Engineer Nano Document: Summary, Discussion and Feedback.

[Kintaii]

And when are more complete details on this group perkline, as well as how pets are being redesigned, expected to be shared with the consumer? Like...when engy doc is reviewed again, when changes hit test, 3 minutes before balance hits live, what?

Up next is Agents - Genele's doing some various cleanup work on the past prof docs while she's at it. Once she's done with Agents she'll be moving on to Perks - During this time we'll be working with the Profs on making sure that as many issues/concerns/etc. have been addressed.

After the new perk document is done, we will probably release it and the "v2" round of documents at the same time, so everyone can compare the two side-by-side - At that point we'll begin the process of 'finalizing' the design of the documents (not necessarily the numbers, mind you, as those are always changeable) with one last round of feedback from the public. At this point you'll probably start seeing changes hitting Testlive.

I doubt we'll release any 'real documents' on the pet revamp, as the changes there are mostly just tweaking/increasing/altering what they already have to make sure they fit with the current/new power curve of the game - Odds are these changes will be done in the itemization portion of the rebalancing, so they may hit TL a bit later than the nano/perk changes. Either way, what we've said on them still stands - In general better AR, better health, etc. etc.

This will all spend a healthy amount of time on Testlive to make sure that what we have actually *works* and makes sense - No interest in shipping this stuff out to Live half-baked because... yeah, that would be a disaster I think we'd all like to avoid. :P So we'll make sure things are ok there, and make tweaks and changes where needed, and then when we're ready we'll push out to Live. After that, if we still need to make any tweaks, we can and will - A good benefit of doing this is that it's allowing us to actually *access* parts of the game we haven't been able to for years, so we'll be able to more easily change and modify anything we feel needs a boost/nerf.

Bear in mind, of course, that this is all just rough estimates and ideas - This isn't a promise of exactly how it's going to go down. ;P But that's a good idea of what the outline thusfar is. =)

[sultryvoltron]

I doubt we'll release any 'real documents' on the pet revamp, as the changes there are mostly just tweaking/increasing/altering what they already have to make sure they fit with the current/new power curve of the game - Odds are these changes will be done in the itemization portion of the rebalancing, so they may hit TL a bit later than the nano/perk changes. Either way, what we've said on them still stands - In general better AR, better health, etc. etc.

How will you properly guage the power of pet professions if you start out testing them with weak pets?

[Kintaii]

Because at that stage of testing, it isn't about gauging the power of the professions - It's about making sure the nanos/perks *actually work*. At that point it's as much bug-checking as it is anything else; once we make sure that people can actually upload/cast the nanos without the server breaking in two, *then* we can start checking the numbers. ;P

[Takun]

Bio Shielding has Bio Cocoon, Bio Regrowth, and Bio Rejuvination - All three of these have a heavy focus on healing Engineer (and an area heal as well because hey, every little bit helps).

Damage-to-Pet will have the direct DtP perk, as well as options for the Engineer to restore health to their pets. Actions in this line will be similar to the Bio Shielding line in terms of relative strength. So it will be a choice with similar-but-different benefits.

I'm confused. So we either have the choice of self healing, self absorbs or the option of transferring that damage to the pet and healing the pet.

I assume this means things like bio rejuv and bio regrow will NOT affect pets or friendly targets (self only)? Otherwise I see little point in going the damage to pet line, your giving up so much utility to put a further burden on keeping your pets alive.

Bio Line: Ability to heal yourself or your pet, your mate, the tank, the healer, etc

Damage to Pet line: Ability to transfer damage from yourself to your pet

Lets not forget in a team situation your the only one who can heal your pet, if your running the damage to pet line, that's on you to keep your pet alive - the doctor can't keep your widow up. where as if you have cocoon you can keep yourself alive and actually have the doctor do their job while your pet stays alive?

Personally I would rather have a constant "20% of the damage taken by the engineer is transferred to the widow instead" sort of nano available to every engineer. Think shared health pool.

P.S. So uh, hows that new grenade weapon design coming?

[Technogen]

I assume this means things like bio rejuv and bio regrow will NOT affect pets or friendly targets (self only)? Otherwise I see little point in going the damage to pet line, your giving up so much utility to put a further burden on keeping your pets alive.

No, it'll be Perk 1 In BTP line requires 0 perks in Bio-Shielding Line, the BS/C line will still work like it does, you can perk heal your pets. The DTP line will heal pets much better and let you dump damage to them so the heals are "for" you as well.

[KellionBane]

Surprised that no one has said this...

With the updating changing Nanos to Tradeskill reqs... Wouldn't that make Notum Repulsor godly on Engis?

[-Stage-]

With the updating changing Nanos to Tradeskill reqs... Wouldn't that make Notum Repulsor godly on Engis?

Hehe, that's been discussed. Couldn't find Kintaii's comment just now, but I recall him saying that NR perks can expect to have tradeskills on 'em when perks are next reworked.

[tigerengi]

After reading the entire thread, and (trying to) reading the nano doc, I have to say I see some overall improvements in buffing amounts, new nanos etc.
However, as also said earlier, what about the RE? Shotty? We even don't have that in our symbs, how would a buff affect this?
Or is this a (cheap) way to try and get us wanted?
Also I'm wondering where the entire pet balance will end. As I see the procs for pets, the pets will need a lot of tweaks here and there (higher base offence and defence maybe?) to make up for the lower AAO buff(s) and the utter stupid (in my opinion) decission to "remove" DVP an d make it a pet proc and single target.
After seeing the document it really made me think and wonder if devs really have a clue of the tools that engineers use and what items they have to support (shotty/re buffs?), or how much we have to rely on our pets?

Also I wonder something else:
All the current ingame nanoskill buffing items.
Will those be changed so they buff both nanoskills and tradeskills, or will they only buff nanoskills, unless an engineer uses/wears it and it changes to tradeskills?

[Lliers]

I think it would be appropriate for the engineer tradeskill buffs to stack with the trader tradeskill buffs.

[quieter456]

Why so tl5 mules can build ql300 ai armor? i just don't see the logic or purpose

[Lliers]

What's with being able to provide better tradeskilling? It's been incredibly hard to find any tradeskillers these days. I thought the point of the engineer changes was to force all engineers to IP tradeskills. Stacking the trader buffs will only give an extra +125 to tradeskills. Not game breaking, just enough to build things about 25-30 QL higher or so than is possible without them.

[tigerengi]

What's with being able to provide better tradeskilling? It's been incredibly hard to find any tradeskillers these days. I thought the point of the engineer changes was to force all engineers to IP tradeskills. Stacking the trader buffs will only give an extra +125 to tradeskills. Not game breaking, just enough to build things about 25-30 QL higher or so than is possible without them.

Don't forget the +125 tradeskill buffs are mochams for engineers after rebalance (casting and popping pets)

[drainbamage]

I really hope they relax the equipment/implant restrictions on (F)IPRs if they're going to make nanoskills useless for engineers.

[Louderer789]

Some details of the nanos may be changed before the rebalancing reaches the test server, and there will no doubt be more changes before it goes live, so this is a pretty critical time to offer feedback.

Are we still in the critical phase? The warning sirens have worn out.

[-Stage-]

Are we still in the critical phase? The warning sirens have worn out.

You are right to mock me.

[Psikie]

I have always gone off the philosophy of Hanse Davion, (Battletech fans) "You don't need armor if you don't get hit."

So what concearns me is the loss of blinds. Here is why, if you are smack in the middle of one of those bad pulls of hecklers or big room Inf missions with 4-6 mobs all aggro'd.... Are those blockers going to save you? 4-5 or 6 reg attacks emergency? Thats maybe 5 sec worth of combat? As opposed to blinds keeping those mobs from not only hitting you but your doc or tank as much?

Where do I start with pets? Calms we can't dismiss during a fight? So basically its worse than traders debuffing your weapon because at least you still can attack. But your main weapon being turned off and running wont help you because they will just chase you down in combat mode in pvp. No chance vs crats/nt/traders?

Or did i read that wrong that we wont have pet attention anymore?

[Louderer789]

Focus guys it could hit any minute now.

[Towerblock]

I focused so hard I think I made a poopy.

[MassDebater]

It's like those stereoscopic images where you go crosseyed and hope you can see the hidden picture, sadly all it does is give me a headache.

[Mostadio]

It's like those stereoscopic images where you go crosseyed and hope you can see the hidden picture, sadly all it does is give me a headache.

You mean the ones most people grunt and look at it with a tinge of malice and simply walk on by instead of standing there looking like a retard? Yeah... that's how I feel about rebalance.