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Thread: Nano-Technician Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcradle View Post
    Are you serious? You're comparing what enfos can do right NOW, with what's planned for NTs in the FUTURE. Grasping for straws... Clearly FC doesn't like the state things are in now with everyone being able to 1-2 man almost anything worth doing in this game. They've explicitly said this.
    Enfos will be able to tank solo content in the future too. Again, I'm not talking about things that FC doesn't like to be done 1-2 man because that is TEAM CONTENT. And I'm talking about SOLO CONTENT for enfos and NTs, as I said. NTs won't be able to tank SOLO CONTENT with the proposed changes.

    Considering you seem to be responding to me with only terrible points and arguments, you must just be a troll.

    http://paradoxdgn.com/junk/viewing/a...trollface.jpg/

  2. #222
    Holy **** I have some posts to go through.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shrubberyman View Post
    Don't be thick, we shouldn't ever run out of nano from standard nuking and rooting and debuffing activities, short of some added exterior actions like nano drains, high dd dumped into our DtN, etc... No one is asking for everlasting nanos whatever the duck.
    In that case, can everyone but NTs get a nano that shortens the cooldown on perks and special actions ? Not unlike our nano heal nano at all in that respect. Just because the NT toolset revolves solely around nanopool and nano regen/regain and all added effects does not mean we shouldn't run out.



    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Not an appropriate comparison at all, especially for PvM. If a melee or ranged prof has all perks in recharge, that's fine, the vast majority of their DD comes from their weapon and specials. If an NT runs out of nano, we have almost NO DAMAGE WHATSOEVER. We'd have perks. That's it. Also, saying that perks and specials in recharge is like us being out of nano is also ridiculous. They'll much sooner come out of recharge than an NT will have nano back to cast.
    For all I can see, our cyberdecks do not drain nanopool.

    Yes, most damage comes from regulars and specials (look at the crit mod on the cyberdeck btw), all's well but they still have a recharge do they not? If an NT runs out of nano, and you can't continually cast in PVM, that to me seems like a limiting on potential DD - something I probably should have stated. And for being intended to be some of the highest DD available, yes, I do see it as an artificial limit. I'm not crying about it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    Yeah, this is a ridiculous comparison. Nano is the NT's ability to do everything that they can do, that means attack, defense, buffing, support, etc, everything. NT's have perks like everyone else, and they have perk recharges like everyone else...the only viable comparison to nanopool is weapon ammo, and we all know where that comparison leads us...
    I see nobody else claiming that NTs should be completely out of nano all the time. I'm saying that NTs shouldn't have infinite "ammo." Just like melee can be kited out of range and ranged can be out of ammo. It's a drawback to the toolset now, how are you going to deal with it? I'm excited about the prospect.

    Why should we be immune to burning up our defenses and offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    So now you think NTs should always be in a team with a trader to actually achieve goals they were meant to do, such as tank and do damage? Your powers of reasoning are astounding.
    PVP isn't going to be solo affair, at least not intentionally. PVM shouldn't be the lolfest it is now either. I think you're just going to have to cope with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Are you serious? In many situations enfos CAN tank solo right now except for endgame content in encounters that were MEANT to be for teams where yes, they need a team. For solo content they can tank solo. With the current nano doc, NTs would run out of nano and fail tanking solo in solo content.
    Yep, you've got it - PVM is easy mode. Welcome to rebalance (IE, you's gonna be teaming more for things). Enfos will run out of nano much faster due to their nanocosts - which if you haven't noticed, went up almost across the board on all powerful abilities.

    Yes, I'm an NT as well.
    Last edited by Waahash; Apr 6th, 2011 at 01:53:28. Reason: clarity

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by ArienSky View Post
    AO is a skill based system, so nanopool is a weighted choice against weapon skill, evades and nanoskill.

    "Unlimited nano" is the same as "remove the nano-pool bar, nanopool skill and nano-delta mechanic".
    If you are unhappy about costs, then suggest other costs rather than "NTs should have unlimited nano".

    Then I want unlimited nano for Agents, Doctors, Traders, Keepers.. etc.
    See where it leads to
    Oh god, this is so terribly wrong.

    First of all, I did suggest other costs, I didn't just say Unlimited Nano. I said, lower DtN ratio and nano costs across the board.

    Second, NTs not having nano problems does not imply AT ALL that other profs shouldn't have nano problems. NTs rely on nano far more than other profs. NTs devote many perks to get extra nano gain. Do other profs? No. Do other profs have any nano regain nanos like PNH? No. NTs also have the most powerful nano cost reduction nano. All of this points to the fact that NTs are designed to have MUCH LESS difficulty with nano than other profs, but based on the current nano doc before me, they would have as big problems if not bigger than other profs.
    Last edited by LyrLazarus; Apr 6th, 2011 at 01:42:31.

  4. #224

    Funcom employee

    Y'all need to get on to the "agreeing to disagree" stage of debate here pretty soon. :P
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Second, NTs not having nano problems does not imply AT ALL that other profs shouldn't have nano problems. NTs rely on nano far more than other profs. NTs devote many perks to get extra nano gain. Do other profs? No. Do other profs have any nano regain nanos like PNH? No. NTs also have the most powerful nano cost reduction nano. All of this points to the fact that NTs are designed to have MUCH LESS difficulty with nano than other profs, but based on the current nano doc before me, they would have as big problems if not bigger than other profs.
    And other professions have to perk for defenses while NTs have NS1/2 or DtN, absorbs, blinds, blah blah blah that they can spam (save for their defensive nanos) due to their nano regain perks they perked.
    Last edited by Waahash; Apr 6th, 2011 at 01:49:50. Reason: clarity

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    In that case, can everyone but NTs get a nano that shortens the cooldown on perks and special actions ? Not unlike our nano heal nano at all in that respect. Just because the NT toolset revolves solely around nanopool and nano regen/regain and all added effects does not mean we shouldn't run out.
    What it means is if we maximize nano gain at our level it should be extremely difficult for us to run out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    Yes, most damage comes from regulars and specials (look at the crit mod on the cyberdeck btw), all's well but they still have a recharge do they not? If an NT runs out of nano, and you can't continually cast in PVM, that to me seems like a limiting on potential DD - something I probably should have stated. And for being intended to be some of the highest DD available, yes, I do see it as an artificial limit. I'm not crying about it either.
    If you've played an NT, you'd know that running out of nano would lower the DD of an NT to a very very tiny fraction of the DD any other prof could get. That is stupid.



    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    I see nobody else claiming that NTs should be completely out of nano all the time. I'm saying that NTs shouldn't have infinite "ammo." Just like melee can be kited out of range and RANGED CAN BE OUT OF AMMO. It's a drawback to the toolset now, how are you going to deal with it? I'm excited about the prospect.

    Why should we be immune to burning up our defenses and offense?
    Melee can't be kited out of range in PvM and ranged really can't be out of ammo. Using your comparison, NTs really should have "infinite ammo" since ranged weapons users do. Because it really really is an appropriate comparison, I agree with you 100% that nano is ammo for NTs and very very rarely should someone run out of ammo in AO.



    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    PVP isn't going to be solo affair, at least not intentionally. PVM shouldn't be the lolfest it is now either. I think you're just going to have to cope with it.
    I refuse to accept that all solo content will become team content. That is the opposite direction of the way AO wants to go with the low and dwindling playerbase.


    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    Yep, you've got it - PVM is easy mode.. Enfos will run out of nano much faster due to their nanocosts - which if you haven't noticed, went up almost across the board on all powerful abilities.
    They'll run out of nano faster. And they'll still be able to tank solo content.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Y'all need to get on to the "agreeing to disagree" stage of debate here pretty soon. :P
    I'm thinking you're right, I think you get my point at this point, hehe.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    NTs rely on nano far more than other profs.
    I will join up on the Kintaii initiative and say:
    I disagree on Traders and Doctors relying less on nano than NTs.
    I disagree that any profession should have unlimited nano. Especially that just a single one should, while others struggle.

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky

    PS. LyrLazarus I did not mention your name. So I in no way, shape or form accused you of not suggesting other costs..
    What I did put was: unlimited nano = silly in a skill-based system (and argument why)
    also I would prefer if you kept God out of your argumentation.
    Humankind can not gain anything, without first giving something in return.
    To obtain; something of equal value must be lost.
    That is the 1st law of equivalent exchange


    Rubi-Ka needs: a nickel statue of an astronaut pointing at the sky
    With the description / plate saying:
    When the stars burn out and I find I lack the strength to continue...one of YOU wil pick up the flag and carry it forward.
    This really isn't a corporate product anymore...it belongs to all of us. Where it goes it up to us.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    What it means is if we maximize nano gain at our level it should be extremely difficult for us to run out.
    Then suffer in DD? Fair trade off.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    If you've played an NT, you'd know that running out of nano would lower the DD of an NT to a very very tiny fraction of the DD any other prof could get. That is stupid.
    And what is stopping you from making a choice to have lower DD but more stable nanopool? What is stopping you from going full on DD and casting your nanoheal more often? What is stupid to you was done for a reason.

    (I also hate to spoil this, but this doc is a statement of intent, not the final thing. As Kintaii put it, numbers can be changed ZOMG).


    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Melee can't be kited out of range in PvM and ranged really can't be out of ammo. Using your comparison, NTs really should have "infinite ammo" since ranged weapons users do. Because it really really is an appropriate comparison, I agree with you 100% that nano is ammo for NTs and very very rarely should someone run out of ammo in AO.
    Oh in PvM you say. Well then - by all means you should be with some other people if this rebalance is sticking to what it was supposed to do - in which case....


    ask for a stim. Ask to be in a team with a trader. Barring that, put yourself in a team with a trader. Or an MP that has those nano heal perks. Or if the crats are keeping their nanodelta buff, grab one of them too. How can this be hard?

    Ranged can't be out of ammo? Sure they can, ask a soldier how much spare ammo they carry (or if they have perks that reload their weapons or a nano that spawns a full box of appropriate ammo). Melee can be kited in PvP (breaking all their offense and in a few instances, some of their defense). Who in the dicks is asking for pvm to be easier?



    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    I refuse to accept that all solo content will become team content. That is the opposite direction of the way AO wants to go with the low and dwindling playerbase.
    Talk to the boss about that one.


    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    They'll run out of nano faster. And they'll still be able to tank solo content.
    Solo content is soloable by an enfo? Whodathunkit. Your massive taunt requiring NS2 to run isn't making you a tank profession. It's an emergency thing - as I see it.
    Last edited by Waahash; Apr 6th, 2011 at 02:18:02.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Melee can't be kited out of range in PvM and ranged really can't be out of ammo. Using your comparison, NTs really should have "infinite ammo" since ranged weapons users do. Because it really really is an appropriate comparison, I agree with you 100% that nano is ammo for NTs and very very rarely should someone run out of ammo in AO.
    And using your comparison, since NTs will have "regulars" now, every other profession should have nuking strength equivalent to NTs. This is perfect for my shade.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    And using your comparison, since NTs will have "regulars" now, every other profession should have nuking strength equivalent to NTs. This is perfect for my shade.
    Haha, I love nonsense. Sorry, I'm all out of troll snacks, feeding time is over.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Haha, I love nonsense.
    That explains it.

  13. #233
    This is one big back and forth circlejerk of flaming between the 2 of you....lets get a few things straight right now.

    First, using the fact that the NT will have a cyberdeck that can do damage for any reason other than as a passing comment is not valid. NT weapon scaling is horrible. We have no crit chance, the thing will never hit in pvp, and so the cyberdeck is no way, shape, or form, a replacement to our nanodamage, end of story.
    ---TL;DR: NTs DO NOT and WILL NOT HAVE *regular* attacks.

    As far as nanopool goes...
    For an NT, the nanopool is our form of offense. Period. No other form of offense exists for the NT. Every other class in the game has other forms of main offense, namely weapons, and in some cases, perks count as main offense (thinking shades mainly here). These do not run out. Melee professions don't have ammo. Ranged professions run out of ammo if they are stupid. Perks have a recharge, yes, but perk mechanics are extremely different than nanopool mechanics for an NT, and really have no place in this discussion. Therefore, when playing a simple offense, DD role, imagine being in a team situation with a good tank, etc, the NT should NOT EVER run out of nano. This fits in with the current situation for every single other class doing DD in this game.
    ---TL;DR: Nano is the only form of offense NTs have, and they should not run out of this offense, just like everyone else.

    DtN: The DtN nanos form our main defense from being hit. As such, it seems correct that these can not be sustained limitlessly. The stray hit or such will be absorbed by the smaller DtN shielding nanos without noticing much of a hit in the nanopool. However, once using NS2, the 100% DtN conversion WILL and SHOULD drain the nanopool very fast if you are under a strong attack. This is only right. The DtN as a normal, and especially as an emergency defense definitely should be able to tax our nanopool resource.

    This makes perfect sense in accordance with other professions as well, and is the only viable comparison to perks with nanopool. Other professions do not have their ability to use defenses affected by using their offense at all: NTs should be able to nuke with impunity without worrying that they will run out of nano needed for the emergency DtN programs. However, with other professions, once they use their emergency defense (coon/limber/DoF/defensive stance) those emergency defenses will last for a short period of time, and will have no affect past that time or after they are broken: Once using the DtN emergency defense nano NS2, NTs should only be able to sustain their nanopool for a short amount of time if they are under attack, before it running out and therefore rendering their defense useless until they regain that nanopool, with the regain analogous to the recharge of emergency defense perk actions.
    ---TL;DR: When using emergency defense nanoprograms, the NT nanopool should run out, and should run out quickly. This is only right and fair.

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    However, with other professions, once they use their emergency defense (coon/limber/DoF/defensive stance) those emergency defenses will last for a short period of time, and will have no affect past that time or after they are broken: Once using the DtN emergency defense nano NS2, NTs should only be able to sustain their nanopool for a short amount of time if they are under attack, before it running out and therefore rendering their defense useless until they regain that nanopool, with the regain analogous to the recharge of emergency defense perk actions.
    ---TL;DR: When using emergency defense nanoprograms, the NT nanopool should run out, and should run out quickly. This is only right and fair.
    The difference is that when other profs use their emergency defenses such as coon/limber/dof/defensive stance) they don't LOSE ANYTHING, they just can't always have them up. They lose no defensive or offensive capability. When a soldier uses TMS, he loses no defensive or offensive capability except that he has to wait for TMS to recharge. But if an NT uses any of the DtN nanos, DtN nanoline or emergency defense, and he is actually doing some tanking, he will likely lose most or all of his nano, making him lose ALL further defensive and offensive capability for a while, and he can't have it up all the time. So no, I don't think it's right or fair.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by ArienSky View Post
    I will join up on the Kintaii initiative and say:
    I disagree on Traders and Doctors relying less on nano than NTs.
    I disagree that any profession should have unlimited nano. Especially that just a single one should, while others struggle.

    Kind Regards
    -Ariensky

    PS. LyrLazarus I did not mention your name. So I in no way, shape or form accused you of not suggesting other costs..
    What I did put was: unlimited nano = silly in a skill-based system (and argument why)
    also I would prefer if you kept God out of your argumentation.
    As far as nanocosts go, I'm going to have to agree with you slightly, but make some clarification.

    Doctors rely on nano just as much as NTs do, this is true. Their reliance on nano, however, is defense/support based, rather than offense. For this reason, they definitely should not be running out of nano instantly, but also should need to watch their nano a bit. They will need to be careful and make sure they always have enough to keep their team healed, whereas NTs need to be able to nuke constantly, since this goes in line with the constant DD other professions can put out, without worrying about nano.

    Traders are also somewhat reliant on nano, but not NEARLY as much as NTs are. In pvp, traders are reliant on nano to debuff and crowd control, but all their other capabilities don't require massive amounts of nano to use. As such, traders need some form of nanocontrol, which they have, in the form of nanodrains. Past this, traders don't have nearly the nano needs that NTs do, and are not a very good comparison.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    The difference is that when other profs use their emergency defenses such as coon/limber/dof/defensive stance) they don't LOSE ANYTHING, they just can't always have them up. They lose no defensive or offensive capability. When a soldier uses TMS, he loses no defensive or offensive capability except that he has to wait for TMS to recharge. But if an NT uses any of the DtN nanos, DtN nanoline or emergency defense, and he is actually doing some tanking, he will likely lose most or all of his nano, making him lose ALL further defensive and offensive capability for a while, and he can't have it up all the time. So no, I don't think it's right or fair.
    If nanocosts of nukes and whatnot are lowered sufficiently, the NT will not have their offensive capabilities impacted significantly by having their nanopool temporarily drained by using emergency DtN nanos. Therefor, even if there is a short period that the NT loses their offense before regaining a small amount of their nanopool, this seems like a not-unreasonable cost to having an emergency defense that completely eliminates all damage taken while the nanopool lasts.

    As far as defensive capability goes, yes, having your nanopool drained will make you completely use defensive capability for a while, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. When a soldier uses TMS, he loses ALL of his defensive capability while TMS recharges. He cant refresh his reflects while in the debuff time, he cant use OMHH, etc. When an enfo or advy etc uses coon, after that is broken, his defensive capability corresponding to that skill is completely gone until it refreshes. Obviously enfos have other innate defenses(they are tanks...) and advys have the acrobat perkline, which also follows this pattern; If you need to pop DoF and Limber to take emergency evasive action, youve got to wait 40 seconds or a minute or w/e the recharge is, I don't remember, until you have that capability available again. So in this way, the NTs losing all defensive capabilities by having their nanopool drained make perfect sense.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    When a soldier uses TMS, he loses ALL of his defensive capability while TMS recharges. He cant refresh his reflects while in the debuff time, he cant use OMHH, etc. When an enfo or advy etc uses coon, after that is broken, his defensive capability corresponding to that skill is completely gone until it refreshes. Obviously enfos have other innate defenses(they are tanks...) and advys have the acrobat perkline, which also follows this pattern; If you need to pop DoF and Limber to take emergency evasive action, youve got to wait 40 seconds or a minute or w/e the recharge is, I don't remember, until you have that capability available again. So in this way, the NTs losing all defensive capabilities by having their nanopool drained make perfect sense.
    Well that's just it, soldiers usually have reflect aura on which isn't overwritten by TMS so it automatically reapplies itself during debuff, so they have as much defense before TMS as after, except yeah they can't use OMHH, which is a small nerf compared to what NTs get. Enfos, advies, etc. don't have anything lowered, they just can't use that ONE ABILITY for a bit. If NTs get all their nano drained from DtN, they can't do anything else like cast layers, blinds, calms, roots, etc. This would be like if an enfo used coon and then was prohibited from mongoing, or after a fixer uses acrobat, all his HOTs get removed and can't be reapplied for a certain period of time, or after an MA or advy uses acrobat, they aren't allowed to use their heals for a while, or something like that. So this is very unequal considering NTs are supposed to be tanks too.
    Last edited by LyrLazarus; Apr 6th, 2011 at 03:53:48.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    First, using the fact that the NT will have a cyberdeck that can do damage for any reason other than as a passing comment is not valid.
    Howso?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    NT weapon scaling is horrible. We have no crit chance, the thing will never hit in pvp, and so the cyberdeck is no way, shape, or form, a replacement to our nanodamage, end of story.
    ---TL;DR: NTs DO NOT and WILL NOT HAVE *regular* attacks.
    Wat? Using current mechanics to talk about proposed changes? That's reasonable I suppose, since it's all we have to work with, but you shut out every other possibility and claim that this will never happen. I'm going to want to see how this turns out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    As far as nanopool goes...
    For an NT, the nanopool is our form of offense. Period. No other form of offense exists for the NT. Every other class in the game has other forms of main offense, namely weapons, and in some cases, perks count as main offense (thinking shades mainly here). These do not run out. Melee professions don't have ammo. Ranged professions run out of ammo if they are stupid. Perks have a recharge, yes, but perk mechanics are extremely different than nanopool mechanics for an NT, and really have no place in this discussion. Therefore, when playing a simple offense, DD role, imagine being in a team situation with a good tank, etc, the NT should NOT EVER run out of nano. This fits in with the current situation for every single other class doing DD in this game.
    ---TL;DR: Nano is the only form of offense NTs have, and they should not run out of this offense, just like everyone else.
    So your damage range on your cyberdeck being excluded because you've thoroughly tested it and said everything that can be said about it - you've claimed that perks do not run out and that everything today is as it will be post-balance. I'm sure you're just debating a literal definition of what we usually think of when something runs out. Melee professions don't have ammo, cool story, I wish I'd have thought of that. If they are out of range they don't have an offense do they? In PvM this isn't as much of a concern as has been defined.

    Ranged professions run out of ammo if they are stupid is just as valid as nanotechnicians running out of nano is their own fault. If you feel that you need to stack as much add nanodamage as possible, blame the nanodoc on your nano woes. All you'd like. I'm excited about the prospect of not having infinite nano for everything all the time - it'll add an element to the profession.

    A perk that misses or a nano that doesn't land isn't the exact same thing - it's still the main offense for a lot of people pvp-wise. I don't see what's so hard about this - you spent the nano and the perk that misses (most of them at least) go into cooldown. You have a nano recharge waiting period (not post balance, you can cast multiple lines zomg). I suppose this isn't the place for it, but I guess if you want to compare it anyway, you define when it is an appropriate comparison. A missed or a landed perk, or special, goes into recharge with the exception of a few perks. We don't get those back at a rate at our choosing, nor do we choose how long we go without it. You have that flexibility, but it will take sacrifice. As for regulars/crits, I'm sure those cyberdecks on live just aren't cutting it as far as a regular hit goes

    If I wanted to make the same argument for any other profession, nobody that wanted to DD as hard as they could should ever run out of perks to execute and should be able to spam all specials. Think of the nanocosts as a way to keep your DD from being absolutely insane and untouchable by any others. It's the way I'm looking at it. It's a challenge I'm willing to brave

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    DtN: The DtN nanos form our main defense from being hit. As such, it seems correct that these can not be sustained limitlessly. The stray hit or such will be absorbed by the smaller DtN shielding nanos without noticing much of a hit in the nanopool. However, once using NS2, the 100% DtN conversion WILL and SHOULD drain the nanopool very fast if you are under a strong attack. This is only right. The DtN as a normal, and especially as an emergency defense definitely should be able to tax our nanopool resource.
    I haven't disagreed to this. I would say your absorbs do a fair bit as well of absorbing damage as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    Other professions do not have their ability to use defenses affected by using their offense at all
    Push DD for spike damage or try to stretch it out with lower "burst" amounts. This is probably what is intended. Going full-on balls to the walls DD while having nano to drop your emergency defenses would be overwhelming in pvp considering the power of the NTs defenses. It would, yes, nullify your offense or defense if you sustained enough damage in NS2, but you aren't expected to run out solo, and maybe you should start casting NS1

    Also tell a shade to activate acrobat or ES while perk chaining something. Their offense can, and does, interrupt their ability to use their defense immediately. An MA that casts their damage buff has a bit of an issue with casting heals. Crats that nuke won't be able to cast fears. Enforcers that rage can't immediately cast their absorbs. You'll have local cooldowns that doesn't do that kind of thing. Think on that a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroatheist View Post
    NTs should be able to nuke with impunity without worrying that they will run out of nano needed for the emergency DtN programs.
    Manage your nanopool ;o

    Why would you feel it's right that you can, potentially in pvp, nuke as hard as you'd like but be untouchable once someone decides to run up to you? Remember that NS1 is not DtN. You drop that and yes, you have no nuking power, but your defense just ruined someone's entire offense (which hey, might have run out even if you don't like to use that term). And due to the way perking interrupts item use, and delays other perks, you would have the upper hand if they didn't get away in time - because you'd still have the nanopool.

    Other professions sacrifice gear to do more damage or survive longer depending on the situation. You'll be making those same choices. Some professions can't do their job as well without nano either. Some professions lose it all without nano. 2 professions I can think of right off the top of my head can do their job quite well without nano - Shades/Keepers. Just because you depend on nano more than others doesn't mean you should infinitely nuke and blow open the DD curve relative to the next person.
    Last edited by Waahash; Apr 6th, 2011 at 03:55:30.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by LyrLazarus View Post
    Well that's just it, soldiers usually have reflect aura on which isn't overwritten by TMS so it automatically reapplies itself during debuff, so they have as much defense before TMS as after. Enfos, advies, etc. don't have anything lowered, they just can't use that ONE ABILITY for a bit. If NTs get all their nano drained from DtN, they can't do anything else like cast layers, blinds, calms, roots, etc. This would be like if an enfo used coon and then was prohibited from mongoing, or after a fixer uses acrobat, all his HOTs get removed and can't be reapplied for a certain period of time, or something like that.
    While I see your point, I believe you aren't considering that NTs are somewhat different from other professions in this way. Regardless of the taunts and whatnot in the new nanodoc, NTs are not exactly meant to be designated tanks, and are, more than any other class in AO, the *Glass Cannons*. As such, we don't have many defenses. The defenses we have are extremely powerful for short amounts of time, emergency defenses. We don't, and based on our role, shouldn't need more static defenses than that. With the fantastic power that our nukes and toolset provides, NTs have the drawback of having the least defenses of any profession in AO, and that seems rather justified.

    As far as using layers, blinds, calms, and roots after using a defensive go, I believe that all of those nanolines, with the possible exception of layers, should have their nanocosts reduced, just like the nukes, to the point that using them with a very minimal nanopool after using an emergency DtN program will not be an issue.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Waahash View Post
    If I wanted to make the same argument for any other profession, nobody that wanted to DD as hard as they could should ever run out of perks to execute and should be able to spam all specials. Think of the nanocosts as a way to keep your DD from being absolutely insane and untouchable by any others. It's the way I'm looking at it. It's a challenge I'm willing to brave
    Actually by definition the cooldown and recharge on our damage nanos is the way to cap damage. Cooldown = recharge on perks and specials. No we don't need more than one way of capping damage.

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