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Thread: Rebalancing

  1. #1

    Rebalancing

    Was really omw to bed, when this caught my eye...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    After several weeks of chatting, discussing and debating with our Professionals on incoming rebalancing changes, we have now officially given the Pros free reign to discuss pertinent information regarding the new directions and initiatives of the Anarchy Online development team for The Great Rebalancing. At the moment we're letting the Professionals talk about the information they've received at their own leisure, with more detailed information coming from the team as things progress and become more solidified; keep watch on the posts of the Pros to learn more over the next few weeks. =)


    I don't have the time to comment on it just now since it's way into the night here, so here the news is for you to ponder over without any comments from me till some time tomorrow after work ...

    Please see if you can keep talk regarding the rebalancing efforts and concerns inside this thread in order to enhance visibility for everyone... Including FC


    The following is the info passed on from FC.

    --Doctors:

    Healing: Spreading out the amount of healing to balance the numbers across all level ranges.

    Cyberdeck: Potential non-offensive Doctor 'weaponry' which allows the Doctor to choose between maximum healing/debuff/nuking capabilities, or whether they wish to go fully-offense by choosing a weapon.

    Debuffs: Potential AoE debuffs.

    Nuking: Nuke lines will be extended and adjusted across all level ranges, including the introduction of new nukes. Malpractice will receive adjustments. :P

    Buffs: Potential creation of team-based versions of existing buffs (such as Team-Enhanced Deathless Blessing)



    Thought this would be nice to add here as well:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    For the most part I'm wanting to let the Professionals handle the dissemination of information with all of this, but there is one thing I want to chime in on, and something we've been a bit coy about overall in mentioning.

    When we talk about rebalancing, we do mean rebalancing. We mean a complete, ground-up look over all the numbers in game - How much AAO professions can receive, what their overall nano-costs are for buffing, how much IP they have to spend to cast their nanos, ect. ect. ect.

    When you guys see things like the perk docs, or receive information on the rebalancing, it's important to understand that we're not going to change one or two things - There are massive changes incoming to the overall balance of numbers that professions receive, to make them more viable across the board. What you may perceive as an issue with the announced changes will also more than likely be addressed as we go through and fix the overarching numbers spread for the entire game.

    There's more to The Great Rebalancing than just tweaking a couple of items/perks/nanos. A whole lot more.
    Last edited by Mekh; Jan 8th, 2010 at 00:00:14.
    Mekhdoc 220/27/70 Equip | Mekh 220/28/67 Equip | Shadesch 220/21/70 Equip
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  2. #2
    This looks good, any news on Embrace line?

  3. #3
    Heals - From that statement i assume they mean that they are redoing our heals to correspondent to the damage that is being taken at that lvl, mainly 100-175 i would assume. Possibly meaning passive healing as well instead of larger "bulk" heals?

    If they are making heals more passive I would be up for some auras. Low level healing ones that can stack with keeper ones. Higher lvl HD ones, team version that buffs a good amount of HD, and a smaller AoE version.

    *lower lvls get heals because HD is phailz @ that lvl.

    CyberDeck - I am up for seeing how this goes seeing how it is a alternative. Just lets not make it into cookie cutter. Is it like the fixer nano hud that we get at lower lvls and can lvl with us by Right clicking, with every XX lvls the mods are improved or is it another endgame item only, or is it going to be like NTs?

    AoE Debuffs - Get rdy for the whines? FC is balancing for team pvp so it makes sense, question is do we get new types of debuffs and how effective will they be/will the AoE be.

    Nukes - Another alternative. Nukes going to depend on cyberdeck or are they going to be seperate from it? Or is it going to depend on the nuke? Malp needs blue or green flames plz <3

    Buffs - We have everything team version but NR/HD/Nano inti buffs. Team BI would be OP so what current buffs are going to be made team?

    Edit: WOOO We get our Dot line C back from MPs
    Last edited by Kazeren; Jan 7th, 2010 at 05:24:57.

  4. #4
    --Doctors:

    Healing: Spreading out the amount of healing to balance the numbers across all level ranges.

    Cyberdeck: Potential non-offensive Doctor 'weaponry' which allows the Doctor to choose between maximum healing/debuff/nuking capabilities, or whether they wish to go fully-offense by choosing a weapon.

    Debuffs: Potential AoE debuffs.

    Nuking: Nuke lines will be extended and adjusted across all level ranges, including the introduction of new nukes. Malpractice will receive adjustments. :P

    Buffs: Potential creation of team-based versions of existing buffs (such as Team-Enhanced Deathless Blessing)

    ----------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------




    Healing:.


    Looks interesting. But i havent been lacking healpower on my doc at lower lvl.s Secret is to combine debuffs with heals and docs do you just fine. except when add comes. But thats not a docs job to fix that. Calmers need a job to and stay awake. (Talking in pvm terms here)

    Healing and defense must be high ql stuff for docs in pvp. If we are to use heals every 10 seconds and still find time to use dots and nukes in between. Both heals and dots/nukes need to be reliable.

    Healnerf. Just cant be implemented for docs atm. Considering what other professions are getting. Atleast not on TL7.



    Cyberdeck:


    Also sounds interesting. But if we still have 100% check on dots and nukes at endgame. Its useless. Twinked Endgame pvpers just have to much nr.

    I think FC should get a closer look at nanocost and resist for dots and nukes and compare them to our brother and sisters the crat and mp.


    Debuffs:


    Aoe debuffs sound really nice. But will yield an enormus whinecry from the others in AO.
    Not sure if its worth it. A good ubter is whats seperates a good doc from a bad one atm. So
    I can live without aoe debuffs.

    We need a debuff that cripples the offense or defense of someone. At present time they can just stand infront of us och blast away all they got. And run away when we start to build dmg.

    Ubt was nice but since most dmg dealing is done with perks and specials it has small use atm. Talking in pvp terms ofc.


    Nukes:


    Nukes: This really sounds interesting. And would make nanomage breed abit more fun and useful at low lvls.
    One of two things has to be done with nukes and dots though.

    1: Lower Nr check and time it takes to cast. But keep the nanocost.

    2: Lower nanocost and cast time by a large amount, but keep the nr check.



    Buffs:


    A passive defense of some sort would be welcome. Some stun resist nano to. Docs are the main target for everyone in pvp. We need a defense that is in contact with how pvp is fought atm.

    A good Team Nr aura the refreshes every 3min or so would make doc more interesting as a teammate in pvp to. Or something totally new. Nanodelta buffs would rock.




    To sum things up:


    At present time i think docs are doing just fine in pvm. Levling alts atm and almost every time people talk about doing hard inf missions they want a doc. which is good.

    At low lvls docs suffer more than anyone from the "im pocketing with my 220 enf and 220 doc and dont want a lowbie doc in team, i want dd". This issue will be dealt with when new graphics engine comes online. Im sure of it. Would be really unsmart to have lots of new players in ao that have nothing to kill becuse everyone is using pockets.

    At lower levels the doc performance is depending alot with whom youre teaming. A enf in medsuit is a world away from a enf in good armor. Team dmg and what other buffs your teamates give are more factors.

    At endgame these things also are a factor ofc. But level 220 doctors can easier chose with
    whom he wishes to team. And have figured out who are nice people to team and those that are not.

    I want to funcom to have some ingame time in Battlestation. Then they would maybe understand more about the docs main problems.
    Last edited by DrLithvium; Jan 7th, 2010 at 18:44:33.
    Drtheron B 220/30 Atrox Doc First AI30 atrox doc on RK1
    Stilithium B 220/12 Nanomage Doc PVP project


    Nttheron B 220/16 Atrox NT Ao easymode pvp is: on
    Lithvium B 220/13 Solitius Crat DD hoe project
    Zystem B 208/8 Nanomage Engineer Tradeskiller


    + A couple of alts in progress

  5. #5
    Looks fairly good.

    I hope they intend to spread the healing around by giving more healing to HoTs, Buffs, etc, and less to active healing. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to be a RonCo Rotisserie (set it and forget it), but I would like to have to push more than my single heal. Doc healing is very lopsided towards what single heal you cast (and sometimes team heal) while still keeping that ICH emergency button. Currently, with ICH and RoB I don't even use my BGH perks except for dire situations.
    The Fine Arts:
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    Xirayne: I couldn't care less about who is clueless or what the exact definition "real" pvp is in ao, I want "fun" pvp!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by DrLithvium View Post
    I want to funcom to have some ingame time in Battlestation. Then they would maybe understand more about the docs main problems.
    Stupid ppl who whine??

    I don't mind if we have less active healing, all we do now is hit BI once in awhile and refresh team HP and hot if we want to. That will give us more time to dot or nuke or debuff depending on what FC gives us. So long as we are actively doing something, which in pvm we arnt, I think it would be a good start.

    In pvp less active healing will give us more chances to kill people instead of being stuck chain healing ourselves until we die.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeren View Post
    Stupid ppl who whine??

    I don't mind if we have less active healing, all we do now is hit BI once in awhile and refresh team HP and hot if we want to. That will give us more time to dot or nuke or debuff depending on what FC gives us. So long as we are actively doing something, which in pvm we arnt, I think it would be a good start.

    In pvp less active healing will give us more chances to kill people instead of being stuck chain healing ourselves until we die.
    Well then they will see that it is just stupid people that whine about doc heals. Yeah less active healing will make pvp more fun. Indeed. But if 3people fire off their perks and specials at the same time the result would be the same.
    Drtheron B 220/30 Atrox Doc First AI30 atrox doc on RK1
    Stilithium B 220/12 Nanomage Doc PVP project


    Nttheron B 220/16 Atrox NT Ao easymode pvp is: on
    Lithvium B 220/13 Solitius Crat DD hoe project
    Zystem B 208/8 Nanomage Engineer Tradeskiller


    + A couple of alts in progress

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DrLithvium View Post
    But if 3people fire off their perks and specials at the same time the result would be the same.
    As it should be.
    Or even 1 person attacking a doc.
    Also, 1 doc attacking a person.

    Requiring 4 people to coordinate everything to kill one opposing player cannot ever be balance.

    Yes yes, I'll leave the thread now, I only have 2 PVM doctors.
    Don't be lonely anymore.

    Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkstaah View Post
    As it should be.
    Or even 1 person attacking a doc.
    Also, 1 doc attacking a person.

    Requiring 4 people to coordinate everything to kill one opposing player cannot ever be balance.

    Yes yes, I'll leave the thread now, I only have 2 PVM doctors.
    thanks!
    don't let the door hit you on your rump.
    albeit sexy rump <3
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    .

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkstaah View Post
    As it should be.
    Or even 1 person attacking a doc.
    Also, 1 doc attacking a person.

    Requiring 4 people to coordinate everything to kill one opposing player cannot ever be balance.

    Yes yes, I'll leave the thread now, I only have 2 PVM doctors.
    Any special reason you can think of that docs shouldnt be able to do that, but engies, enfs soldiers,advs and so on can?

    Is it becuse the docs uber ability to kill other players that is far better than any other profession? Please take some time
    to visit bs with your docs.
    Last edited by DrLithvium; Jan 7th, 2010 at 06:17:39.
    Drtheron B 220/30 Atrox Doc First AI30 atrox doc on RK1
    Stilithium B 220/12 Nanomage Doc PVP project


    Nttheron B 220/16 Atrox NT Ao easymode pvp is: on
    Lithvium B 220/13 Solitius Crat DD hoe project
    Zystem B 208/8 Nanomage Engineer Tradeskiller


    + A couple of alts in progress

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DrLithvium View Post
    Any special reason you can think of that docs shouldnt be able to do that, but engies, enfs soldiers,advs and so on can?

    Is it becuse the docs uber ability to kill other players that is far better than any other profession? Please take some time
    to visit bs with your docs.
    enfs, solds, advs, engis don't require coordination of any kind, all you do is whack them until they dead (not true for advs but its advs ffs they need a nerf of massive proportions anyway)

    Also I do agree that these profs do need a nerf to survivability (or a nerf to offense to balance things out) but just because they are OP means you want to be OP also? No, it means they should be nerfed accordingly.

  12. #12
    Looks great.

    What I would like to see is better resist and our debuff-removals to be up to date with current debuffs.

  13. #13
    Thanks for the info!
    Doesn't looks bad. Doesn't look great. Guess we'll see.

    Healing: Spreading out the amount of healing to balance the numbers across all level ranges.
    A nice little change, but hardly anything balance changing. We never lacked healing not even in the 110-174 range. It was more a bit annoying to use the same toolset without any change from level 110 to 174 but it is also the level range players learn to play a doctor and use their toolset. With heals, stims, init debuffs and perks we have enough healing to keep tanks alive but unlike TL7 it requires some effort by the tank and team too which is contrary to the public oppinion a good thing. If all else fails we allways could equip HP stuff and CH tank ourself. At least for hecklers or other non debuffing mobs. As for inferno... A 160 toon lacking healing power for a tl7 zone should be expected.

    Cyberdeck: Potential non-offensive Doctor 'weaponry' which allows the Doctor to choose between maximum healing/debuff/nuking capabilities, or whether they wish to go fully-offense by choosing a weapon.
    Bah. This'll bite us in the ass.
    Diversity is good. A cyberdeck killed diversity for NTs and the same can happen for docs.
    My guess: It's a nice alternative now. Then new nanos come. some are locked to cyberdecks to not become op. More nukes come for cyberdeck... Oh noez! All use cyberdeck!

    I'd be glad to be proven wrong thouh.

    Debuffs: Potential AoE debuffs.
    Mh torn on this one. I can only think of AoE init debuffs ( surprise! ) and those would be awesome for pvm, so much i'd call them easymode even. It may result in even more encounters with all ubt immune mobs.

    For pvp it'll be a major annoyance and get more hate as in being attacked and more hate in forums for us. It'll be a major boost against pet professions... again. Unless the majority of damage towards us shifts from specials/perks to regular hits, it'll only be useful against pet professions, zergs of doctors and MAs.

    Nuking: Nuke lines will be extended and adjusted across all level ranges, including the introduction of new nukes. Malpractice will receive adjustments. :P
    Neat. Can we also get a second Nano recharge bar?

    Buffs: Potential creation of team-based versions of existing buffs (such as Team-Enhanced Deathless Blessing)
    Sounds interesting. The existing buffs part limits the possibilities somewhat.
    What can you think of? Pulsing Healdelta Aura? A team nano resist buff? And... uhh... A team first aid buff.. yeah.. knowing FC that may come. Nanoinit team buff may collide with our own Nano init buff.
    Uh.. did I miss any possibility?


    EDIT
    I have said this many time for our heals and dots allready... But since I see a lot of other professions getting Local Cooldowns on nanos, MA for their heals for example so heal recahrge doesn't conflict with casting other nanos... Are there any plans for Local Cooldowns on our nanos?
    Having all heals on a local cooldown of 4-5 seconds, with only 2 seconds recharge so we can dot/nuke(new nukes anyone?)
    Having nukes, Dots on a 4-6 second Local Cooldown, with only 2 seconds recharge so we can heal?
    And so forth...

    I am mainly playing without AS, and recharge times are the biggest issue for my offense. Force a non AS doc to heal and offense is gone.
    Last edited by XenonDe; Jan 7th, 2010 at 13:03:54.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  14. #14
    Looks like a mixed bag - difficult to tell without the details, but my 2creds..


    Healing: Would be nice for docs to have more scaling between TL5 and TL7, something that's been asked for for ages, albeit not as much recently as ppl level so fast now.

    Cyberdeck: Intrigued by this, I actually wouldn't mind something like the NT version, if it means I can cast and land a variety of dots and nukes when I'm not healing, and will still give me max healing set-up for pvm raids.

    AoE Debuffs: This is gonna make people cry nerf surely ...^^

    Nuking: Great, new nukes! Not too happy about the adjustment to malp tho, I like the concept behind a stacking effect - makes it a bit more interesting. It's not that easy to land (def checks as well as ppl being perfectly able to run away from a doc) that it's OP imo. Depends what the adjustment is I guess.

    Buffs: Team SFA...? As bewildered as anyone by this
    The nature of monkey is irrepressible.
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  15. #15
    Healing changes

    Got a bit more info on healing changes now...

    Changes and concept haven't been finalized as of yet, but what they are working towards or consideing is several different heals with each their own local recharge.

    Imagine something along these lines concept wise...

    - A large heal with long local recharge when lots of HP is really needed fast
    - Several lower heals with faster local recharge for trickle healing or filling up and such


    The way I see it the BIG thing here is LOCAL RECHARGE....

    When heals are on local recharge it means that we can do damage with DoT's/Nukes/Perks/Regulars/Specials even when we are healing !!!

    Think a bit about that.... WOW in my humble opinion.


    It means that playing a doctor will become a lot more involving and active, having to decide on what heal to use at any given time, while still being able to DoT and Nuke or whatever.





    Cyberdeck...

    Bigbubba especially have been lobbying heavily against these ending up doing to us what they did to NT's and I'm sure it have been noticed, and we can only hope they will take the feedback up to serious consideration.
    Feel free to elaborate on this subject as I'm sure this is something that we all feel strongly about.

    I myself am intriqued about the concept, but can see it go wrong in many ways, but also well in many.
    So... Solid suggestions and feedback on implementation of this concept is vital at this stage in my opinion.


    Will be back with more info and opinions as soon as I can
    Real life takes a dasm lot of time
    Mekhdoc 220/27/70 Equip | Mekh 220/28/67 Equip | Shadesch 220/21/70 Equip
    Mekhkeeper 220/22/70 Equip | Roflmao 220/15/50 | Fixyaself 200/23/64 Equip

  16. #16

    Funcom employee

    Just as a side note, I wanna say that when we mentioned creating new team-based versions of buffs, we meant taking the concept behind, say, Team-Enhanced Deathless Blessing and spreading it across a variety of levelling ranges instead of just having the one. So you'd have Team-Enhanced Cycle of Life, Team-Enhanced Strengthen Resolve, ect. ect. Not so much creating new buffs, but just making new team-based versions of existing ones to fit across the doc's levelling progression.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  17. #17
    so, ICH with extended local timer, this would be our big heal i assume, though it might be nerfed as well because enfs are losing HP on their ess.

    Our SL heals will be nerfed a few k each with a local timer of XX amount. Thats what its looking like. Doesn't seem like much of a change unless they are shorting the cast time and recharge time considerably to allow us to make use of these nukes/dots.

    As far as cyberdecks are concerned i would much rather see them as a upgrade to our current one we use for team heals and malp. Allow us to right click it to change it. Several versions, each time you Right click it it adds some of the mods that allow us to heal/nuke better and takes away an amount of AAO or weapon skills and maybe some +dmg? Each time we click it we get more of each until we get back to our original cyberdeck. Then there can be a weapon version of it that gives better mods then the best hud version. This would allow us more diversity and more flexibility between playstyles and even IP if we end up being able to swap between hud decks and weapon ones.


    On the topic of -aao/weaponskills/+dmg if this were to happen the deck would have to probably be -AAO but buff nano skills as well otherwise it would nerf our weapons and landing rates.


    Edit: Then for the team buffs thats a welcome addention so long as nano cost isn't crazy for the team versions at lower lvls. They should cost more then the single ofc but it needs to be reasonable.

  18. #18

    Funcom employee

    Also, on the topic of cyberdecks, I want to say that it's really important that you guys not think of "cyberdeck" and instantly think the current NT implementation. In hopes of clearing up a little bit of the confusion I'm gonna do something I really hate and double-quote myself here - Once from a thread in the Engineer forums, and again from a post made elsewhere; hopefully this will help show off our intents a little bit better. =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Something I really should start clearing up a bit - When we talk about adding a "cyberdeck" to certain professions, we mean in a "basic intent" form; not necessarily the form that the current NT cyberdeck takes (which may also very well be changing).

    The base concept of a "cyberdeck" in the context we talk about it now implies a profession-specific item which is utilized as a weapon (ie: held) and negates or diminishes their weapon-based damage for differing options in other areas; As examples: Increased nuking capabilities, increased attack options for their pets, differing modifiers on nanos being cast, and so on.

    So yes - Focus on the core concept, not any current implementations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii
    I'll go ahead and say this - We haven't finalized exactly how we're altering/implementing cyberdeck functionality, BUT it is highly likely that very few nanos will be cyberdeck locked. That said, that doesn't mean there won't be any - Just like you have to wield a weapon to get Aimshot or Burst, you may have incentives for wielding the CDs.

    On the whole, while there may be diminished returns for utilizing certain nanos while not wielding a cyberdeck, they will most likely still be functional in some fashion or form - I don't like the idea of removing an entire part of a profession's toolset over their weapon choice.

    Note: This doesn't apply to NTs. We have other plans for you guys. =)
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekh View Post
    [COLOR="Red"]The way I see it the BIG thing here is LOCAL RECHARGE....

    When heals are on local recharge it means that we can do damage with DoT's/Nukes/Perks/Regulars/Specials even when we are healing !!!

    Think a bit about that.... WOW in my humble opinion.


    It means that playing a doctor will become a lot more involving and active, having to decide on what heal to use at any given time, while still being able to DoT and Nuke or whatever.
    Finally! Grew tired of asking for that again, and againm and again.
    It is a major problem of any nanocaster and this was the only possible solution. The very same moment ICH has gotten that funtionality, it should have been planned to add that to every nano.
    Still, awesome. Big thanks!



    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Just as a side note, I wanna say that when we mentioned creating new team-based versions of buffs, we meant taking the concept behind, say, Team-Enhanced Deathless Blessing and spreading it across a variety of levelling ranges instead of just having the one. So you'd have Team-Enhanced Cycle of Life, Team-Enhanced Strengthen Resolve, ect. ect. Not so much creating new buffs, but just making new team-based versions of existing ones to fit across the doc's levelling progression.
    Oh, that is nice. Especially since leveling toons of a profession usually get the shaft on new stuff.... I'd like to see new profession tools coming for all level ranges not endgame only. That often leaves a profession hanging at lower levels... concealment for shades comes to mind. Glad to know lower docs get some treats.

    Now I gotta take it personal, Kintaii.
    I'm impressed. Your hands must be bleeding. Have you even stopped to eat the past 10 hours or have been been constantly posting? You're spamming the forums faster then Saetania, Sterva and hugenick combined. Thanks! for the continued stream of information!
    Last edited by XenonDe; Jan 7th, 2010 at 21:15:19.
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  20. #20

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by XenonDe View Post
    Now I gotta take it personal, Kintaii.
    I'm impressed. Your hands must be bleeding. Have you even stopped to eat the past 10 hours or have been been constantly posting? You're spamming the forums faster then Saetania, Sterva and hugenick combined. Thanks! for the continued stream of information!
    Pffft. Like I sleep. XD
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

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