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Thread: MP Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #61
    Updated the 3rd post in this thread with answers to several questions asked thus far. On some, will need to wait for Dev clarification.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    Ninja doc post! Saw it before bed last night, but decided to comment in the morning.

    ...

    To sum up my main criticisms, I'm unhappy with the extremely severe cooldowns on a lot of our debuffs. NSD is the only debuff that should have it's duration be less than or equal to it's cooldown (and not 1/4 less than it's up time ffs). The -healeff%/-nanodam% and damage debuff nanos should at least break even on duration vs. cooldown. The +nanocost should have a higher duration vs. it's cooldown (20/15). My opinion is that more often than not, our fights should be won with/because of debuffs and not merely straight damage. Our debuffs give us our fighting uniqueness, everyone has damage.
    I agree NSD is now useless in pve and even more in pvp (to much remoover or imunity) and our damage debuff seems pvp only. We lost coc (too bad that would have been great with the cooldown system). We ll not be debuffers any more.

    I fear that mps will stay unwanted in pve or pvp teams as they are now.
    Engy have blockers+reflect, crat have aad/aao+xp, that's a huge boost for a team .

    Who will u chose for your team between the 3 pet prof after rebalance ??

    Leduc69 Soli MP 220/30
    Duckz Trox FIX 220/30
    Duczor Opi MA 220/25
    Theducman Nano NT 165/23
    Lazzay Soli CRAT 150/20
    Ducshot Trox TRAD 141


    Chest-kicker since 2007 - http://thespartans.org

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    I think they over-wrie each other don't they? So you'd just cast the new one and it would replace the old one...

    X
    Nope, they have diferent stack order.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  4. #64
    and our damage debuff seems pvp only
    Eh?

    Damage Debuff isn't PvP only. It's PvM too.

    You also get 70% NanoDamage debuff - which can be staggered alongside NSD to give debuff to mob nukes for 80% of the time.

    You can also cast the Nemesis debuff on mobs now, from what I can tell in the document - which is another 10s debuff of 100% Nanodamage reduction - though that's only every 2 minutes.

    Finally, because a lot of the limitations is done with immunity and not cool-down - we can switch from mob to mob and debuff more freely - so there's some advantages in encounters with more than one mob.

    Don't get me wrong... I'd like to see longer NSD durations in PvM... and I'd like to see the immunity duration reduced. But the picture isn't quite as bad as it's being painted by some either.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Mar 22nd, 2011 at 17:12:05.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  5. #65
    Nope, they have diferent stack order.
    Hmmm well that's no good if that's the case. They need to over-write each other so that we can change the proc as needed in play.

    That's definitely one to add to the request list.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    Klod,

    It's a bit disconcerting to read your comparison of this document to another document that most of us never had the chance of seeing in the first place. It's like hearing only one half of an argument...
    That's why I added stuff from that doc as a comparison (f.ex. - suggestion to add (keep?) damage template on shields and 5/5 attack/recharge).

    My guess on all of the creation attack ratings, is that they're there so that people can access the perk specials from weapon-based perks. And because people did ask for them.
    I understand. However, it should be done in some better way, not like this.

    Do you think that the Unique flag on the 1HB weapons could be a typo? Doesn't make sense to have a dual-wield requirement on the weapons if you can't effectively dual-wield them, I guess...
    I hope so.

    Why wouldn't you be able to use the Fling Shot on the creation bows?
    Mainly because it was common for creation weapons not to have specials of any kind. Just asking, to be sure.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    Eh?

    Damage Debuff isn't PvP only. It's PvM too.

    ...

    X
    but the Damage Debuff Immunity from our debuff wont disable crat/trader to land their stuff ?

    Leduc69 Soli MP 220/30
    Duckz Trox FIX 220/30
    Duczor Opi MA 220/25
    Theducman Nano NT 165/23
    Lazzay Soli CRAT 150/20
    Ducshot Trox TRAD 141


    Chest-kicker since 2007 - http://thespartans.org

  8. #68
    As far as I know, if the weapon has the requirement for the special skill.. then it has the special. I'm not aware of any exceptions...

    But it's worth double-checking I guess.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  9. #69
    Ty Justin for the answer

    But... Why FC devs dont want MPs to be desireable in teams and have a heavy debuffer role?
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  10. #70
    but the Damage Debuff Immunity from our debuff wont disable crat/trader to land their stuff ?
    I'm not sure that I'm following your argument. The Damage debuffs can be cast in PvM. They have effect on the mob. The immunity only stops MP Dmg Debuffs from landing (and I suppose in theory, a range of mob damage debuffs).

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  11. #71
    ok ty though it was for all dd debuff (from any prof)

    Leduc69 Soli MP 220/30
    Duckz Trox FIX 220/30
    Duczor Opi MA 220/25
    Theducman Nano NT 165/23
    Lazzay Soli CRAT 150/20
    Ducshot Trox TRAD 141


    Chest-kicker since 2007 - http://thespartans.org

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by lainbr View Post
    Ty Justin for the answer

    But... Why FC devs dont want MPs to be desireable in teams and have a heavy debuffer role?
    Two different questions there . FC does want MPs to be desirable in teams, and the improved pet healing, nuke DD and perk based nano-regeneration look like the big improvements we're getting that will hopefully make it easier for us to find teams (especially the nano-regeneration). However, they are trying to move away from debuffs that are crippling when they land. The reasoning is that debilitating buffs require bosses to be resistant or even immune (see for instance all the boss mobs immune to UBT and NSD), but make trash mobs too easy. With long downtimes on the powerful debuffs, it allows them to remove immunities from boss mobs, making debuffs useful against nearly all content, rather than alternating between useless and OP. Our debuffs won't be as good as they are now, granted, but they will work on more mobs we'd really like them to work on .

  13. #73

    New Alpha Nuke and Finishing Nuke Line

    User: Specialization: & Fourth on a lvl 30/40 Nuke, why?

    Both lines have 8 nukes, it should be easy to bring them into line with the specializers.
    Last edited by Nukedukednw; Mar 22nd, 2011 at 18:44:28.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Nukedukednw View Post
    User: Specialization: & Fourth on a lvl 40 Nuke, why?
    Prolly a typo. And I just noticed this specs weird requirements on: lower CMo, Summon Attack Pet, Healling pets and on Nukes you mentioned.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    You also get 70% NanoDamage debuff - which can be staggered alongside NSD to give debuff to mob nukes for 80% of the time.
    Bosses don't only have nukes though, there also is bosses with AoE cripling effects (init, nanoskill debuffs, stuns, ...) and those can sometimes be much more dangerous.


    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    However, they are trying to move away from debuffs that are crippling when they land. The reasoning is that debilitating buffs require bosses to be resistant or even immune (see for instance all the boss mobs immune to UBT and NSD), but make trash mobs too easy. With long downtimes on the powerful debuffs, it allows them to remove immunities from boss mobs, making debuffs useful against nearly all content, rather than alternating between useless and OP. Our debuffs won't be as good as they are now, granted, but they will work on more mobs we'd really like them to work on .
    It's something I really like about AO: debuffs actually work and don't have some barely notable effect as in some other games, they never last more then a couple of seconds which really freaks me out. It allows for strategic debuffing.

    I highly doubt that the current proposal will make MP's wanted in raids because they are not really going to be needed. It is impossible to make the nano's of bossmobs really powerful since the bossmobs can't be NSDed all the time.
    The only strategy in pvm with such a short duration would be to predict when the boss will cast it's nano and NSD then. Theoretically this might work in some occasions, but practically this requires such a finetuned timing (seconds...) that it's very unlikely to work.

    Debuffs like NSD make for an extra layer of strategy. I have the feeling that FC is dumbing it down to only damage and healing which makes me sad.
    Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
    Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
    Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!

  16. #76
    gripes:
    - Zset being a quest reward for a really hard quest has been reduced to that of a RK dyna drop nano.
    - weapon AR being flipped to 100% weapon + 25% nano. with dark blue weapon skills and no support in any of the alpha symbs we get for 2hb, that's going to reduce available AR to something along the lines of 1.5-1.8k. were not going to be able to hit end game content with these things, much less people in pvp. the heavy nerf to the quest staves (redfire atleast, didn't check the others yet) doesn't justify this either. it sums up to less damage, twice the attack time, and half the AR. atleast when the AR was 80% TS we had a way to buff it up more.
    - weapon attack times in general are bad, i don't think any other profession will have 2/2 or 3/3 for their weapons.


    Likes:
    - new pets, love them! the reqs on them are rather high and i agree that nano doctorate perk line needs to be looked into and improved since it's going to be needed for these. 2 NSD removal perks for a nsd that's not much of a threat anymore is kinda pointless.

    - creation bows. i'll prolly be switching to these since zset is a lost cause for what i used it for, and we get -alot- more support for bow.

    - anchor/recall. 1s cast is great, i actually actively used these when doing pande raids, and could bring back some poor soul when he met his doom. being able to cast them on the fly now and not hold up the raid is a major +

    - DtP. i like the idea.

    - evade buffs, that's a very nice add.

    - notum crystals. lower cast time, <3

    - nukes. look very nice, would have appriciated these more with my zset setup, but i think that could be a bit OP ^_^

    - icons. just wow. i love the new icons. no longer do i have to shift click each moch to make sure i'm casting the correct one. mad love to the artist.


    i like the general idea that they are going with here, i just hope that the new pets are worth the loss of a total defensive setup and the nano skills to cast them. i also hope to see perk lines changed to be more useful. other then that, and in respect to the scourge pet..... are we there yet?....
    Former Assistant Director of Pack of Noobs

    Fake Friday with Means, and it worked!

  17. #77
    I just noticed but it seems the heal pet now heals our pets for up to 8000 points of health. That is...quite a lot lol.

    On the parry shields how about we have the %snare and %root resist changed to a static +10% damage to pet boost. It would still fall within the "deflect" status of the shield and be more practical I believe.

    If the Mesmeric Gaze works as I have read it, it is a possible 10 second long AOE stun/mez? If so it would probably need to be adjusted down a bit. AOE mezzing at all seems a bit too far reaching for what an MP should be capable of doing.


    Overall I am finding more enjoyable aspects to the doc each time. As for NSD in pvm, it never got paid MP's teamed in major raids anyways so the only issue would be the froobs which I can understand. If mobs are more likely to indicate a "major nuke" and made NSD a reactionary tool at the most, then everything should be ok. I do not think you should be forced to have an NSD wielding MP that can also permanently NSD a mob for every pvm raid however, I would much rather have another reason to invite them to the team such as high damage and -2300 damage debuffs.

    Based on the document I see no reason to even require NSD to kill anyone in pvp, everything else will incredibly effective in killing opponents.

  18. #78
    And now Gatester wanna nerf our Mezz pet. Shrug.

    Our mezz pet was always a10s calm, now its AoE, and pvm. In pvp its root.

    Now go away and stop to say we MPs dont deserve it!
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  19. #79
    Given that it's less mezzing ability than Advs(!) will have post re-balance, an AOE mezz pet seems fair to me. It's a really nice PvM improvement, true, but it does not seem in any way imbalanced, particularly in view of the harsh SoZ nerf (which was pretty critical to soloing difficult content).

  20. #80
    Glad to see this doc, finally!
    The positive thing is that it seems MP will be a medium hard prof to play, expecially in pvp.
    Goodbye lovely pistol setup
    220/30 Lordlawrence
    200/2x Pampero
    Ever wondered what's like making an OP toon? 30/3 Forum
    25/3 Killergoa

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