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Thread: MP Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #1

    MP Nano Document Discussion Thread

    Meta-Physicist Nano Document - March 21th (Excel File)

    (BTW - text by JustinSane4, so if something's wrong, blame me not Dancingrage )

    (Edit - Correction: The Asp of Titaniush should have a 2/2 attack recharge, not 1/8. This will be fixed. Kintaii Edit: Fixed internally, will be reflected in the next release of the doc =))

    It's finally here .

    There are some big changes, which on the whole should really help fix a lot of our problems. Our nanos have changed more than most professions, and while we're gaining a lot we're losing some things too.

    The big gains: Our healing is dramatically (roughly 4x) better, and heal values are doubled from that when the heal pet is healing itself or any other pet. We get new pets (including endgame mezz and heal pets and a Notum Scourge 2,500 MC/TS req attack pet). Our attack pets will have AR comparable to the AR of similar level combat professions (so don't worry about the removal of AAO buffs). We get static damage to pet (starting at 10% and reaching 20% by endgame). We get heavy hitting nukes (though at heavy nano-costs). We get new creation bows, and most creation weapons have been improved.

    The big losses: NSD is nerfed (can only be up 25% of the time on a given target now - but the bright side is it will work on many endgame bosses now). We lose dominates and unmakes. Sacrifical Shielding is gone, SoZ is heavily nerfed (reflects gone, AAD roughly halved), but it's also picking up about twice it's current NR, will buff parry, and and over 2k health and nano. Curse of Chronos is gone.

    Anyway, that's a short summary, and I recommend reading the more detailed breakdown below as well as scouring the actual nano-document.


    (text here by JustinSane4 also -so again, blame me)

    סּ Things That Have Been Removed:

    • Curse of Chronos
    • Dominates
    • Unmakes
    • Sacrificial Shielding
    • Pet intiative buffs
    • Healthy Manifestation
    • Evocation of the Pure/Cleansed/Enlightened/Empowered/Reinforced


    סּ Creation Weapons:

    • Shield of Zset: SoZ is getting turned into an extension of the Red Shield line, so it loses ALL reflects, but keeps some of it's Add All Def (total of 323), and it's 500 Nano init, which is also added through the Red Shield line. It also loses all of its NR.

    • Construct Empowerment Buffs: These are being changed and are now rather awesome. Each quest staff will upload buffs for all three pets, with each successive staff buffing for more. The buffs will work while wielding any creation weapon. The first level buff adds 100 poison damage and changes damage type to poison on the attack pet, adds a 10% heal modifier to the heal pet and 200 SI/PM to the mezz pet. The second adds 200 poison damage, changes the damage type to poison, adds a 20% heal modifier and 300 SI/PM. The third adds 300 poison damage, changes the damage type to poison, adds a 25% heal modifier and 400 SI/MP.

    • Creation Bows: These will attack at 100% Bow/25% TS against 100% Dodge Range and use Ranged Intiative, have 3/3 attack/recharge, and buff nano-attack damage modifier, MC, bow special attack and nano range.

    • Creation weapons now have 1/1 cast/recharge times and don't set our health and nano to 1.
    • Creation weapons now all attack at 100% weapon(1hb or 2hb) 25% TS, meaning that they will work with weapon specific perk actions.
    • Blue and Yellow shield lines have been improved quite a bit and Red Shields have been improved a bit on AAD but lose the fire reflect.
    • 1hb creations staves before Asp of Titaniush have better damage.
    • Creation 2hb staves will buff nanodamage and nano delta, which with our shiny new nukes should make them an excellent PvM damage option.


    סּ Debuffs:

    • Nano Shutdown: NSD now has a 9 second cool down, a 7 second duration, a 100% nanoresist defense check, and casts an NSD immunity nano on the target when it dies that lasts 21 seconds (meaning that we can have NSD up 7 of any 28 seconds, or 25% of the time, on any given target). ENSD is nearly identical but has a 3 second cooldown, shared with NSD, and a 90% nanoresist defense check.

    Mixed News:
    • Heal Modifier and Nano-Damage Modifier: These two debuff lines have been merged, the line has been extended down to lower levels and the top line debuffs for 70% rather than 50%. However, they now have a 10 second duration and at the end of that 10 second duration they cast a 20 second immunity to the nano-line. In other words, we'll be able to have it up 1/3 the time. It can be used PvM now.

    • Damage & Initiative Debuffs: These two lines have been merged into one. The values it debuffs are much greater now, capping out at -2,351 damage and -470 initiative, but like the Heal/Nano-damage modifiers it has a 10 second duration followed by 20 second immunity, and thus can only be up 1/3 the time on a given target.


    סּ Pet Nanos:

    • Pet Add-All-Offense Buffs: We have no pet AAO buffs (but our pets are being re-designed will have decent AR without them).

    • Damage to Pet: New nano line, starting at 10% DtP and scaling up to 20% DtP at the top end. MP gets hit, damage goes to the pet.

    • Attack Pet Proc Lines: Three lines added. We can choose between running a 100% chance damage proc, a 100% taunt 10% snare proc and a 100% AAO/AAD debuff.

    • Pet Damage Buff: Our short term pet Damage buffs now increase Aggressiveness, which is a pet taunt modifier.


    סּ Pet Summons:

    • New Attack Pets: A new Notum Scourge attack pet requiring 2,500 MC/2,500 TS to cast, and three new SL attack pets at level locks 215, 205, and 145. The Notum Scourge will replace The Rihwen pet; The Rihwen will instead be the 215 pet. If you already have Summon The Rihwen, you will now have Summon Herlikhan the Fierce,

    • New Heal Pets: New and vastly improved heal pets (the old heal pets are getting improved also). Heal pets will be as tough to kill as attack pets. The new top heal pet, lvl locked to 215, will heal for 651/second unmodified, 814/second with the top construct empowerment buff running OR with Soothing Spirits 10 perked and no construct empowerment buff running, and 1017.5/second with both Soothing Spirits 10 perked AND the top construct empowerment buff running. Belamorte will now have 224.4 HPS unmodified and 314.16 HPS with Soothing Spirits 7 perked and the second construct empowerment buff running. Heal values will be doubled when cast on pets. We can actually heal our pets now.

    • New Mezz Pets: New mezz pets level locked to 207 and 215. Mezz pets now cast their mezz as a 10m AoE - In PvP this will be a 10m AoE root. The mezz pet will also have the same health values as the healing and attack pets.

    Mixed News:
    • Pet Casting: Pets will now cast faster (15 second cast time on attack pets, 10 second on mezz and heal pets) but will have a 60 second cool down. Meaning that if you can't keep the new pet alive for at least one minute, you'll be petless for a while.


    סּ Nukes:

    • Special Effect Nukes: These nukes have a 5 second attack time capped at 1 second, a 1 second recharge, a 5 second cool down and debuff nanoskills for 6 seconds. The top special effect nuke will have 1,227 average DPS and debuff nanoskills by 300. EDIT - THIS WAS WRONG BEFORE (changed with the public document release and I didn't catch it). This has the second lowest nano-cost, not the lowest.

    • Base Nukes: These have a 1 second attack time, a 1 second recharge and a 4 second cool down. They have the lowest nano cost at 3 damage per nano spent, and the top nuke does 1,545.8 DPS. They can only be used with creation weapons or a quest staff.

    • Alpha Nukes: Alpha Nukes have a 6 second attack time capped at 3 seconds with a 1 second recharge and a 20 second cool down. The top alpha nuke does 8,000 cold damage (or 400 DPS). They have quite a high nanocost.

    • Finishing Nukes: These nukes have a 1 second attack time, 1 second recharge and a 20 second cool down. They can only be used against targets that are at less than half health and the top nuke does 6,000 damage (or 300 DPS). They have quite a high nanocost.
    • Each nuke line is on its own, separate lockout ("local cooldown") meaning that the recharge of one nuke will not effect the other.


    סּ Buffs:

    • Damage Over Time Resistance Buff: A new DOT A, Agent DOT and NT DOT (but not DOT C or DOT B) resistance line that starts at 5% and scales up to 25% and protects our pets as well. It uses zero NCU and has a 4 hour duration, so hey, cool. This can buff both the MP and their pets.

    • Pet Root & Snare Reduction: Same as the bureaucrats and engineers are getting.

    • Evade Buffs: 4 new evade buffs, topping out at 250 evade/duck/dodge and including a 150/evade/duck/dodge that can be cast on target.

    • Advanced Symbol Manipulation: Buff improved to 140 nano-programming from 92, Symbol Helper to 50 from 20.

    Mixed News:
    • Odin's Missing Eye: The nanoskill buff portion of Odin's Missing eye has been moved into our Infuses and Mochams instead (will buff us the extra 40 nanoskills but not others). The nanoskill buff portion of Odin's Other eye has been moved into composite Mochams. The new nano icons for Odin's Missing Eye and Odin's Other Eye are awesome (thanks Docaholic! ). Odin's Missing Eye no longer debuffs max health.


    סּ Misc:

    • Tap Notum Vein: Inferno and Penumbra garden warps added, all garden warps now have 10 second attack times capped at 10 seconds.

    • LE Nemesis Nano: This now debuffs nano-damage scaling up with the targets Max Nano and topping out at -100%. It has a 10 second duration and a 20 second cooldown.

    • Crystals: Nano-crystal summons now last forever, have 5/1 cast/recharge times and don't drain our nanopool on completion.

    • Buff Duration: Greatly improved durations on our buffs.

  2. #2
    Ok, answers to a few questions - will get to the others as I can/as I get answers from FC (JustinSane4 here).

    Just wanting to double-check.... It looks like DtP stacks with soldier reflect buffs - in that they're in a different line. So we'd essentially get a total of 50% reflects with DtP + RRFE.... without it being tied to using a creation. Am I right there?
    • Yes, that's right. 50% reflects with DtP + RRFE.

    I don't see why NSD needs such a nerf in pvm. As I understand in the paid pvm world NSD is barely used at all because it's not needed. So then there is 2 places where NSD is used currently: pvp and froob pvm. For pvp I can understand a short duration and an immunity. For pvm it just becomes even more useless. 7 seconds is nothing in pvm unless you can predict when a boss is going to nuke or cast harmful effects. What happened to the different effect in pvp vs pvm idea some dev mentioned once?
    • The current NSD is useless in most endgame PvM because the bosses resist it, or use nuke procs rather than actual nanos. With the current shorter duration/lockout mechanic for our debuff, it will no longer be necessary for bosses to have innate resistances to NSD and our other debuffs. So rather than crippling Hezak and being useless in most other raids, it will be useful on most raids but not decisive anywhere.

      Kintaii Edit: Pretty much what Justin said on this one. I want to note for the lowbie/froob players, we are adding a lower-level version of NSD to the document, so you guys aren't left out on that front. =)

    About the Damage-to-Pet thing: First I'll say I'm glad something like this made it into game for MPs but my question is does this line only affect the attack pets health? Or is there an order? What's the story?
    • Will need to wait for Dev confirmation on this, but my understanding is that it only affects the attack pet's health.

      Kintaii Edit: As it stands, this will currently effect all pets - If you get hit, all three take a whack. This is mostly due to code issues to my understanding, and may change in the future, but that's what we're rolling with at the moment.

    EDIT: WTF?!!!!! We lost pet init buffs?!!! Now they are back to slowpoke spot? :x
    • Pets are being re-designed from the ground up with the intent of being useful from the second we cast them, rather than gimp until we've buffed them with half a dozen different nanos. I wouldn't worry too much about this one .

    Oh, whatever happened to getting different debuff pets instead of a strict mez?
    • No longer happening, but hey, AOE mezz! That's cool at least... right? (Actually I was hoping for a bit of variety there myself).

      Kintaii Edit: For the record we haven't forgotten about this. We've thought about a series of nanos which let you 'change' what the Mezz pet does, but we haven't decided if we want to implement it through the rebalancing or if it's something we may want to save for later down the line - Gotta keep *some* shinies for future quests/boosters/etc. etc.

    Is sheol quest staff locked to 175 now and inf to 200? Sheol is lvl 100+ zone if i remember correctly, those staffs shouldnt be level locked st all.
    • No level locks on the staffs themselves, but the construct empowerment buffs are locked to 207 for level 2 (from the healing staff) and 212 for level 3 (from the aggressive staff). The first level construct empower buff isn't level locked.

    There is a dead zone between lvl 116 and 160 in terms of creation weapons. Lvl 150 is very popular, dont make people stick with hecknoob time weapons there, 160 locks should be lowered to 150.
    • Only Asp of Titaniush, Cane of Esa and Shield of Zset are level locked.

    Creation bows and 2hb staffs … slooooooow, veeeery sloooow. I doubt anyone will ever use them, at last st lower levels. They should be 1,5/1,5, maybe 2/2 if they really want them to be slow but 3/3 really kills the idea. Why would i ever use 3/3 weapon that buffs nuke dmg a bit if i could use 1 or even 2 1/1 weapons?
    • I basically agree with you. The design intent though is that the construct empowerment buffs, which work with any of the creation weapons or quest staves (but not other weapons) and the ability to use the base nuke line will be incentive enough to go with creations. It wouldn't surprise me though if they were very rarely used until TL4 at minimum though. I am also really unhappy with the attack/recharge on the bows.

    How fast are shields, i cant see their attack/recharge.
    • 1/8

    Is dmg debuff locked somehow or it can be spammed?
    • Spammable, but brutal nano-cost and the debuff is followed by a 20 second immunity on the target. So you can debuff lots of targets if you're willing to spend the nano, but can't debuff any one target more than 1/3 the time.

    Zset shield looks bad, the difference between it and classic red shield is way to small.
    • Err, yeah, I agree .

      Kintaii Edit: Stuff was changed with the Shield of Zset right before we pushed out the document yesterday. No promises, but I'd be surprised if we didn't tweak it a little further along - Again, numbers are malleable and easily changed. So we'll probably take another look later. =)

    No creation arrows with special debuffs? Why fling shot reqs if we can't use it (pointless IP sink)? Or can we?
    • Good question. I'm assuming we can use fling shot, but will need to get that clarified.

    Why on earth they have to be 100% weapon + 25% TS? They should have stayed at 80% nano skill (MC makes more sense then TS) + 20% weapon skill (except bows, they are fine with weapon skill as a main). Also, what's the deal with "unique" flag on 1hb sticks?
    • 100% weapon +25% TS is so that they will work with perk actions that require a specific weapon to be wielded (Ranger, Blunt Mastery, etc). EDIT (JustinSane4): Genele confirmed that the unique flag has been removed from the 1hb creation staves, so they can be dual-wielded (if you can hit the 1,290 Multi-Melee).

      Kintaii Edit: Unique flag may be removed in the next version of the doc - Was speaking with Genele about it and we'll need to decide exactly what we want to do there.

    60 seconds cooldown is seriously wrong, 15 sec should do.
    • This was an intentional design decision. FC wants killing our pets to be a viable strategy, so if we can't keep it alive for 60 seconds we'll be petless until the minute is up. However, our pets are being re-designed to have actual defenses, and our heal pet will have nearly doc level healing on itself and our other pets, so we should be pretty able to keep our pet alive.

      Kintaii Edit: I should note on this one that, assuming your pet is already out, then your opponent effectively has to kill *two* of a pet within 60 seconds, not just one. There's a 60s cooldown on the nanocast - Not on your pet dying. So, assuming that you didn't just cast the thing five seconds before it croaks (and if it does we aren't exactly doing our job properly :P) it's not quite as dire as it might sound.

    2500 nano skills for end game pet? Hell no, not with 0 nano skill gain. 2300 reqs are fine enough (think of them bow users who will use mostly weapon based armor - you don't need countless whines about gear swap like you had from engies, now, do you).
    • My understanding is that it's supposed to be tough to cast, particularly for weapon focused MPs (and I suspect if the reqs were lowered the pet's power would be also). The gear swap whines are a good point though. I guess we'll see on that one.

      Kintaii Edit: Also remember that there's itemization still to come, and Genele and I have already started talking about how we want to alter the various armour sets, equipment, and stat benefits for the various professions. We want to make it to where people don't have to swap as much in the future to utilize their toolset to its fullest. This *doesn't* mean that you'll reach a point at end-game where you'll be able to do everything at once; we're trying to add more diversity and choice, not remove it. ;P But you're a pet class - You should be able to cast your pets without having to jump through flaming hoops of death. :P

    3/3 for the creation bow is way toooooooooooo much and make it useless for the ip cost
    we have a lot of bow spec attack support (close to +400 with this bow and the Masterpiece Ancient Manual Aiming Aid) but only albtraum special arrows at TL7 (and pvp only) ? creation arrows would have been great (pve and pvp).
    If we want to try the bow setup we have to ip bow+fling+bowspec+rangeinit, all dark blue skills, all that for that ? :/
    • Erm, yeah, that's gonna be an IP intensive option. We're hoping for additional special arrows to be added in itemization. I agree, bow is way too slow.

    (on damage debuffs) Get rid of immunity (Hell, since when its more OP than init debuffs?) tweak up the duration to 15~20s and keep the impossibility to recast on same target while it doesnt wear off.
    • That was my first reaction also, but it doesn't look like that one is going to change .

    But I would prefer current doc Mochies/Infuses/Mastery/Teaching with current ingame Odin's. So bow AS setups (if they survive) will not cry about hotswaps to cast pets.
    • I'm pretty sure that would just result in all our our endgame nanos having their casting reqs increased by 120. Pretty sure they weren't intended to be easy for non-nano focused MPs to cast.

    Szet Nub shield huge, HUGE nerf. I would be lieing if I said I didnt love it, but ever I think the nerf was a bit too much; 500 AAD would be better. Since it lost reflects, I see no problem with the AAD; Also, bump a bit the snare/root resistance on Roundy shields: around 20~25% resistance on top ones and keep 10% on lowers (or keep all in 20~25% :P);
    • Completely agree, but don't know if we'll get it.

    OMG BOW!!! And with Fling Shot? ; But 3/3 is crap, make 1.5/1.5 or 2/2 and I'm ok with it; Also, any changes on Special Arrows? And... no Creation Special Arrows?
    • 3/3 is crap seems to be the consensus. I really doubt we'll get that changed without lower damage though. No creation special arrows, but we're hoping for new special arrows to be added later.

      Kintaii Edit: Spoke with Genele about this, and she's at least aware of the prevalent sentiment. One potential option on the plate is to lower their damage a bit while boosting their attack speed to 2/2. We'll see what happens there, if anything. =)

    Regarding Pet summoning, are MP still stuck in the cookie cutter 3 pets setup like "Attack Pet + Heal pet + Mezz/debuff pet
    • Yes - and there's nothing we as professionals can do to change this one, it's an FC decision. On the other hand, it will allow us to have stronger Attack Pets, Heal Pets and Mezz Pets than would have been balanced if we could mix and match.

    Self nanoskill buff for froob teaching/mastery is MISSING. make it 40/80 self.
    • We're not getting increased nano-skill buffing, the nano-skill buffs from Odin's are just being moved into infuses/mochams. So the teachings and masteries aren't improving.

    Are the construct buffs ("pet special buffs: 854") going to be usable with any creation weapon (like today) or only with the mesmerising staff, heal staff, and redfire staff? Are they still going to cancel on zone?
    • Will be usable with any creation weapon. Will have to check whether they will cancel on zone - so far as I know, they won't.

      Kintaii Edit: We'll definitely look into the canceling on zone thing and see what we can do about fixing it.

    Our def rating. Effectively 60 less than with SS going. Without using a shield, around 3.2k-3.3k. Still completely alpha-able. Is the damage to pet going to be permanent or be more like an emergency nano. If the latter, 20% dtp is pitiful against alphas. Also if it's an emergency nano, we won't have to target our pets to use it right? "Damage to pet multiplier: 100"...ouch. I can still see us having an issue with alphas, though 2s attack times on a lot of perks and a much improved heal pet may be the saving grace. Also the pet based -aao debuff.
    • The damage to pet nano is going to be permanent. We will have access to a DtP perkline, but almost nothing other than its existence is known about that one yet. The damage to pet multiplier just means that it will hit our pet for one point of damage for each one point of damage diverted to us (it's a percentage).

    The pet DoT resist survives rebalancing...? Joke?
    • It's a pet and MP resist now . It buffs us also.

    To sum up my main criticisms, I'm unhappy with the extremely severe cooldowns on a lot of our debuffs.
    • FC appears pretty committed to that design model, so I wouldn't bet on it changing.

    User: Specialization: & Fourth on a lvl 40 Nuke, why? Both lines have 8 nukes, it should be easy to bring them into line with the specializers.
    • Good question, will ask why all alpha and finishing nukes require Spec 4.

      Kintaii Edit: Rampant copy/pasting error. Will be fixed with the next release of the doc. =)

    (continued next post)

  3. #3
    I'm just glad my brother is a Nanomage, as I worry about our Atrox MP friends here.

    Also: Good thing no one does Mordeth raids anymore.

    Also also: Since they've let Advents fly in SL with Parrot, I was kinda wondering if they'd let MP do it with Quantum Wings.
    • Atrox MP is going to be tough to pull off, it really will. Agreed on point two, that and a few other raids (IS, Ice Golem, Right/Left Hand, Inf Garden Key pocket bosses, HI) will be getting a lot tougher with NSD up all the time rather than half the time... but I think that's largely FC's point.

      Already asked on QW doing something in SL. No go.

      Kintaii Edit: Also, for the record, Advies can't fly in SL either - No one can (save us dev/gm/ark-types 'cause we have hax). This is for a VERY GOOD REASON, that reason being that the SL zones weren't *made* for flying. Like, in the *slightest*. There's weird geometry, missing collision, and all sorts of other really, really weird stuff out there that could cause a lot of folks a lot of headaches if someone were to get stuck in it. To *let* people fly in SL we would, quite literally, have to rebuild the entire thing from scratch - There's so many issues that it'd be impossible to track them all down to fix them. And... yeah, that also ain't happening any time soon. ;P

      So yeah - This is one that we really just can't do for technical reasons. Sorry.

    Regarding pet, I hope its HP will get adjusted especially Mezz pet, their are currently too squishy. and i hope their calms are fix so they land better.
    • We've gotten confirmation that heal pets will likely be roughly as tough as our attack pets. I'm quite hopeful that mezz pets will be vastly less squishy. As far as the calms landing, it's likely (and this is speculation on my part) that they will land better than they do now if empowered construct 3 is running.

      Kintaii Edit: Aye, all three will have roughly the same health values, and the mezz pet will definitely be given the strength to ensure its nano lands. =)

    Umm, whats that User: Cyberdec &7 req on base nukes?
    Does it mean that MPs have to wear Healing Staff of Alcofribas Nasier or Aggressive Staff of Julian Redfire to cast those nukes or is it just some copy/paste error?
    • Basically, it means you need to being using a creation weapon or quest staff. Creation Bows, 1hb and 2hb staves all set Cyberdeck to 7, base nukes, empowered construct buffs and creation shields require Cyberdeck 7.

    Can different shields be equipped together (ie Red Shield + Blue Shield/Red Shield + Yellow Shield)?
    • They are all left hand only, so no.

    Considering that if the Asp and co can be equipped together does the damage of the 2hb and Bow creation weapons come even close to the damage of dual Asp, because that is what it means to sacrifice your evades for damage. 2hb and Bow should then be comparable with dual 1hb weapon damage (weapon as in the ones doing actual damage)?
    • Edit: Genele has clarified that the Asp of Titaniush will not be unique, and so can be dual-wielded. Note that either Bow (fling shot, bow special attack) or a 1hb dual wield setup (multi-melee) are going to be more IP intensive, so if they do a bit more damage than 2hb that's probably only fair. Don't underestimate the nano-damage modifier on the 2hb staves though - that could make a real DPS difference with our new nukes.

    Seeing the slower rate of hits from creation weapons it makes the chance to Proc lower than for all other professions, is this as intended or would it be better to maybe then lower the damage of the weapons in sacrifice of having them faster but able to proc at least?
    • We're checking on that exact question for the bows. We'll have to see what the Devs decide there. For 1hb and 2hb it should be possible to hit 1/1 at endgame, but for 2hb it will take full agg.

    Tbh, I expected a big increase in survivability, which we didn't get. More healing ok, but with removal of SoZ and blockers we are actually squishier than before in PvP.

    I expected at least some reason for teams to choose us in PvM. This has actually been reversed imo. If we don't do a hideous amount of damage with our pets, I still can't see why we should be picked. Even the situational use of NSD is gone now.
    • I agree that no MP will have the survivability of an SoZ MP now (and I'm not happy about that either). Every other MP though should have better survivability due to the heals, DtP and evade nano improvements. We'll take more damage with spec blockers gone, granted, but our healing will be far better (looks like it will be more than enough to compensate). Anyway I think that's how it's supposed to work - if we hit test and it isn't so, hopefully we'll be able to get a few things adjusted.

      As to our team-ability, please wait and see how the perk review goes. Right now (that is the latest perk doc) we've got about twice the team nano regeneration of any other profession and I'd expect we'll get team invites because of it. If that changes, I agree. Theoretically our DD looks good with the new nukes, but as soon as you do some calcs about how much casting you can keep up, it's really not that much (against a zero AC target, it actually isn't much better than MIMQ now). The nano-costs prevent the new nuke numbers from making us a credible DD profession, and we may end up worse-off considering the creation weapons won't have the DD of the best non-creation weapons, but using a non-creation weapon will lock out the best DD nuke line. So like you said, absent massive pet DD, there's not much reason to invite an MP into a team - unless we are top of the heap in nano-regeneration. But right now we are on the top of that pile, so as long as that stays, I think we'll have a function in team play .

  4. #4
    Hahahaha double-AS Tigress on Sheet3

    Good one!
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  5. #5
    Nice nsd fix . Its about time they got a better evade nano. CC reducers are very welcomed.
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  6. #6
    Great... you guys really don't want froobs to raid HI anymore! Thanks a lot! Both Engi blinds and NSD are as good as essential there. And you screwed both of them. 7 sec NSD is a joke, it's a pvp value, not pvm. And if there is multiple MP's they should be able to keep a target NSD'd full time. It's a valuable tool on froob raids and MP's are wanted there, maybe you should look there instead of screwing everybody over...
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  7. #7
    Let's start the thread with CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and not ranting, please.
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  8. #8
    Unfortunately, froob balance isn't something FC is able to sacrifice TL7 balance to support. I agree though, that's going to hurt. On the upside, froob MPs will have better healing and better creation weapons along with damage debuffs that do not over-write crat initiative debuffs, so I think there will still be a place for them in froob raid forces - even if those raid forces will be a bit more limited in the targets they can handle.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Edta View Post
    Great... you guys really don't want froobs to raid HI anymore! Thanks a lot! Both Engi blinds and NSD are as good as essential there. And you screwed both of them. 7 sec NSD is a joke, it's a pvp value, not pvm. And if there is multiple MP's they should be able to keep a target NSD'd full time. It's a valuable tool on froob raids and MP's are wanted there, maybe you should look there instead of screwing everybody over...
    Before you get your panties in a twist, remember pvm is being modified; anything could happen. Also as much as I'd hate to say it, but this isn't balanced around froobs, and if you can't be creative against another layer of problems and simply figure it out, we're not going to take the effort to fit in the adjustments for high level froobs.
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  10. #10
    I'd gone into this wanting at the very very least to see MP healpet dramatically improved, and I like what I see in this document, especially with the healing 'double' when the target is a pet. We won't have a lot of problems with keeping our pets standing. This makes Damage to Pet a much more viable option for us.

  11. #11
    Well, froobs are part of the game, whether you like it or not. You can't just ignore part of the game because that's an easy solution.
    Besides froobs actually have big scale challenging raids. Also froobs are quite balanced. FC could learn from that and make the game fun for paybies as well.

    I don't see why NSD needs such a nerf in pvm. As I understand in the paid pvm world NSD is barely used at all because it's not needed. So then there is 2 places where NSD is used currently: pvp and froob pvm. For pvp I can understand a short duration and an immunity. For pvm it just becomes even more useless. 7 seconds is nothing in pvm unless you can predict when a boss is going to nuke or cast harmful effects. What happened to the different effect in pvp vs pvm idea some dev mentioned once?

    Sorry for the ranting, but I'm seriously hurt by this. I hope I sound a bit more constructive this time.
    Last edited by Edta; Mar 22nd, 2011 at 03:15:36.
    Edta 200 NT, froob , Setup, General of NEPA, Raid Leader of TLfiveplus (Froob Raids)
    Neutral For Life, AO For Ever!
    Please, let Clan and Omni return to Neutral Clan/Omni Resignation forms!

  12. #12
    What a silence

    Let's break it!!

    I like it, even cause u called NSD/ENSD nerfed, i'll call em enhanced: 100% nr vs 160% for NSD and 3sec cooldown and 90% nr check for ENSD.

    So pratically no nerfs, and lot of lub!

    Lubchild! <3

    Umh maybe for pvm, an old skool NSD with 'Target: m0nster!'
    Last edited by Drakeep; Mar 22nd, 2011 at 03:13:57.

  13. #13
    About the Damage-to-Pet thing: First I'll say I'm glad something like this made it into game for MPs but my question is does this line only affect the attack pets health? Or is there an order? What's the story?

  14. #14
    its like a pastel nightmare! oh god my eyes are burning!!

    but I think the changes look nice...

    I see an awful lot of active casting... seems like it might be painful to juggle cooldowns every 10-20 seconds for multiple nano lines... but a good step i think.

    has anyone told us how cooldowns will be visually indicated to the player?
    Tir Muffin Co-op : Free muffin lovin' for all teh clanners

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nubbs View Post
    has anyone told us how cooldowns will be visually indicated to the player?
    Cooldowns are, by effect, already ingame, with decent visualization. See the doctor nano program "Improved Complete Healing" for an example.
    If you haven't seen it: What happens is that all nanos in a cooldown are "greyed out", and depending on your personal settings, countdown progress will be visually represented with a timer & gradual de-graying of each affected icon.
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  16. #16
    Hmm I was thinking it would be about like that...Hopefully all the bugs that currently grey out all nanos from time to time get magically cleared up.
    Tir Muffin Co-op : Free muffin lovin' for all teh clanners

  17. #17


    Omg omg,
    i'll roll an mp and i'll call it kintaiiiii

  18. #18
    I have only one problem atm: NSD in PvM... Give us 1min duration in PvM and I'll not cry about dominates loss.

    EDIT: WTF?!!!!! We lost pet init buffs?!!! Now they are back to slowpoke spot? :x

    EDIT2: Now we are NT nemesis at least

    Btw, ever with all those unneeded/undeserved nerfs, I liked the nanodoc. (Calced a bit of new bow creation AR, and it would be around 2.8k at end lvl, good improvement, but not enought to hit **** )
    Last edited by lainbr; Mar 22nd, 2011 at 04:45:31.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lainbr View Post
    EDIT: WTF?!!!!! We lost pet init buffs?!!! Now they are back to slowpoke spot? :x
    All pets are getting reworked, their current stats will not be their end stats.
    "A whole new place to run around for ages in then die suddenly without warning."

    "I know who coded pet pathing... and when I see him I say "/follow" and I start waling in to walls :P"

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  20. #20
    I'll be honest. I skipped right to "Notum Scourge" pet and squee'd. I've been wanting that model as a pet since 2003.

    That aside, the changes are all very agreeable to me. A good deal of quality-of-life changes, more interesting casting mechanics, and I can finally be proud of being a staff MP.

    The NSD changes will take a bit of getting used to, but I don't feel I'm in a place to comment without playing it for myself. I'm sad to see Curse of Chronos go rather than be updated to work in today's game. Sacrificial Shielding, however...good riddance.

    Oh, whatever happened to getting different debuff pets instead of a strict mez?

    Edit: The new pet's gonna be the same scale as TNH right? Right?!
    Last edited by Vayde; Mar 22nd, 2011 at 07:24:35.

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