Thread: MP Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #381
    I've seen more than a few soldiers go down to low triple digits when I hit them with all 3 debuffs nowadays, I imagine a lot of soldiers would wind up nerfed silly if I hit them with a 2.5k-3k debuff now.

    And yes, MAs when they get crits can break through, though how much damage they get past depends on the MA setup.

  2. #382
    I can see loads of soldiers and fixers shouting "MPS ARE OP"after rebalance. Like everybody said in LE launch. I'm praying for FC do not forget us again.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  3. #383
    Aye, it tends to be a feature of the MP design, that immediately after major changes like SL, LE etc... MPs tend to be pretty strong and our tool-set tends to combine really well for a period of time.

    The thing to watch for though... is that with both SL and LE, the MP stayed really good for about 9 months to a year and then other stuff catches up and overtakes, and the relative balance starts to slip - and because of the way the MP works, we tend to lose ground very quickly.

    It's one of the great difficulties of the MP.... all the parts need to work well together... and if only one part slips a bit too much, then the whole thing can come unstuck.

    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremTech View Post
    It's one of the great difficulties of the MP.... all the parts need to work well together... and if only one part slips a bit too much, then the whole thing can come unstuck.
    X
    QFT

    Also, maybe we should have huge changes/expansions each year!
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  5. #385
    The problem was every expansion seemed to forget about the core toolset and expand on something completely different and new, and later expansions would do the same, so instead of building on new core tools, we have a bunch of not-well-developed or caught up tools.

    If we'd gotten new and updated pets with every expansion, for instance, with better AR this would likely not be as much of a problem, or updated debuffs, etc.

  6. #386
    I agree Xtrem. Hard to balance an MP, and if you focus on 1 thing, you lose other important parts.

    The Asp of Titaniush realy gonna be 1/8? And new mezz pet nano will use 10 sec mezz on other pets and stun on everything else?

    Tho new weps still too slow. 2/2 for weps? As a "support" prof it shouldnt be faster? Only agents have such low speed for reason.

    Seems dmg debuff is 10 secs long then 20 secs resist time. Means we can keep up the nano 1/3 of the fighting time. Sounds pretty decent if you can keep up with the nano.

    Still im afraid even with the 120% att skill we will be too low on AR. We can get ~1,8k 1hb or so? Static, with balanced setup. (tell me if im wrong, never played 1hb on 220) and around 2,6k TS which means : 1,8k+0,5k=2,3k AR which is pretty low imo. With such a low speed, we wont hit the targets so often. Docs has around same AR? Then us, and who is next in the line? Maybe engis? I never had 220 engi, but i think they got around 2,7k or so AR.
    I think this should be fixed somehow.

    - we cant buff any attack skills
    - all ranged and melee skills dark blue
    - (im not sure tho) but i think highest we can spend on attack skills is top 15 points / sl lvl.

    So in all we are very low on attack skills, which at 1 point of view doesnt matter, if our tool set made for this. But, AR is still very important, hitting/perking target still exist. Champion perks, ranger perks (and all other wep perks) based on AR. We have problems using them even in pvm, not to mention pvp where they are totally resisted. Cant even perk docs.

    Only i found it as a problem?

  7. #387
    Something's missing from that document.. Ah yeah MP's need a Slayerdroid Tranceferance like nano, I'd love to be a floating meatball

  8. #388
    The asp will be 2/2 like the others, that was an error in the doc that has been corrected. I don't expect we'll see them sped up past 2/2, though that would be nice. 1hb perks probably will not land in PvP but should land in PvM. Bow perks may land in PvP on low evade setups/professions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tutyimutyi View Post
    I agree Xtrem. Hard to balance an MP, and if you focus on 1 thing, you lose other important parts.

    The Asp of Titaniush realy gonna be 1/8? And new mezz pet nano will use 10 sec mezz on other pets and stun on everything else?

    Tho new weps still too slow. 2/2 for weps? As a "support" prof it shouldnt be faster? Only agents have such low speed for reason.

    Seems dmg debuff is 10 secs long then 20 secs resist time. Means we can keep up the nano 1/3 of the fighting time. Sounds pretty decent if you can keep up with the nano.

    Still im afraid even with the 120% att skill we will be too low on AR. We can get ~1,8k 1hb or so? Static, with balanced setup. (tell me if im wrong, never played 1hb on 220) and around 2,6k TS which means : 1,8k+0,5k=2,3k AR which is pretty low imo. With such a low speed, we wont hit the targets so often. Docs has around same AR? Then us, and who is next in the line? Maybe engis? I never had 220 engi, but i think they got around 2,7k or so AR.
    I think this should be fixed somehow.

    - we cant buff any attack skills
    - all ranged and melee skills dark blue
    - (im not sure tho) but i think highest we can spend on attack skills is top 15 points / sl lvl.

    So in all we are very low on attack skills, which at 1 point of view doesnt matter, if our tool set made for this. But, AR is still very important, hitting/perking target still exist. Champion perks, ranger perks (and all other wep perks) based on AR. We have problems using them even in pvm, not to mention pvp where they are totally resisted. Cant even perk docs.

    Only i found it as a problem?

  9. #389
    2/2 would work IF they use nanoinit wich i think would be a nice idea
    Don't you just hate this kind of ppl
    http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/w...rouscranus.htm

  10. #390
    Fling shot recharge = [Wep Attack time (in seconds) x 16] - Fling shot skill/100

    for a 3/3 weapon 4200 fling skill is needed for cap recharge 6s, for a 2/2 -> 2600 skill needed
    for tigress -> 1960

    Leduc69 Soli MP 220/30
    Duckz Trox FIX 220/30
    Duczor Opi MA 220/25
    Theducman Nano NT 165/23
    Lazzay Soli CRAT 150/20
    Ducshot Trox TRAD 141


    Chest-kicker since 2007 - http://thespartans.org

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Leduc69 View Post
    Fling shot recharge = [Wep Attack time (in seconds) x 16] - Fling shot skill/100

    for a 3/3 weapon 4200 fling skill is needed for cap recharge 6s, for a 2/2 -> 2600 skill needed
    for tigress -> 1960
    And in 100% of cases -> MPs have less than 1.2k Fling Shot skill
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  12. #392
    So... NT doc is out and they can also, practically, chain-calm our pets.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  13. #393
    Sadly no, even bow perks get resisted by doc sometimes. AS MP (like me) got around 1,8k bow skills self, even with the 20% TS , it would be 2,3k so around 2,6k AR in total with aao (forgot that last time tho). Yes we can perk docs and engis thats all. Waste of perks for coli/cola. Those perks may help to get a little better hit chance but thats all. Still 90% of time attack perks are not avaible for mps, i dont even bother trying them. And it fits even for TuF and Starfall perk lines. Only not twinked 220 can be perked with them. Everybody in top setup running with more def than we can perk even with MC based perks.

    Using AS but still got 2,5k MC which is not enough. How much we should have to be able to use our attack perks?

  14. #394
    Before rebalancing, you probably want an immensely and impossibly high level of total attack for trying to perk someone, regardless of the type of perk you're using. I think it broke 3k a while ago, might be up to 3.2k or so now for the amount of AR you want to have a hope of landing perks reliably, but I could be wrong. I'll check with the Soldier and Agents, etc, but on the whole, getting enough to perk someone would require at least another 1k boost in weaponskill or AAO.

    AFTER rebalancing, however, NR isn't getting backed up by AAD anymore, and when using perks that check nanoskills vs. NR, we should be seeing a LOT more lands than previously. Starfall should land a lot more reliably in pvm and pvp, so that's probably going to be one avenue. If Trance stays as it is that also has some perk attacks that check nanoskilsl vs. NR so you can use those as well.

    There's been cause for argument to make sure that the one DoT action in Ancient Knowledge be changed to nanoskills vs NR, because with an attack rating vs defense, it will have a much lower chance to land, whereas even with low skills for, say, bow focused MPs it'll still have a good chance to land if it's checking against NR instead of evades (and the gobs and gobs of AAD everyone has).

  15. #395
    Just quoting from the general perk doc here, for information:

    We are considering altering the way Attack and Defense checks are being
    modified. This is not finalized:

    o When Attack Modifier is used as attack skill, Add All Offense (AAO) is
    counted twice. This will no longer happen.

     Perks that have previously been easy to land because of this will
    have a lower defense check.

    o Add All Offense will only be applied to weapon skills and weapon
    specials.

     This affords support professions a higher chance of landing their
    perk specials as they rarely have large amounts of AAO

    o Add All Defense (AAD) will only be applied to Dodge, Duck and Evade.

     This allows support professions to receive a higher chance of
    landing their perk specials,
    X
    Xtremtech: MetaPhysicist currently resident on Test. (209 + 21 AI Levels).

    Various other test MPs of differing levels and builds available.

  16. #396
    Okies. I just read the NT nanodoc and... NTs gonna be the nano suppliers, not us. Also its clearly that they thought in NTs not just in present, but future cause end lvl nanos have a 3.4k max :3

    Why didnt we got this kind of love?

    P.s.: Our NT dot resist ended up being kindaaaaa awesome O.o
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  17. #397
    I'm still pretty hopeful on the nano supplier front. That huge 20k nano regain is single target and has a 2 minute cool down. Depending on how the perks are re-done it's possible we could top that for team nano regain.

  18. #398
    Btw, I'm happy but sad. Happy cause NT nanodoc seems nice... Sad cause its clearly that MPs/other proffs didnt got same attention as NTs.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  19. #399
    I'm not going to defend everything in our nano-document, as there were decisions made I don't at all agree with. But the developers did spend a lot of time and attention on it - what flaws it has aren't because of lack of effort on their part.

  20. #400
    I'm just frustrated. Very freaking frustrated :x
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

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