Thread: MP Nano Document Discussion Thread

  1. #701
    I consider them newer not in terms of age, but evolution. I consider it an almost zombie like outbreak. We used to have newbs that understood they were newbs. Now, we have newbs that think they play a toon to 60 and think they know everything, because some PL'd guy whos been playing for 6 months told them something that made their pants moist. Now, the outbreak has gone so far, that if one person says AMG NT'S PWNZ!LOLiwinlol666111!! and then we get a rush of triple noobs, who later become disenchanted with NT's because they are not as cool as they were impressed upon, only to jump on the next big thing for the same reasons. They do it out of reflex these days. Its what happens when you get enough people being loud about being stupid, sooner or later people start believing the stupid without the benefit of a little personal research and experience.

    Then these people go and post on balance forums, and then a quantum singularity opens up and swallows the smart people's will to fight.

    And then they call us bitter and jaded (tm).
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  2. #702
    Doesn't change the fact that NTs will be freakin' über, compared to us.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  3. #703
    I somehow doubt they wont be competition as stand ins for secondary healers, debuffers, or evaders. Nt's can tank something, big deal. We can tank things too. I guess if you feel that uberness is just a direct comparison of damage over utility, then I suppose i'll just disagree.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    I somehow doubt they wont be competition as stand ins for secondary healers, debuffers, or evaders. Nt's can tank something, big deal. We can tank things too. I guess if you feel that uberness is just a direct comparison of damage over utility, then I suppose i'll just disagree.
    We will lack the utility to compete with their damage. Not to mention they will have two very important utility functions too, calms and nano healing (that will be far superior to ours).

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountaingoat View Post
    We will lack the utility to compete with their damage. Not to mention they will have two very important utility functions too, calms and nano healing (that will be far superior to ours).
    Do you know this for a fact, or is this an assumption based upon unfinished updates and not even half done rebalance stuff?

    Nt's have better mezzes and nano healing currently, and so having them in the future only makes sense. Why the fuss on this? Did something change somewhere and I miss it? They got their ****e, and we have ours. I don't see a problem here.

    The only problem I do see, is the same doom and gloom regurtitation i've seen the past two years since this whole started. Do I think were in a fine position? Not so much. Do I care that NT's have better damage? Not so much.

    I just can't get excited anymore. I could blather on all day too about A > B or C < D, but I feel its a momentous waste of time. I am not trying to listen to any opinion based upon an unfinished rebalance project that hasn't hit live yet, and whom the developing staff still claims is far from completion, and WILL (not just might, but WILL) be altered again.. and again.. and again.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Do you know this for a fact, or is this an assumption based upon unfinished updates and not even half done rebalance stuff?
    Well, we do have SOMETHING to start from and it doesn't look good for now.

    Nt's have better mezzes and nano healing currently, and so having them in the future only makes sense. Why the fuss on this? Did something change somewhere and I miss it? They got their ****e, and we have ours. I don't see a problem here.
    Seems to me that everyone but you noticed that our "****e" is getting removed, nerfed, or rendered useless, while theirs is getting better, or at least not that much nerfed, when compared to everything else.

    I am not trying to listen to any opinion based upon an unfinished rebalance project that hasn't hit live yet, and whom the developing staff still claims is far from completion, and WILL (not just might, but WILL) be altered again.. and again.. and again.
    Well, if we keep quiet and keep it for ourselves, they might think that additional changes are not going to be needed.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Nt's have better mezzes and nano healing currently, and so having them in the future only makes sense. Why the fuss on this? Did something change somewhere and I miss it? They got their ****e, and we have ours. I don't see a problem here.
    Because Its suposed to be Rebalance, you know. But for some unknowm reason MPs, being the gimpest prof as they are, got nerfed; while some other (not so) op profession (NT) had a lot of significant bump, 0 nanos removed uttely and completely, and only 1 nerf.
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by lainbr View Post
    But for some unknowm reason MPs, being the gimpest prof as they are, got nerfed
    This made me laugh a little, seems all you do is whine about MPs being the nerfest prof ever, when they are far from it, we may not be on the top of the foodchain but we're far from the nerfest imo.
    RK
    Roxburry 220/30/70 Cratz0r
    Roxbury 220/25/70 Shadez0r
    Bolrn 220/27/70 Mpz0r
    Arrow83 220/27/70 Solz0r

  9. #709
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgly View Post
    This made me laugh a little, seems all you do is whine about MPs being the nerfest prof ever, when they are far from it, we may not be on the top of the foodchain but we're far from the nerfest imo.
    Prove it.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgly View Post
    This made me laugh a little, seems all you do is whine about MPs being the nerfest prof ever, when they are far from it, we may not be on the top of the foodchain but we're far from the nerfest imo.
    Name one prof, that at 220, is worse than MPs...

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by Camar View Post
    Name one prof, that at 220, is worse than MPs...
    I can bet he will say nanomage shade.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    I can bet he will say nanomage shade.
    a nanomage shade would thumb roll a bow mp
    Still here

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Prove it.
    Has anyone proved that MP's are, without a doubt, the most nerfed prof ever?
    It works both ways.
    I've heard some interesting information that makes me feel that there really is no nerfest prof ever.
    Last edited by Bubbacrush; Jul 17th, 2011 at 16:56:00.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post

    Well, if we keep quiet and keep it for ourselves, they might think that additional changes are not going to be needed.
    Keeping quiet and crying nerf every day need not be in the same mindset. I'm being far from quiet about this subject, as I have offered several ideas to developers here on this forum. Some of my ideas must have been considered, because the nuking system they have re-loaded seemed to be in line with the spirit of some of our previously posted wants.

    However, the need to be loud about this subject need not include me constantly whining about how I feel about something that is pure theory at this point. Like I said, I just can't get excited about it anymore. Things are going to progress on their own, with or without my input. I suppose I've just grown past all that.

    I've read the perk documents many times. Some nice things coming, and some things happened that I didn't expect. Whatever, that stuff was a couple of years ago. It's going to change. Fine. Let it change. Again, my excitement left the building a week after I read them.

    The Nano-document I felt was a nice start, but clearly it needs a bit more love for debuffs. Ok, cool. Kintaii and others have mentioned they are not done, and we are going to get a couple of shinies, and some reconsiderations will be made now that more of the bigger picture is falling into place. Cool. Great. I stopped being excited about it a few weeks later. All things will come in their due time.

    As for running around screaming doom and gloom? Utter waste of time. Can anyone here honestly read any of all these whines here, and in balance forum and truly be inspired by it? I certainly can't. I stopped reading it, because it hurts my soul to read that much rubbish-inspired verbal diarrhea. I just don't see the point of it all. Where I come from, being the loudest tends to mean you have the least to really share.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Cryfreman View Post
    a nanomage shade would thumb roll a bow mp
    If that actually happened, I would assume its because the MP in question had no idea WTF he/she was doing. I'd say it would fall way more on who's actually playing them.
    Last edited by Bubbacrush; Jul 17th, 2011 at 16:59:33.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Has anyone proved that MP's are, without a doubt, the most nerfed prof ever?
    Well, yes.

    The lowest damage potential, the second worst CC potential, the lowest defensive potential (unless you go with SoZ, which lowers the already low damage potential we have) speaks for itself.

    Also, our debuff abilities became nearly useless over time, so even this department doesn't cut it in anymore.

    Can you name something that is, in general, as "nerfest" as we are, please? Maybe I missed something.
    Renowned jester of the double AS Tigress

    MP in sneak eNSDed me and did about 20k damage in 10-12 seconds

  17. #717
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    And then they call us bitter and jaded (tm).
    I am bitter and jagged, they are right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Do you know this for a fact, or is this an assumption based upon unfinished updates and not even half done rebalance stuff?
    I am not crying only about rebalance. We already suck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Like I said, I just can't get excited about it anymore.
    Neither do I. ((

    In AO game terms of course, there are many ways to excitement.

    I don't think I have to point a recent thread of buglists. Where is the problem? Pets, they have not been able to make pets work in 10 years. Not that I would like them to look at it too much since from past experiences they have managed to break them more each time they addressed the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinSane4 View Post
    Madmax, I'm a bit confused by something: You refer to Dancingrage and me as gatekeepers and say that we "worked so hard to nerf weapon MPs". Huh? Where on earth are you getting this from? As it happens, you're mistaken on that - neither Dancingrage nor I have censored feedback from weapon MPs or failed to pass on their ideas and/or concerns to the devs - but I really would like to know why you've formed the opinion that you have. Has anything I've said indicate that I'm trying to get weapon using MPs nerfed?

    I think perhaps you over-estimate the influence professionals have. All we can do is pass on ideas and concerns - we can't control what the developers ultimately do. For the record, I'm not happy with our PvM debuffs, the difficulty pistol MPs will have reaching the nano-reqs for the top pet or weapon MPs' (particularly pistol MPs') lack of AR. I wanted Sacrificial Shielding modified rather than scrapped as well. Also didn't like SoZ getting functionally deleted. But I'm not a developer, and ultimately they choose what directions to take each profession.

    I'm still hoping we can get more Pistol support somewhere however, possibly in itemization. We'll see, and I'll keep trying - though I (and this is just my guess, based on publicly available info - hopefully a wrong guess) wouldn't bet heavily that we will.
    I am generalizing about all the professionals that we had. Any change that helped the weapon MPs has been an insult to most of them. Some of us might know things from the backstages that you don't. And you know those things can't be talked here.

    FC has two possibilities. Some itemization won't be enough, that would be just a waste of time. All the support options have to be worked on, that is the only way to get us to the +1000 AR that normal 220 weapon MPs, including 1hb and 1hb need. And all level ranges have to be looked up to equilibrate this evenly, not just giving a 220 item that might allow me to equip a pistol. But that means work and they have been too busy nerfing us and simplifying the profession to /pet attack and 123 nuking done...

    I don't overstimate the influence of professionals over time, they are an important part of how FC sees the MPs. But I might understimate them at a given time, that is why I just consider you as a placeholder. They fingered you to try to shut-up us about not having representation.

  18. #718
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Has anyone proved that MP's are, without a doubt, the most nerfed prof ever?
    Many times.

    Don't worry, I remember you from before I left the game. You treat these forums like your own personal soapbox, espousing your own ideas while putting down most everyone else's opinion (as we can see above, with your lovely verbal diarrhea comment...and on the last couple pages)

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbacrush View Post
    Has anyone proved that MP's are, without a doubt, the most nerfed prof ever?
    I saw many duels with skilled MPs. I did duelled with almost every profession in AO (trader missing, didnt found a trader to duel me). The average results:

    Vs Agents: Def agents? MP win. AR Agents? MP survive... 5 seconds. NR Agents? Balanced fight.
    Vs Advs: Non troxes? Balanced fight. Trox? MP lose.
    Vs Crats: eNSD landed? MP easy win. eNSD not landed? MP lose.
    Vs Docs: HP doc? Balanced fight. Def doc? May be 10 seconds, may be 5 minutes, but in the end the MP is dead.
    Vs Enfs: MP WTFPWND.
    Vs Engs: Petless eng? MP loses. With pets: MP raped in 5 seconds (or less).
    Vs Fixers: Non trox? Balanced fight. Non low hp setup? Balanced fight. Trox? MP lose. Low hp setup? MP lose.
    Vs Keepers: MP dies in 10 seconds.
    Vs MAs: MP dies after 5 hits.
    Vs NTs: MP dies always, may take 5 seconds, may take 20.
    Vs Shades: Non trox? Balanced fight. Trox? MP WTFPWND.
    Vs Soldier: Assaut Rifle? hmmm MP survive 15 seconds, a bit more if sit down and spam healpet. Smg ones? MP survive 1 whole minute, max.

    Now compare how many easy wins MPs have against how many certain lose MPs have. So you are still asking for proofs for "MP are the gimpest"?

    If yes, lets look at pvm:
    Ok damage; almost last in nano regen; 4th in healling; very restricted CC; useless debufs; AR low enough to not land perks on bosses; Very low defence (unless you are Zset, which drops your DD to botton below docs).

    Do you have doubts about MP being the gimpest? Dont you agree MPs should receive improvements, and not nerfs on rebalance?
    Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
    Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
    Proud veteran of Spartans

    To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
    Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.

    Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
    Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Esssch View Post
    Many times.

    Don't worry, I remember you from before I left the game. You treat these forums like your own personal soapbox, espousing your own ideas while putting down most everyone else's opinion (as we can see above, with your lovely verbal diarrhea comment...and on the last couple pages)
    Many times? Like when and where? Show me proof and back it up with facts and figures. Not stuff like "its self evident!" and "We always die v X prof!" because those are not facts. I don't even have all the facts. But, what I do know quite a large number of people who post also dont, but like to throw egos around like they do - like they got some sort of divine knowledge that were that bad off.

    Until then, expect me to ruffle the feathers of people who 'feel' that were somehow in some sort of proverbial gutter, because I don't experience 75% of what people complain about.
    Last edited by Bubbacrush; Jul 18th, 2011 at 04:47:31.
    Towerblock, 220/30/70 Engineer
    President of Steadfast

    And way too many alts...

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