretty decent; the nanoheals even restore some of the worrying parts of other nano-docs. I do fear however, NT is getting a bit too much love here, compared to how others got nerfed, but I guess that can be fixed with testing and altering some numbers.

    What I like:
    -Calms didn't get as big of a nerf as I feared. They are short, but should do.
    - Chosing damage type (even though it's mostly useless for me: RK content or players don't have any AC holes that I know about and I don't get nano burst)
    - AoE detaunt
    - nano burst
    - nano heals!
    - how NS1 is really an emergency thingy now. I guess the quote "NS1 saves your ass, NS2 kicks their ass"(or something along those lines) becomes even more valid .
    - No more +nanocost on nanorange buffs.
    - MC and nano-init/ +nano-dmg buffs.
    - working dots

    What's pretty funny, April joke?:
    - behe for NT's (Mockery giving sta/str, lots of hp and castable on target??? :O)
    - special taunts

    What I don't like:
    - nothing from nano burst for froobs
    - layers become self only (I hope this is a typo?)
    - No blind effect on AAO debuffs (can't see it mentioned at least)
    - Warps to grid instead of to cities: I like to be unique in warping to somewhere else. + If I warp to grid instead of to Borealis I need to zone an extra time (not to mention the long walk from Omni trade grid exit to borealis exit, or is this changing?)
    - No more WTF-PWNING of GA fixers. Though it was OP, so guess that's fair.
    - NS2 damage to nano aspect, I don't think this is necessary, I still want to be able to do something when under NS2 and I'm afraid I'll run dry waaay to fast like this. (I'll probably run dry anyway fast actually :P). I think 100% reflects or a much lower conversion ratio should work.

    Questions:
    - What's the difference between the different calms? I can see none, except the requirements; so you could just keep using the lowest one.
    - Can you cancel the damage type buff?
    - What about the new roots? E.g. I do have Burden of Atlas, which I won't be able to use as a froob. Will my Burden of Atlas change into "Velocity Cessation" or will I be stuck with a useless nuke and need to get a new one? I wouldn't mind rolling a new one, but that doesn't seem how you guys are usually doing it .

    Typo's?
    - layers self only, Mockery-line on target. If intended: I like it the other way around so I can use layers to keep somebody alive (due to lack of heals :P)
    - AC debuff line from nano burst is in nano skill debuff school...


    Note: been typing on this a bit, so some topics like us poor froobs and the warps have been touched by now...

    EDIT: Found out what the stuff under NS2 means, so moved it from questions to "not like".
    Last edited by Edta; Apr 1st, 2011 at 21:42:46.
    Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
    Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
    Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!

  18. #58

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by nanoforcer View Post
    Btw Kintaii, is there any fix incoming for +nanodamage% not affecting dots? that's still an issue :\
    Unfortunately no, as much as I wish there was. It has to do with the way that H/DoTs are handled by the system (basically when they're cast the first tick comes from you - after that the nano is actually being recast on themselves by the target, meaning that *their* +nanodamage would effect the DoT if anything) and isn't something we can easily change if at all - Trust me, I've poked Macrosun about this one more than once. XD

    Edit: EDTA, I'll get to your post when I get home - About to split outta the office now, so I'll reply later this evening. =)
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Unfortunately no, as much as I wish there was. It has to do with the way that H/DoTs are handled by the system (basically when they're cast the first tick comes from you - after that the nano is actually being recast on themselves by the target, meaning that *their* +nanodamage would effect the DoT if anything) and isn't something we can easily change if at all - Trust me, I've poked Macrosun about this one more than once. XD

    Edit: EDTA, I'll get to your post when I get home - About to split outta the office now, so I'll reply later this evening. =)
    Well a real ugly fix would be to give the mob/player as much +nanodamage mof as WE have for the duration of the dot, but that could open up a whole other can of ugly worms

    And i'de like to thank you for answering our question like you do on a friday evening, much apreciated
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  20. #60
    Guys, Nano Range Modifier Debuff so fits MP toolset.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

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