Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

[Pyroatheist]

Honestly, to me it doesn't feel like it's coming to the end of the line. Means explicatively said to not expect it "Soon". Also there is 2 things that look as much work to me as what has happened by now:
- Item rebalance
- Testing (there should be quite a long time between it being on testlive and it being live
And then there also is (also before test-phase):
- Reworking of perks (big changes)
- Reworking current nano-docs (not so much changes anymore I guess, if all goes good)
- Reworking pvm (i.e. remove ubt/nsd resists on bosses, make raids highly dependent on nsd, less dependent on it)
- ...?

I don't want to sound pessimistic, but you shouldn't have false hope either.

I do understand it could be a very long time before it gets onto live, but my original question was regarding testlive actually. I'm rather anxious to get my hands onto some of this and start mucking around with it, so anything on testlive would be wonderful.

[Kintaii]

I will say that you'll probably see stuff being sent out to Test piecemeal - Probably nano/perk changes out first, followed by the first runs of research and itemization. We want to ship it all out to *Live* in one chunk, but for Testlive we can push things out bit-by-bit and still get the important 'functionality' testing done before we go in and start cleaning up the numbers. =)

[Gridpain]

Yeah, keep tellin' yourself that one.

Yes, we know that the current Nano/Heal Delta designs effect different level ranges differently. We're quite well aware of that implementation and design. =)

Aware of the implementation and design, I m sure...

But, dont take it personnaly, but most rebalance docs FC has published showed the core reflection was about TL7 raid and TL7 PvP (with few well appreciated exceptions)

So.. just keeping a small voice for "those other guys"...

[Riawn]

(just for fun)

well, let's see..

my 170 NT has about 10k nano

I bet you have more bullets

1 of my nano does, well, 0 dmg.

1 of your bullets can take away 30% hp.

yet, I run out of nano, you probably have a spare 50k box of bullets.

so, let's just give us a chance to carry a spare 50k box nano and call it even

OR

let's make it where every shot you take costs you 1500 bullets, and make boxes unique

Just give me a DtA (Damage to Ammo) nuke.
Call it "Keldros' cook-off"

[Riawn]

I can't agree with blinds and calms being more offensive then defensive. They are an offensive sort of defense yeah, which is the sort NT's rely on. Just like roots they reduce the hits you take, I can't see the difference here. Actually calms are much more of a defensive tool in pvm then roots are; especially against ranged NPC's.

If calms are an offensive tool, then they're the only offensive tool any class has that is utterly useless in PVP and actually heals opponents in PVM.

[Pyroatheist]

If calms are an offensive tool, then they're the only offensive tool any class has that is utterly useless in PVP and actually heals opponents in PVM.

This

[Riawn]

Unfortunately no, as much as I wish there was. It has to do with the way that H/DoTs are handled by the system (basically when they're cast the first tick comes from you - after that the nano is actually being recast on themselves by the target, meaning that *their* +nanodamage would effect the DoT if anything) and isn't something we can easily change if at all - Trust me, I've poked Macrosun about this one more than once. XD

On a related note--will SL environmental damage be fixed? I used to wonder how people could get low-level character into inferno/pande--then one day I ended up in inferno without my boots equipped, right next to an enforcer who had made the same mistake. And yet, somehow he was taking about 1/4 the damage I was.

[Pyroatheist]

On a related note--will SL environmental damage be fixed? I used to wonder how people could get low-level character into inferno/pande--then one day I ended up in inferno without my boots equipped, right next to an enforcer who had made the same mistake. And yet, somehow he was taking about 1/4 the damage I was.

Environmental dots are pvp-capped, so getting low level toons through pen, inf, and pande is really just a simple process of keeping them at very low hp, tossing a doc hot or fixer short hot on them, and not worrying about the damage anymore.

[-Mastablasta-]

Environment damage is also increased by your +%nanodmg. That's not a topic for this discussion.

[borriss]

Wonder why Kintaii is about 300-400% more active on NT changes than anyone was on MA changes. No one answered our questions, must say I'm envious.... WTB a thread like this for MA doc too, got loads of questions that no one answers:S


Edit: The only post (yes POST singular) that anyone from FC did on the nano docs of MA was Kintaii personally apologizing for thread having been started late:P

[Causticsoda]

Funny thing i saw, someone was saying nano>bullets.. erm i suppose he/she hasn't ever stan in middle of multiple weapon specs and those specs charge fast. Also weapon using professions can use all the nano for defence purpose and nt got to choose if casting layer/nuke forexample. If you run out nano as NT, you die. If you run out bullets as sold, you die but still can cast tms/ams etc.. Cant compare professions like that.

NS mk II. NT who need that DtN-nano will be most of cases MC setup = no nr and will be standing 2-4 second in root watching pool going down b4 claim. Should also give somthing vs roots coz it not going to save any1. If you go def/nr-setup, well 21 seconds to debuff nr before can thinkabout 1st nuke and i think NT will take some beating when they see 1st nrdebuff in NCU.

These are not facts, need to see all this in action. Just worried about some things.

[DecemberSky]

Pretty sure the MA profession didnt undergo the insanely radical changes that the NT profession has.

I think people get bored and find the most arbitrary reasons to whine.

How many nanos does the MA profession have? like 80? compared to the NTs 400+?
On top of the massive changes the profession is getting as a whole?

I definitely don't speak for Kintaii, but I can assume the reason he is "more" involved with this is

1.) Mastas account was down for a bit, and there is no way I was going to handle everything alone.

2.) The sheer amount of new data. Hell, I don't even understand 100% of it. Posters in this thread are helping me (and eachother) understand what all is changing. I see Kintaii as someone who is kind of watching over this thread to make sure we , the professionals, don't spew too much wrong data. LOL.

The other documents were small enough for the respective professionals to handle on their own, mostly. This is a different beast. I think you'll agree.

[borriss]

Pretty sure the MA profession didnt undergo the insanely radical changes that the NT profession has.

I think people get bored and find the most arbitrary reasons to whine.

How many nanos does the MA profession have? like 80? compared to the NTs 400+?
On top of the massive changes the profession is getting as a whole?

I definitely don't speak for Kintaii, but I can assume the reason he is "more" involved with this is

1.) Mastas account was down for a bit, and there is no way I was going to handle everything alone.

2.) The sheer amount of new data. Hell, I don't even understand 100% of it. Posters in this thread are helping me (and eachother) understand what all is changing. I see Kintaii as someone who is kind of watching over this thread to make sure we , the professionals, don't spew too much wrong data. LOL.

The other documents were small enough for the respective professionals to handle on their own, mostly. This is a different beast. I think you'll agree.

Ofcourse it was a "different beast" as you say. But regardless, the kind of feedback and dedication that has been showed here would have been really appreciated at least from my PoV when MA doc's came out... Just because you had more nano's it's nothing special, it was all just random nukes etc... Say for example the trader, and doctor.. There are actually more special nanos and effects than NT has... Only special stuff NT got was the Nano burst, which can be used as debuffs or burst damage, aswell as the DtN nano's / NS.. The nukes are nothing apart from what we've seen MP's and Crats get.. Quite the same...

In it's own sense MA docs were much more elusive to what the MA prof will be like after rebalance than NT doc.
Infact, there are way more questions to be asked and answered about the MA doc. I don't belive you are familliar with the situation, judging by your statement.


You say insanely radical changes, I have to disagree with you... There's not alot of changes to how you play your NT now and how you'll play it in the future... Nano bursts/NBG(S) and NS is changed to an extent that matters. At least, for my own part... There's just the simple fact of re-arranging your shortcut bars with a few nano's here and there. For example as NT I now have to press Q, (which I always do already) and use DoT line B in addition to 2 more nano's when I deal regular damage...
There's not a major gameplay change at all, except for Nano but every other profession get's that aswell....
And I didn't whine, I actually gave FC a compliment at the same time as I gave them some critique. You seem to busy and engulfed in your own professions changes that you can't see past it. Why is that?

The MA profession is beeing reworked to a greater extent as our whole system gets changed up, among others as every single MA who ever thought seriously about PvP we have to now choose either AS OR sneak, As they will be locked. Also AS which is the more profession aligned special will get reworked aswell... We will be in trouble, because a big portion of our non evadeable offense get's taken away.

Nano is also a HUGE factor in the MA docs, and our nano costs are just insane as it stands today.. Not complaining about that, but it means we'll have to change it up alot...

Zazen our promised new stance, we actually know nothing about.. And we don't even know basic plans regarding this..

Parry/riposte is to be re-implemented, and MA's definitly the or one of the first professions which will get this...

Our perks get's reworked big time, MA's are incredibly dependant on perks over-all as we have alot of utility, control and damage in perks... Ofcourse NT's will get perk changes aswell, but it doesn't matter as much for NT's.. Primary offense, utility and defense are all from nano programs.


I really dislike tunnel vision and snappy comments like the one you just managed to reply me with, and imo you should really keep yourself too good for that.

As for nano docs, NT's nano doc wasn't anything special... Look at traders or adventurers nano docs... THAT is major changes, not like NT's docs... NT docs were quite understandable if you ask me. Just because NT has 400+ nano programs, doesn't mean it's very special... The end outcome of it was actually quite manageable and plain... At least after looking through it 2-3 times... At least for myself I think more than 2-3 others were, as you put it.. A different beast=)

[Edta]

If calms are an offensive tool, then they're the only offensive tool any class has that is utterly useless in PVP and actually heals opponents in PVM.

Well, that sort of was my point as well. Did I really fail so hard in making it that you had to counter argument it ?

Wonder why Kintaii is about 300-400% more active on NT changes than anyone was on MA changes. No one answered our questions, must say I'm envious.... WTB a thread like this for MA doc too, got loads of questions that no one answers:S


Edit: The only post (yes POST singular) that anyone from FC did on the nano docs of MA was Kintaii personally apologizing for thread having been started late:P

Kintaii being more active here is because he was more involved in making the NT nano-doc. That means he knows it well and can answer questions about it, without needing to ask everything to Genele. Kintaii is the guy posting a lot on the forums, Genele doesn't; maybe simply because Kintaii is more into forum-posting, but probably also because it was decided internally that Genele should focus on working out rebalance while Kintaii got some hours for forum browsing, modding and 'player<->FC communication'... (just guessing here ).

[borriss]

Well, that sort of was my point as well. Did I really fail so hard in making it that you had to counter argument it ?




Kintaii being more active here is because he was more involved in making the NT nano-doc. That means he knows it well and can answer questions about it, without needing to ask everything to Genele. Kintaii is the guy posting a lot on the forums, Genele doesn't; maybe simply because Kintaii is more into forum-posting, but probably also because it was decided internally that Genele should focus on working out rebalance while Kintaii got some hours for forum browsing, modding and 'player<->FC communication'... (just guessing here ).

Yeah, was kind of thinking the same Must say it's admirable that he's this involved, props to Kintaii

[-Mastablasta-]

There will be a second round of more intense feedback gathering at a later time, and it's still not too late to discuss the MA document as changes are still undergoing in all of them... so let's keep that kind of talk out of this thread as it has no place here.

[Riawn]

Environment damage is also increased by your +%nanodmg. That's not a topic for this discussion.

It's not a topic for this discussion in that it's not a nano we cast--but it's also a complication in casting nanos, because currently the amount +%nanodmg we need to deal comparable damage to other professions means we literally die in seconds in some playfields where other professions can simply run right through them if they stop to heal once in a while.

[borriss]

There will be a second round of more intense feedback gathering at a later time, and it's still not too late to discuss the MA document as changes are still undergoing in all of them... so let's keep that kind of talk out of this thread as it has no place here.

Ofcourse, I was just stating that I think the feedback was admirable untill December actually offended me. She/he obviously didn't know very well what the post was about so I explained it. Don't blame me for other's ignorance or lack of knowledge.

Which again, I was done with untill you tried to lecture me with your post. Lecture which wouldn't have been necessary if you actually understood where I was coming from.


On topic:
I think the nanocosts will be changed to alittle less than they currently are, however not by that much. And I do think that I would enjoy my NT more if I didn't completely disregard nano regenerating at the current state. I kind of miss back in the days when in fights you would always use recharge times to sit down and use nano recharger in a fight, obviously not possible when soloing, but enjoyed it on all my characters... Made me feel like I had to work for what I was achieving.

I also really like the new local cooldowns, and the Nano burst idea is very cool... I'm surely already playing around with cool ways to mix it up on my NT, and I'm looking forward for balancing hitting test servers... Will be exciting!

One thing I really miss though is the ability to time something... What I mean is, lets say today... We do have some exciting timing with Supernova perks.. It's cool to time these with DM/casted nuke... And it's really beautiful when you can make things like that hit the exact same time...
What I miss would then be something with cast time, that you could cast besides the main nukes... As now it will just be instant instant instant, then perk + instant instant again... all the waiting will be for recharge, and not cast times...
I don't know what other people think, but I was sort of picturing something like 2 lines of nukes... With different cast times, and capped attack let's say for instance one was capped at 2 seconds, another at 4 seconds...
These nukes would be cast line A and cast line B, you know sort of like NT's beeing able to have a second cast line and able to cast 2 different nano programs at a time... Much like MA having 3 attack bars if they dual wield...
The challenging aspect of it would then be to time those 2 long casts with a perk and top them off with an instant cast or two at the end... Maybe do something like this with the Finishing nukes ? Put them on a second cast / recharge timer, that makes it possible to channel those besides the usual? ^^

My statements are strictly PvP, now and always unless I spesificly say otherwise:P

[-Mastablasta-]

My comment was directed at everyone talking off topic.

Regarding the +% nanodamage, then it is on our buglist and I have adressed the manner often, so it's not like it's an unknown. Also there's some talk about changing the way +nanodamage addition works, meaning we might be rid of this problem through different means.

[staron]

So if I read this correct, it is the end of VE spam, when there is a 7s, recharge on AOE's, or am I missing something here?