Quickie Explanation of New Trader NanoSheet (Summary Open to Criticism)

[Saetos]

So, a quick rundown of the changes to the nanos, as per Kazeran's spectacular thread. (i.e. here's Saetos' lulzy version because he's not creative and awesome)

Document can be found here: http://www.anarchy-online.com/anarch...20-%202011.xls

Kintaii Update on April 6th:

So here's a few things to (likely) look for in the next release of the Trader doc:

* New critical increase buff, same values as MA buffs
* New init buffs for ranged/nanoinit
* Composite tradeskill buffs extended and available at same levels as Engineer
* Heal nanos have had their scaling adjusted - Traders are *the* best natural support healer* at this time. Note: Healing WILL be harsh on the Trader's health, and should make you nervous. :P
* Damage self buffs adjusted for mid-level and maximum buff is now equivalent to the same amount of damage add as an MA
* Skill drains now effect target's team, and also drain for the same amount as the positive benefit returned on the Trader

There's other stuff in there as well, but I'll admit that I'm not as familiar with this document as I am others we've released so my ability to comment is a little diminished. Figured I'd pop in and say hey regardless, though, so... hey. =)

On drains: When the Trader casts a drain on a target, that drain is then recast on the target's entire team. It will check for NR on each target to land, and on landing will also check the individual target's level to land the appropriate drain.

The buff portion of this nano will then be cast on the Trader, with values equal to the drain landed upon the original target (IE: what you drain on the first target is what you get buffed for).

In the current sheet (IE: the one we're working on internally), Divest Skills (Nanite Improved) drains for -275 and returns 275 to the Trader. Again, subject to change, blahblahblah, you guys know the drill by now.

*By this statement I mean that they will be the best non-Doctor healer *by default*. Adventurers in Healing Morph and MAs in Zazen will be better healers, but they're also sacrificing a lot to put them in that healing state.

All Nanos in General
- Folks... we're cooldown fiends now. Pretty much all of our combative nanos have a 1 second recharge time and carry various durations of cooldowns.

For our team buffs, XenonDE caught something I didn't:

Every Team buff is changed to buff the targets team meaning you can target whomever and it'll buff his entire team not yours. If he is solo.. it'll buff just him.

Roots
- COOLDOWNS:
== AOE Roots: 30 seconds
== Roots: 10 seconds
- The roots have gotten significantly reduced durations in PVP versus players and pets:
* [AOE] Flow of Time: 7 seconds
* Entreprenural Thrall: 7 seconds
* Greater Detain Customer: 6.5 seconds
* Profit Preoccupation: 6 seconds
* Greater Embrace of Greed: 5.5 seconds
* [AOE] Pyramid Marketing: 5 seconds
* Detain Customer: 5 seconds
* Embrace of Greed: 4.5 seconds
* Profiteer's Grip: 4 seconds
* Lesser Embrace of Greed: 3.5 seconds
* [AOE] Sticky Ground: 3 seconds
* Lesser Detain Customer: 3 seconds

Calm/Mezz
- COOLDOWNS:
== Cosmic Relaxation: 3 seconds
== All others: 5 seconds
- NanoCost has been increased.
- Level contribution to NanoResist has been eliminated; thus easier to land in SL.
- Sharp increase in NanoInit debuffing.

Team Health Payments
- COOLDOWNS:
== 3.5 seconds
- The damage we take is no longer a DOT, but a straight hit equal to the Health range. (dunno why they're called Delayed then...)
- NanoCost has increased by quite a bit (777 at top).

Drain Health, Heal Other
- COOLDOWNS:
== 3.5 seconds
- Unfortunately, these babies are no longer usable on ourselves, as they're considered drain nanos.
- NanoCost has sharply increased (1650 at top).

Drain Other, Heal Self
- COOLDOWNS:
== 4 seconds
- NanoCost has increased (up to 730 with the current versions).
- This line has been extended! Here's the bio, so to speak:
930 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 150 | Damage 1456, Heal 728
1130 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 175 | Damage 1856, Heal 928
1330 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 186 | Damage 2256, Heal 1128
1530 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 195 | Damage 2656, Heal 1328
1730 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 205 | Damage 3056, Heal 1528
1930 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 210 | Damage 3456, Heal 1728
2130 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 212 | Damage 3856, Heal 1928
2330 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 214 | Damage 4256, Heal 2128
2530 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 216 | Damage 4656, Heal 2328
2730 BM/TS/Nanocost | Level 218 | Damage 5056, Heal 2528
- The amount drained is either just a tad smaller, or improved (usually improved).

Your Enemy's Enemy Is Your Friend
- COOLDOWNS:
== 1 minute
- The nano has floored the values of the drains (so 100, 200, 300, 500 across the ranges), and are now 15 seconds, 1 per second instead of 30 seconds, 1 per 2 seconds.

Nano Point Stealing Line
- COOLDOWNS:
== 4 seconds
- Oh god, you want to talk about amount increases? Here you go; not only did NanoCost increase (a bit), but amount drained is now stellar (up to 5k with Plagiarize Notum + Accumulator 10)
- o bai credit deductions

Grand Theft Humidity
- COOLDOWNS:
== 1 minute
- It now drains 15% of your nanopool. One hit. That's it. Hmm. Can be used on everything and anyone though!
- The replenishment on us is still intact though.

Outfit Team Nano Regen
- COOLDOWNS:
== 59 seconds (1 minute nano duration)
- Nanocost is HUGE (4980 with Rouse Outfit [Team]).
- Amount healed is slightly higher.

Lend Nano
- Not much changed. ....... wait! Yes! It's now a team buff (4 hours), and no longer hits our own NanoPool with a debuff! Hooray!

Evade Buffs
- 4 hours. That is all.

Tradeskill "Mochams"
- Hey, we can buff other people with it now! I suppose this is to pretty much give Engineers a "wrangle" for their new type of nanocrystal requirements.
- The other tradeskill buffs are 4 hours.

Computer Literacy Buffs
- Guess what? These babies are 4 hour long nanos as well. Recharge has also been slashed to 1 second. So now you don't have to rebuff constantly to twink on your belts and NCUs, nor do you have to recast when selling bags upon bags of plasma and cut gems.

Nanobot Defense
- Breed differences has been removed from these nanos.
- The nano drain on us is one straight hit of 50,000 nanopool.

Borrow Reflect
- COOLDOWNS:
== 2 minutes
- ... I have no clue. I can't really tell what's changed.

Charms n' Pets
- COOLDOWNS:
== 15 minutes
- I hope you liked your Carlos, because now you can use them twice as often!
- Their debuff procs are now as follows:
1) 1000 point NanoPool drain
2) 275 point skill drain [10 seconds]
3) 10000 point AC debuff [15 seconds]
4) Root [5 seconds]
- The charms... I got no clue. I don't know if they removed the 30-minute stun from the charms. The Psychic requirement is still 449, in any case, so... but we still have them.

Grid Team / Grid Self
- Our team nanos now only take 60, 50, and 40 seconds to cast.
- AND OUR SOLO ONE ONLY TAKES 40 SECONDS. Instead of 3 minutes!!!! Woo! Now we have a REASON to buy the solo one!

Root Reductions
- COOLDOWNS:
== Self: 20 seconds
== Other: 7 / 5 / 3 seconds
- Values adjusted to keep in line with the new CC durations.

Slayer Nanos
- TheybuffalldamagenowYAAAAAAY. Now they're slightly sorta useful!

Divest Damage
- COOLDOWNS:
== 15 seconds
- Extended down so that most levels can now use this line.

NanoResist Debuff
- COOLDOWNS:
== 10 seconds
- Condensed to one line, and now we can only debuff up to 500 NanoResist.
- If this nano isn't maintained, the target gains an immunity that lasts 15 seconds.

Drain AC Debuff
- COOLDOWNS:
== 10 seconds
- Now it's a straight AC debuff instead of the weird-ass ladder debuffs. And it gives us a decent amount of AC back (-10000/+6250 AC)
- Oh and guess what? THEY DEBUFF AND BUFF CRIT CHANCE NOW! Up to 30% on both sides! Celebrate!

AC Buff Line
- SO remember that the AC Debuffs drain and buff Crit along with ACs? Same with these nanos! They buff the team and drain us as before; except the values actually... matter (3600 AC, 15% crit).

Skill Drain
- COOLDOWNS:
== 5 seconds
- I hope you're sitting down, because this will shock probably the entire planet.
- The drains now last 15 seconds. The drains, now last, 15 seconds.
- The drains also scale based on the level of the target.
- The drains have been halved in amount drained, and do not drain the AAO of the target if it's not an NPC.
- Laddering drains, and the amount returned to us has not been affected EXCEPT now the duration of the buff portion is 10 minutes! Yaaaaaay!

Skill Wranglers
- The single target ones are GONE. The team ones do not debuff us anymore!

Umbral Wranglers
- Everyone of them are 4 hours now.
- They also scale based on levels.

So... great list, huh? Oh, but you might ask yourself, "Gee, Saetos, seems you forgot a line!"






Here's the big shocker for most of you:

Corporate Protection / Industrial Sabotage / Shutdown Skills
- GONE.



[ General Observations ]
Basically, we are now meant to sling debuffs like mad, due to the very low recharge time of them (1-2 seconds), short durations, shortish cooldowns, and our Health drains becoming actually very strong nukes. Every debuff now has a purpose, and has values now to where it doesn't feel extraneous.

Now, I made the "Gone" size 5, bold and italicized to punctuate a point: with us losing the AAO portion of the drain on ALL the skill drains (including the nanites), and losing CP/IS, we've gone from draining an effective 1500 AAO for 3min+ to 276 for 15 seconds. This is definitely a huge hit to our defensive prowess, puts a much heavier emphasis on using our nanos, especially our beefed up health drains, to protect ourselves.

This is definitely going to shock a lot of Traders, since this is a major shift in how we function especially in PVP, and somewhat in PVM. I probably will share a lot of your frustrations and elations, so please do post below with EVERY complaint and compliment you have, and I will do what I can to pass the message along.

[Saetos]

Oh dear Lord... 5 pages of notes.

You guys are definitely a vocal bunch. I'll try to reply to yall as best I can.

* Nano drains only drain nano, and doesnt give nano to caster ? Yes, we get 100% of the nanopool we drain back from these nanos.
* Lend Nano and Wrangle dont debuff trader ... so basicaly, they are free buffs you can maintain ? Yes.
* what happen with the level check on drains, and drain refresh ?
=> I drain 1 high target and get a "high" bonus in my NCU ... means I can not drain a lower target because I ve got a better one going ? or else ? No. The nano that checks levels only checks the level of the target and will place the debuff on the target accordingly. The schematic for buffing yourself will still fit the same way as it did before.

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong or something, but using any nano drain (eg. plagarise notum) fills the trader's nanopool 100% or? No. "Recover 100%" means the drain takes back 100% of the value of the amount drained from the target.

So if i finally managed to actually land a root after 4 resists and 2 immune messages, i will get a whopping safe 7 seconds of distance? And i assume even fumbles will get a 10 second cooldown? Will i at least be able to put all roots known to mankind on a hotbar to cycle through them or will they share a cooldown? I'm almost sure they'll all carry some sort of universal cooldown.

... Why should i bother casting this if i won't have the time to heal myself up after landing it, let alone the time to drain my target to survive a close combat scenario? Recognize that these nanos have a 1 second recharge.

Will we still be able to cycle through them for increased team support? Yes, I believe we can now keep casting these as long as we have enough Hitpoints to satisfy the cost of casting the nano.

(Drain Health, Heal Other)
What the what? This sounds like a huge nerf. Looking down i see that we will get a heal-drain that will heal us for about 2.5k, but i really prefer a self-heal that doesn't have to counter a NanoResist and will fail >50% of the time. This is bad. It's the nano I used most often in PvP obviously and not only won't I be able to pay the nanocost if i spam this, no, i won't even be allowed to spam it on me...hmmm... I agree, Syyc.

(Drain Other, Heal Self)
I assume the damage will be halfed in PvP and reduced by reflect...so i get a small chance to deal about 1.7k damage and heal myself for about 2.5k? Wrong, the heals are not affected by how much the target is drained. It may look that way, as the heal values are half of the drain values, but that's probably because of quickness in writing. The heal is independant of the damage.

([color=lightgreen][size=4]Evade Buffs)
"Hello FC, i won't be able to survive for more than 10 seconds after these changes" - "Here, take these 4h buffs instead of the 1h versions..."

Don't need and please don't try to sell this as an improvement to our toolset. Honestly I'm not. I'm actually in the same boat as you are; I'd like to see much more defensive prowess than 4 hour versions of CL/evade/tradeskill buffs.

(Fake Carlos)
I can rp with my pets twice in a 30 minutes timespawn. Oh joy. Looks like another change that noone will notice. To be fair the debuffs have been improved and the AR of the pets have apparently improved as well. To be fair, again, yes, they are still a useless waste of time.

(Drain AC/Crit)
Wait a moment? What's the idea behind this one? "Oh trader can't spam their selfheal on them anymore, lets make them spam other nanos that used to be completly useless"? Seems like it. This was one of our most useless lines, and to give it a massive boost in amount drained (and given back) and to throw our old crit drains on this little guy now, and across all levels, is definitely an improvement. But I do get what you're saying.

Hahahahaha...seriously? Can I make a joke that a developer finally managed to level to TL2 and met a trader inside a towerfield? Oh well, it seems like i found the nanos i will skip to cast in favor of my attempts to land a health-drain or cast a ac-debuff on players... Apparently we're not meant to focus on these for PVP/PVM, but use the wide spectrum of debuffs for our combat. But I do agree that 15 seconds and dramatically reduced efficiency is a problem.

Oh great, now we have to actually team those randoms that ask for wrangles. What have we done to you that we deserve that? A valid disagreement; I'll poke the guys about this.

After thinking about it for 30 minutes: We completely loose the ability to solo PvM. Lowering Targets AAO was the only thing that kept us from getting killed. Reducing the drains to 15 seconds also in pvm renders us almost completely defenseless. We don't lose the AAO from the drains when we drain an NPC; plus we've gained massive Health drains to counteract the fact that we've lost the ability to heal ourselves with Hagglers.

Here are my thoughts.
let me elaborate:
- the removal of the 15% crit buff from our drains presents a very large DD nerf to us in PvM (and pvp to a lesser extent). Previously, the only way to get a solid DD setup at all was to do a crit-gear setup; this is not not possible as -30% to the overall setup is crippling. Sure we can spam the health drain on NPCs, but did FC really intend to turn is into a nuking class? [b]Wuh? We gain 30% crit from the AC drains. We do lose 15% when using the team AC buffs, but that's a 15% boost to the entire team's crit chance, which is more in line with our original design; so now the team that teams us will love their damage and we still have 15% to play around with.

BUT, with only a 15second duration it is nearly impossible to realistically keep these debuffs up on more than a couple people at best. This seems like an inherent flaw in the re-design. As you may have seen I did propose AOE AAO drains; though that seems to have been met with mixed reactions. In the face of this though I will definitely bring it up again.

...the only reason top end traders can handle any damage at all is because of the additional AAO drains making our defense rating "relatively" better. Without this, most professions will still be able to perk us easily even after being drained, and if that is the case why have drains at all? The drains, I assume, are now meant as a supplement to the rest of our repetroire, not our superduperUber nanos that bury all the other "useless" drains behind. They're actually ... OK as they are now, but I do agree in the fact that the hole in our defense is a giant, gaping hole that seems to be an oversight, as we don't have a viable defense outside of a NanoResist gamble.

What i would love to hear from FC is: what is the basis for the changes and the new numbers? TBH, it's pretty clear that the main focus was not making traders viable in the new system; rather it was trying to appease the people that complain about being drained. It's a sad state...

Traders were one of the only truly unique classes in all the MMO's i've played over many years... these changes are a tombstone on that profession from a practical perspective. Leaving this paragraph as it is for FC to see.

BAD stuff imo:
- NO WAY of healing yourself if you don't have a target, or did i miss something here? If you have reflects you might get a ridiculously small heal from the Health drains, but otherwise no.
- where did our ranged init go? I have no idea... I'll poke them about that.
- Can't debuff mobs NR as much as before (6400+250 iirc) but i guess nt's will do it better anyhow, their arena now.Keep in mind we can do this to everyone, not just PVM mobs.
- 15 sec duration on drain is ok, IF TARGET IS A PLAYER, in pvm it's a bit ridiculous. Agreed.
- Corporate Protection / Industrial Sabotage / Shutdown Skills, GONE! bah!

Unsure on the charm/pet nanos, how long pets are with us, if we can move when we have stuff charmed etc, please clarify. As I said I couldn't tell whether the self-stun was removed or not, the spreadsheet isn't clear. Genele still lists the "Concentrating on..." nanos, but they seem to have no discernable effect.

I don't really know either of our professionals except by name so I'm wondering if you guys are hardcore PvPers (currently, not previously, and with end-game equipment, not "good" equipment). I feel like a lot of the trader changes recently have been one sided (that side being the side that cries nerf on us) and i'm just curious if our professionals just aren't pvpers or if FC just ignores them and listens to the whiners. Honestly, I'm not, but I do come into this from the perspective of those much more experienced than I am, on top of my own personal experiences. Whether FC is listening to us or the vocal minority I can't say, because I can't tell myself sometimes.

IS Eviscerate Defense not castable pvp wise? if not why? is -450 vs -500 a big deal? Yes, they are PVP debuffs as well.

Things I do not like:
Bring back some trading please..

I though AO was a skill based system and lvl locks were wrong and artificial? It's a level scaling; the buff portions of the drains and other nanos are not affected by the level of the target, and we can freely cast any drain we want on any target; it'll only be scaled by their level.
A very interesting dynamic in a team: having to drain each 3 minutes, means the team has to push forward, or loose the powers of the trader.

A mechanic I like, and lvl locks will ruin. The level scaling does nothing to our laddering mechanic.

My notes are on the low to mid lvl trader which I enjoy immensely, I do not have a 220 trader, but still think my points are valid for for the reason that you and your lvl 220 is not everything..
Trader is one of the professions that are fun to lvl, and just focusing on 220 PVP, which you claim here should be the only focus.. is going to ruin that. Are you saying "you" as in FunCom or me?

Killing a doc will become a epic occurrence and a myth. Our nano drains are starkly improved; once we debuff their NR, a few good hits with that and GTH should knock them down to zero health, which is when we can come in with a few good hits and drains of our own. But yea... this is still kind of a gray area for Traders, if we can handle other casters.

[Saetos]

General Reaction from the Public

* Strong health plunders is not an effective counterpart to a ravaged defense (losing an effective 1224 AAD). The loss of Shutdown Skills, the LE AAO/AAD drains, and losing -AAO against players on PCs is what I'm talking about, here.

* Please make it more obvious that these Team wrangles now buff the target's team, not necessarily your own (unless you target yourself or a teammate).

* NanoPool maintaining will be a nightmare, considering the spiked cost of nanos, the reduced duration, and the need to constantly update the drains so that they do not run out on the target. NanoPool drains will not give back NanoPool if the target has no nanopool to drain, and considering the massive amounts the nano can drain (up to 5k) NanoPool will vanish on the target extremely quickly.

* Our weapon DD will be ... interesting with this patch. Considering the flurry of nano casting, the removal of Ranged Init from the Slayer line, and inability to use health plunders on demand without annihilating one's nanopool (not considering the fact that resisting this nano will cut DD by a ton) AND losing 9% crit [30 from drains, -15 from AC team buff, total value 15, original value 24 from Nanite Improved drains], our use in a team will be even lower than before.

* The problem of Umbrals not affecting damage as MBSes are tremendously easy to meet at TL7, or 153 AAO doing extraordinarily little to boost the damages of some support professions' weapons (namely the MP, Crat and Trader at a rumored 1/12 ratio past 1K AR) is still prevalent.

* Pets and charms are still unwanted parts of our toolsets. The pets are too finicky to bother with and carry little use in most PVM raid environments (many mobs are not going to care about a root if they're immune, or 1000 nanopool drain) and the lockout is still too long to bother. The charms as they're presented in the document is confusing, as the normal text that accompanies a stun, which is what the charms basically do to the Trader, is removed, taking away the point of having the "Concentrating on..." effects. Do they stun or not?

* 15 second durations on drains... meh. In PVP it could definitely use an extension to about 25, 30, 35, maybe 40 seconds, considering how relatively weak they've become. We do realize we need them shorter in PVP.
But in PVM? It's stupid. PVM, especially soloing, moves at a much slower pace, and 3:30 was perfectly reasonable. There is no reason to strain Traders on their nanopool more than they will have to do in PVP against PVM mobs and bosses with millions, perhaps billions of HP.

* Roots being no longer than 7 seconds in PVP is way too short.

* Why aren't we allowed to heal ourselves with nanos outside of combat?

* Enforcers become even more ridiculously powerful than before, because our inability to drain much AAO from them (total of 276, instead of previously 1500) will allow them to get in range and absolutely floor us with stuns and strong weapons and associated perks.

* [NEW] The nano requirements for the new health drains are obscenely high, requiring a fully dedicated nanoskill setup on top of both drains running to cast. Knocking it down 30-50 points (perhaps even 100) would be awesome.
Alternatively, make higher versions of ALL the lines, not just this one; and make them more than 8% better than the previous line.

Summary: We're now AC, crit, and nanopool totems. Extremely weak totems at that, with lower DD potential than before. We're not too bad in teams, but if we can't use our tools in the right order and at the right times, we're horribly weak. Our defenses are fragile - our nanopool gone means we're dead, since we've lost 1200+ AAD.

[RedWatr]

wow...surprisingly, good changes may actually take my trader out of the dust bin.

[Kintaii]

As a side note: Keep it on topic and keep it clean. Me and the rest of the Travelling Forums Gank Squad *will* be keeping an eye on the thread, and I will not hesitate to go all Anarrina on y'all. ;P

On the whole, though, I hope you guys like the work done thus-far. As noted, the changes *are* still in the early stages; there's still a lot of work that needs to be done on the document. But with us moving next week and uncertain as to when we'll get another chance to brush the doc up, we figured best to go ahead and post it now than make you guys wait another week or two. =)

[Anarrina]

(When did I actually become a pejorative? )

[Kintaii]

(towards the bottom of this page: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...=586255&page=2 - but enough silliness, let's let 'em chat. XD)

[RedWatr]

don't make me pretend to get out my mod tools ><

[Syyceria]

Oh boy, i don't even know where to start...

[RmikClan]

i love the changes!!! (because i dont have a trader haha)

[Lejiia]

hahahahahahaha

Looks like PvM shade without the damages and the def.....at least I had a good laugh.

[Hulk]

thank god...

[RmikClan]

in before the emo army starts posting

[Gridpain]

hum ...

Some things will need more explanations (at list for me )

* Nano drains only drain nano, and doesnt give nano to caster ?

* Lend Nano and Wrangle dont debuff trader ... so basicaly, they are free buffs you can maintain ?

* what happen with the level check on drains, and drain refresh ?
=> I drain 1 high target and get a "high" bonus in my NCU ... means I can not drain a lower target because I ve got a better one going ? or else ?

[Shareida]

hmmm. We *did* get more offensive power. The main thing is again, the longer you keep that odd trader debuff you, the more wrecked you are. We became team crit buff monkeys.

[Weltall]

I'm sure I'm reading this wrong or something, but using any nano drain (eg. plagarise notum) fills the trader's nanopool 100% or?

[Lazy]

feh.

rouse outfit is the ONLY reason to team a trader in a raid environment. for everything else a crat is better. wtb improvement. mind you if pnh is getting a buff too traders might become even more useless.

(sorry traders, no offense. <3)

[Jahh]

Next can you please make an effect which create a pink poney when i ll land a 15s divest on an enf under rage.

[RedWatr]

think you guys are looking at how these changes fit in with current state of the game too much. everyone is changing, and nobody knows the intricacies of how everything's going to work yet.

[Gatester]

feh.

rouse outfit is the ONLY reason to team a trader in a raid environment. for everything else a crat is better. wtb improvement. mind you if pnh is getting a buff too traders might become even more useless.

(sorry traders, no offense. <3)

No one likes massive AC boosts and +15% crit chance? I'd take another look at the document, that is the single highest damage increase of any profession and combined with large AC debuffs makes traders the damage mongers.