Thread: MP Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #601
    Btw, it would be very nice if when QW when used in sl duplicated the effect the hoverboard has there, ie putting us in a not able to fight mode with a nice rs boost.
    Dosen't seem op to me at least
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  2. #602
    I dont think they took that modifier off. QW has always disallowed u to fight.
    Metafly7 220/30/70 "E"

    Advfly7 170/19/42 "E"


    Proud member of ~Spirit~ Rubi-Ka Atlantean

    Anarchy proves this quote wrong: "War would end if the dead could return." ~ Stanley Baldwin

  3. #603
    As i read perk doc again we will get more %nanodmg mod. Right now we have around 15-20% , this will go up to 30-40 i think. Also perk for it. So i think nukes will be cool dmg both pvm and pvp.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Tutyimutyi View Post
    As i read perk doc again we will get more %nanodmg mod. Right now we have around 15-20% , this will go up to 30-40 i think. Also perk for it. So i think nukes will be cool dmg both pvm and pvp.
    If they keep Trance half powerfull as it in current perk doc, we gonna do helluva nuke dd.

    BUT I'd preffer be a debuffer. I don't wanna be a NT with pets. I wanna be a MP!
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by Metafly7 View Post
    I dont think they took that modifier off. QW has always disallowed u to fight.
    My point is that it still does nothing in sl.
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  6. #606
    I dont understand all this talk about mp's loosing their debuffing capabilities. Did anyone other then me notice that we got a couple less debuffs, but some of them are slapped together with the other ones? I'd rather cast 3 landing debuffs in 10 seconds, then spend a whole minute trying land 7-10 casts on a single mob just so i can solo it without worrying about a death spiral.

    Granted, I don't like the idea of being a NT with pets so much either... but I also don't see us being too near that mark yet. After all, NT's don't get nearly as many comparable customizable options we do even in our current state.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  7. #607
    I agree Bubbacrush. Personally i didnt use many of our debuff nanos. 3 dmg debuff, maybe nsd was the most common. What else debuff we had btw? Nothing. 3 debuffs, and mostly i landed all 3 then used SS when i went solo. So i dont count mps at all as "heavy debuffers" , yea we had unique debuffs, we still keep them just a bit modified.

    We are the best nanoprof. If we focus on nano skills, we get higher than NTs even. And we had the crappiest nuke! Crat can nuke 9k with proc!!! So im realy happy we get what we deserve: badass nukes. Maybe we got a bit more lines than we needed, maybe 1 will be removed later (imo at least, based on doc, seems we can nuke somebody down to ~40-50% in 5 secs) but still, huge nukes. /me happy. We are not NTs, we cant spam them too much, but finally nukes will be important part of our toolset.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Tutyimutyi View Post
    I agree Bubbacrush. Personally i didnt use many of our debuff nanos. 3 dmg debuff, maybe nsd was the most common. What else debuff we had btw? Nothing. 3 debuffs, and mostly i landed all 3 then used SS when i went solo. So i dont count mps at all as "heavy debuffers" , yea we had unique debuffs, we still keep them just a bit modified.

    We are the best nanoprof. If we focus on nano skills, we get higher than NTs even. And we had the crappiest nuke! Crat can nuke 9k with proc!!! So im realy happy we get what we deserve: badass nukes. Maybe we got a bit more lines than we needed, maybe 1 will be removed later (imo at least, based on doc, seems we can nuke somebody down to ~40-50% in 5 secs) but still, huge nukes. /me happy. We are not NTs, we cant spam them too much, but finally nukes will be important part of our toolset.
    Its true that we dont have many diferent debuffs. But, at least me, use those debuffs a lot.

    Btw, I just see ****loads of MPs whinning about unnability to solo a mob while I solo it. Reason: DD debuff. Most thinks I solo I use DD debuff to be capable to solo. Most raids w/o a crat is hard, but if the MP DD debuff, it becomes much less hard. And players dont know it. Also the MPs dont know it!

    AND NOW! They have 20s immunity and I'll go splash. AND NOW! We are far more useless than before in DD mitigation. Period.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  9. #609
    So I'll start this by saying that I do think that 100% up-time debuffs would be better - and that I think that MPs should have at least some base amount of 100% damage debuff, for example. I think that there are some really yucky relative balance issues with the new debuffs too - and that they should be changed. But....


    1) at present, the Damage Debuffs are in the same line as the Crat init debuffs, which ends up meaning that in larger encounters, the MP debuffs aren't used. Compared to the present situation, the new damage debuffs will in fact be more powerful than before in most situations... because they'll be used and have an effect at all. Yes, there are situations where there isn't a Crat available at the moment... but they tend to be fairly rare - as most raids will make sure that they have a crat, if at all possible.

    2) there are ways in which the new Damage/Nanodamage Debuffs can be used effectively. For example, after spike damage has landed on the tank, using these may give healers a period of low damage, during which they can heal the tank back up again. For such uses, the higher powered debuffs are actually better than the old ones...

    3) In periods, where the healers are running out of nano (going to happen a lot more looking at the nanocosts), having periods during which they need to heal a lot less and can thus manage their nano, will be beneficial. Especially, if that period of low damage bridges them over until the next nano heal comes in (often from the MP too).

    4) In situations where more than one mob is hitting the tank, then the damage debuff can be applied in order to different mobs - or can be used for a short period on several mobs. This does spread the damage debuff power.


    It's not that these debuffs will be useless. There will doubtless be situations where they can be very powerful indeed. We may have to alter our play-styles a bit in order to get the best out of them. But we will be able to get something out of them, especially if (as Justin suggests) FC are open to making some changes to mobs as part of the balance process.

    I don't like the new damage debuffs and I think that there should have been separate PvP and PvM effects, which would have made balancing them a great deal easier. But there will be strong uses for the new ones either way.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Apr 16th, 2011 at 08:47:56.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  10. #610
    One thing to note is that our current healing per second (with Soothing Spirits 10 perked) is 232.5. From the last perk document released, a creation MP with Soothing Spirits 10 and Ancient Knowledge 10 perked will have 1,182.5 hps for a gain of 950 hps. Our top damage debuffs now debuff a total of 920 damage. Assuming a single dual wielding 1/1 mob (such as SL MP pets), which hits 40 times per minute, and with AR sufficient to hit every time, that would be a total incoming damage reduction per second of -613.3. So the healing should make up for the damage debuff nerf.

    IMHO it won't make up for the damage mitigation of the SoZ nerf as well though, and I'm pretty anxious to see how well we solo after these changes.

  11. #611
    Agreed on some points. These durations could use some duration love, definitely. Splitting the lines for PVP/PVM too should show a dramatic difference in durations as well. I don't suppose there was a coding reason why they were as short as they are, but who knows.

    All in all, I think in the end we will perform at least a little better. That's just an at-a-glance appraisal. I don't mind too terribly to evolve my playstyle a bit (considering well have no choice) in order to come closer to a much more efficient use of our 'proposed' shinies. Overall, there is still the proverbial big picture I am still looking to see if all the puzzle pieces fit the way I hope they do. Hope. I am using that word so much now, its been starting to feel scary for the past 6 months. I think all in all, the timeliness is whats hurting my opinion of our situation more then the actual nerfs. On a long enough timeline, I am certain everything will work out fine.. but who has time to wait for this when I can get smoother gameplay in other, similarly ancient games.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Agreed on some points. These durations could use some duration love, definitely. Splitting the lines for PVP/PVM too should show a dramatic difference in durations as well. I don't suppose there was a coding reason why they were as short as they are, but who knows.
    .
    This. 7 seconds might be enough in PvP, but in PvM that is nothing, when you whack on single mobs for 15 mins in some encounters...

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by Tutyimutyi View Post
    As i read perk doc again we will get more %nanodmg mod. Right now we have around 15-20% , this will go up to 30-40 i think. Also perk for it. So i think nukes will be cool dmg both pvm and pvp.
    If the cap rules don't change, we won't be doing any special damage at PvP.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  14. #614
    1 thing i didnt hear about yet. Old dmg debuffs are instacast, and have 2 and 2.1 sec recharge. New debuff will be insta and 1 sec recharge. So that means, while you landed 1 old dmg deubff, you can land 4 from new (well, you must be fast, but possible.) So this doesnt count as HUGE help? If something goes wrong on raid and tank get trained you can spam debuff on all mobs in pretty short time. Tho, i may try to use the nano shared, debuff half of the blob, and 10 sec later the other half. Anyway, spamming will be much faster. Only prob is the nanocost tho.

    I would like to know how many mobs you solo at the same time which hits 2-4k static. Because this nano will debuff lots of mobs', even inf mobs' dmg to zero. So you wont get hitted at all by that mob for 1/3 of the time. Also you get new tank pet, taunt proc for it, cool healpet. You wont need to tank that much than now.

  15. #615
    Yup, this was what I meant when I said:

    4) In situations where more than one mob is hitting the tank, then the damage debuff can be applied in order to different mobs - or can be used for a short period on several mobs. This does spread the damage debuff power.
    There are advantages to the new debuff... but on balance, the losses far outweigh the gains imho.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Apr 17th, 2011 at 20:02:50.
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  16. #616
    I'd think if the duration was upped to a nearly a minute in PVM and 8-10 seconds in PVP, and keep it down to 1 debuff.. that would make me more inclined to use them.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  17. #617
    All of our debuffs should have a "pvp" and a "pvm" version. One with huge debuff, but low duration and immunity after cast (as those in nanodoc); and the other with medium debuff, (not so) long duration and no immunity.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Tutyimutyi View Post
    1 thing i didnt hear about yet. Old dmg debuffs are instacast, and have 2 and 2.1 sec recharge. New debuff will be insta and 1 sec recharge. So that means, while you landed 1 old dmg deubff, you can land 4 from new (well, you must be fast, but possible.) So this doesnt count as HUGE help? If something goes wrong on raid and tank get trained you can spam debuff on all mobs in pretty short time. Tho, i may try to use the nano shared, debuff half of the blob, and 10 sec later the other half. Anyway, spamming will be much faster. Only prob is the nanocost tho.
    Our you could just team a soldier instead. Add guardian for emergencies.

  19. #619
    I'd rather have something I can bring to the table, as opposed to excusing my lack of it by teaming with some other prof to camouflage the problem.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    Our you could just team a soldier instead. Add guardian for emergencies.
    THIS.

    MPs should have a medium DD debuff AURA! AURA!!! We don't want to cast same debuffs 5 times on 5 different targets, when soldiers can bring similar benefits simply standing and having their reflects up. I agree that MPs are more complex profession than soldiers for sure, but a medium DD debuff aura and a higher DD debuff nano (low duration, for emergencies) would do the trick a lot better than what we have now.
    220/30 Lordlawrence
    200/2x Pampero
    Ever wondered what's like making an OP toon? 30/3 Forum
    25/3 Killergoa

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