Clean-slate tower wipe at Re-balance Live Launch

[Lektronik]

I think that performing a complete tower wipe, and starting with a clean slate, at the live launch of the rebalance would be a good idea.

Of course you would want to return all towers to their respective owners' inventories.

Reasons I think this is a good idea:

1) The game is grossly imbalanced right now and the current tower field situation reeks of this imbalance.

2) You might greatly improve the balance of the game, but the current situation is lopsided. All players (new, old, and returning) might enjoy the greater balance, but the old fields and side xp issues will be like walking in thick mud wearing brand new hiking shoes.

3) Speaking of RK1, currently you will see either a mountainous uphill battle or a ridiculously easy downhill stampede in terms of the side xp/tower field situation, depending on which side you choose. If you are trying to bring new players in and keep them, you don't want them to have to choose between an uphill battle or downhill stampede.


Anyway, this is my opinion. My apologies if this has been suggested elsewhere. Ciao.

[madmax]

The tower situation is a matter of numbers and pull. A wipe will only make the owners plant their towers again.

And I am omni in RK1. If my side wants to win it needs to set priorities and if FC wants tower wars they have to make it more interesting there is no way to force players into battle. Obviously mechs did not work.

[Chrazy]

The problem is (and always was) that numbers will always win because of CC.

[n3oheals]

Why not turn the side XP around? More towers = less side xp because you already have bonuses from the towers. Would mean more new players join the side with less towers and thus creating balance.

[Obtena]

So what does that accomplish? If nothing changes with mechanics then it just delays the inevitable ... the state towers are in now.

[Gridpain]

Why not turn the side XP around? More towers = less side xp because you already have bonuses from the towers. Would mean more new players join the side with less towers and thus creating balance.

That is actualy a good idea, because the current system increases the balance tipping toward one side or the other.
But expect a huge whine fest.

[Wrangeline]

The tower situation is a matter of numbers and pull. A wipe will only make the owners plant their towers again.

Not really. At least I don't think it's that easy.

There are 2 reasons why omni on RK1, for example, haven't taken back any towers since clan "took over".

1. Numbers.
2. Morale (or whatever word fits best for this)

One of the problems with numbers is that the winning side has obvious advantages with their towers, xp and contracts. If you enjoy PvP'ing, the odds are higher that you will leave the game if you constantly feel like you have a constant disadvantage and that nothing is being done to change it. There's no real reason why so many more omnis would leave than clan other than something that is omni specific. Which can only be lack of initiative with tara, NW and such. This lack of initiative creates more boredom and frustration and so more people leave, making it even harder to get stuff back. Which leads to even more people leaving. It's a bad cycle that needs to end.

What the losing side needs are:

1. More people.
2. Morale.

Now, the idea of resetting towers after engine/balance is live is actually a good idea over all because the reset of towers sparks moral and initiative with omnis. The omnis that are currently not playing will see that there's finally a chance for NW and tara. There's no better time to spark a revolution than just after a tower-wipe and increase in players.

If this wipe is not done, then theoretically, the balance between the factions will just get even worse. Clan has control of NW and tara on RK1 atm. When the new engine and balance goes live, all those people that are on the fence about returning will look at the situation for what it is. Clanners will think "I get new engine, balance, tara, towers, no better time to go back to AO than now". Omni on the other hand might think "New engine and balance is cool but the game is still dead since Clan owns all towers and tara so I'll probably get bored after the novelty of the engine wears off."

The one thing we do know for sure is that the game is getting worse by the god damn minute the way things are atm. Something has to be done about it and soon.

If FC does a wipe and clan simply replant towers then nothing has changed and it wasn't a big deal at all. Nothing worth getting bent out of shape over. If anything FC would just help guilds clear sites of towers owned by players that no longer play. Allowing guilds to replant towers with active players.

If FC does a wipe and the losing side gets a second wind and we get a lot of action and extra players out of it, then that's obviously a good thing.

If FC does nothing then we will just continue on this sliding slope we are on. And the game will be kept alive by those that think the PVM and non-faction-related content in AO is enough to warrant a subscription. Until one day it sputters to a halt and just dies all together.

All in all, there's not really anything to be lost by doing a wipe but there are a lot of things that could be gained from it. So based on that, why not do it?

In addition, FC should introduce more "spring-mechanics" to NW so that this domination and complete stagnation of PvP doesn't happen again. By "spring" I mean a spring of sorts at each extreme of NW that keeps anyone from going 100% one way or 100% the other way. Like both omni and clan (and neutral I guess) having tower sites that are always owned by their respective factions, even when they are destroyed. Taking down such a site would give temporary benefits to the attackers, until the site is automatically rebuilt. This would let both clan and omni always have something to attack and something to defend. Keeping NW from becoming completely stagnant. This is just a random idea but you get the general point. Something has to be done to keep AO from falling into the same black hole it's currently in. But we also have to get OUT of this hole as well and a wipe might help with that. If the timing is right and there's never been a better timing for this than right after engine and rebalance.

[Gridpain]

Btw, this would need a (temp) removal of tower flag

[Waahash]

Why not turn the side XP around? More towers = less side xp because you already have bonuses from the towers. Would mean more new players join the side with less towers and thus creating balance.

Interesting suggestion. While I don't think it'd be as clear cut as "join the side with more exp" for alot of people, I think it might have a chance at spurring activity because there would be those that would join because of that

However, since exp is an availability to all, not a temporary or long-lasting benefit, such as planting a tower (and it may or may not be destroyed soon after planting), the bonuses to exp may not sway veterans, but could sway newer players which wouldn't have as much an impact on pvp at higher levels to begin with - it wouldn't exactly be balance. Since everyone can level regardless of side exp bonuses (and I don't roll an alt thinking about it honestly), I doubt it does much for balance to begin with.

I guess if towers were a motivation for performance, exp could be a motivation for speed.

I could bump that I suppose.

[delsabre]

In addition, FC should introduce more "spring-mechanics" to NW so that this domination and complete stagnation of PvP doesn't happen again.

Thought about this before and I agree.

Award victory points for being active at a tower battle.
If side % is "too low", scale the damage caps in pvp (while at a land control area) by maybe up to 10% up and down and give the weaker side a slight VP boost to give people a reason to show up and try.

The way this was handled in the past by forcing Neuts into joining OT was really annoying.

[Hellrule]

They need to fix notum wars period. Tower contracts/towers need to be changed to benefit the faction globally and not be such a huge pvp advantage. Sort of like how global research was supposed to be. Side xp bonus, credits, discounts on shops, iprs things like that. Make them worth having.

Side xp at 10% isnt much. Let the winning side have 25%. 50% Reduced costs on iprs, shop stuff. Id fight for that

Edit: mech bonuses , stronger guards for your city. Role players think of more role playing possibilitiea

[Lektronik]

If FC does a wipe and clan simply replant towers then nothing has changed and it wasn't a big deal at all. Nothing worth getting bent out of shape over. If anything FC would just help guilds clear sites of towers owned by players that no longer play. Allowing guilds to replant towers with active players.

If FC does a wipe and the losing side gets a second wind and we get a lot of action and extra players out of it, then that's obviously a good thing.

You make some good points here. In my OP, I had intentions of addressing the replanting of the towers issue, but it was late last night so I got sleepy.

My idea is that FC has "hosted events" where they would unlock certain groups of tower fields at previously announced time intervals. Omni, Neutral, and Clan forces would gather at these events and cause a mass raid for the tower sites.

I would consider continuing these hosted events until a pre-determined side xp has been reached by one of the 3 factions (such as 10%), and/or perhaps until a definite controlling portion of important tower sites has been obtained by a faction.

Once these hosted events are complete, then release the remaining towers on the regular schedule.

Btw, this would need a (temp) removal of tower flag

This would be wise. We would want all available players, even if they are just cannon fodder. We wouldn't want to discourage any PVM'ers with a tower flag. This would be temporary, for the hosted events.

[Lheann]

Make towers have value that you can not do without. This is interesting point. At NW release the tower bonuses were impressive. These days you can do with out most of them. Power creep has made tower bonuses seems lack luster. Not having towers was a huge nerf to yourself at NW release.

1. Make tower bonuses desirable. uber at the edge of WTF crazy type bonuses.

Having a tower site should reap some credit reward. Um no way in hell. At least in the basic sense. Having a tower site should reduce city rent by some percentage. Having multiple should reduce it further. Some of the orgs with high priced cities could find that worth fighting for. It is credits for notum but those credits are ear marked for city rent only.

2. Towers mining notum reduce city rent by some percentage.

Gear that can be only equipped if you have towers and stays out of OE only as long as you have towers. To equip this gear you have to target the CT and get buff that enables the equipping. Sort of like bazzit's library and AI armor. If you have no towers then your items drop to 50% effectiveness. This would make it important to take and hold towers. I think that holding lower level fields would become viable as well. After all would you want your gear to depend only on your 250 field? No I would not. So maybe this would encourage towers at all levels.

3. Make towers required gear and weapons. Give the weapons a new damage modifier called PVP damage add. It only is added in PVP. That way PVM can stay somewhat balanced. But for PVP these weapons would rock.

Towers should be about dying a lot. The towers need to have damage such that a team of 2 twinks just gets slaughtered. When it takes 6+ people to take a single tower down you will have larger battles.

4. Make it very challenging. 1 or 2 twinks powning a field sucks.

Yeah just some random thought and my conclusions after each.

[Armus]

Hey why don't we take it all the way and delete all orgs and toons as well. Just think of of equal we will all be tomorrow then.

[Lektronik]

1. Make tower bonuses desirable. uber at the edge of WTF crazy type bonuses.

I can see a benefit to a restructuring of the towers so that they buff more important skills, however, I don't think we'd want to see "WTF crazy" skill buffing as that might promote griefing and lend an unfair dis-advantage to those who don't like pvp.

2. Towers mining notum reduce city rent by some percentage.

4. Make it very challenging. 1 or 2 twinks powning a field sucks.

I like these two ideas.

[jorricane]

4. Make it very challenging. 1 or 2 twinks powning a field sucks.

I like that - how about a 200-300% reflect on towers if they have less than 6 (or 12 or 20 or whatever) enemies on the hatelist? Could be abused with pets and multilogging or whatever, but if damage is beefed up and maybe an AoE added that would effectively eliminate using a bunch of medsuited fr00bs to pad out the hatelist.

[Worldofalts]

wouldn't surprise me if Dev's introduce instanced tower sites in the near future, that overwrites side xp bonus and gives a static 5-10% XP bonus to org that has a iTowerfield. would this kill towers? hell no, as pvm'ers only bite the bullet and do towers when they need to get some equipment on, and even then as someone else pointed out, its not really necessary for most gear these days.
the real kicker would be if they put a nice 250-500m per month (or possibly per week) price tag on an iTowersite, and it would serve no purpose other than contracts and a modest xp buff. thats a damn good money sink if i ever saw it, and after having an iTowersite for a couple weeks/months and getting fed up with the cost, orgs might be addicted enough to the benefits and band together more effectively to take on real towersites for the same benefits, minus the money sink.

sure, its not a perfect solution. I've yet to see a better one though. as a pvm lover, who only pvp's in other games for the most part, I have to say that pvp in ao is frakked as it is on too many levels. Lets pray rebalance does something to change alot of our (the pvm'ers) minds. if it doesn't, some more radical solutions (like the one i just wrote) will be needed to twist our arm.

[Gwenhwyfer]

Let's just share towers and Tara between clan and omni. Clan can hold towers every odd week, while omnis every even week. Then we could also form a circle, hold hands and sing "kumbaya my lord".

Here's a better alternative:
Controlling tower sites should have more incentive for those less inclined to do pvp. For example, side xp would also be converted to a discount for buying and selling in sided shops or something else along those lines.

If one side dominates the pvp field, it's the pvm:ers who will quit first.

Enjoy a sunny tuesday everyone!

Edit: and if you're annoyed by two twinks killing towers, try making your own twinks to defend. Usually it takes two twinks to kill two twinks. How hard can that be...

[Johnnykay]

They need to fix notum wars period. Tower contracts/towers need to be changed to benefit the faction globally and not be such a huge pvp advantage. Sort of like how global research was supposed to be. Side xp bonus, credits, discounts on shops, iprs things like that. Make them worth having.

Side xp at 10% isnt much. Let the winning side have 25%. 50% Reduced costs on iprs, shop stuff. Id fight for that

Edit: mech bonuses , stronger guards for your city. Role players think of more role playing possibilitiea

Chicken gyro please. And for God sakes, wash your hands.

[Blackcradle]

Tower wars in their current implimentation just aren't fun PvP. If you want to call them PvP. Smaller-scale tower war battles that resemble BS numbers can be fun, but they're fleeting and the time spent actually PvPing is small. I love PvP in this game and BS is one of the primary reasons my account is active currently. But tower wars just suck; tons of lag, everyone spamming assist and specials while waiting to be inevitably CC'd. And then the "PvP" part lasts maybe 5 minutes after about a half hour + of buildup.