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Thread: NT's post rebalance.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Manaas View Post
    I do hope NBG and IW combo will be nerfed as well.
    Rofl...

    Anyways, @ the people talking about "3 button" fighting, its VERY easy to avoid by simply going def focus...any half decent NT can use it effectively, another positive to this is that you dont go insta-splat as soon as someone gets close enough to hit you. LEs FTL!
    Im looking forward to nukes having different effects for using in certain situations...cant wait to relearn my whole profession!
    Vitaliy - 220/30 NM NT
    Vitiate - 220/30 Soli Crat
    Paralympics - 220/30 NM Agent
    Vitx - 150/20 Opi Tarder

    Paradise & Parasite

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RedWatr View Post
    that's disappointing to hear. and why would i care about using different dmg types all the sudden, this isn't 02' where you actually find people with AC holes. other than blowing up absorbs, i don't see the need for more than 2 types in pvp, and in pvm that just tells me that I'll be slightly better dmg. where'd the fun go? I could have this all wrong, but you're losing my confidence just when i thought you guys had a plan.
    Somewhat disappointing, but at least there will be a use for LotP now.

    Or maybe they'll do something unthinkably intelligent and add AC holes to the various combined/AI/LE/Jobe armors.

  3. #23

    Funcom employee

    The nanoweaving stuff got dropped for a few reasons, from both an implementation standpoint and a complexity standpoint. Looking at the design we originally had in mind, we ran into issues both in terms of creating all of the nanos needed to pull off the "weave" combinations (*doable*, but it still would have been a few hundred nano-effects) - There was also an issue in *forcing* NTs to cycle through variable damage types to achieve a specific weave effect, something that would have lead to an overwhelming complexity and a need for a *crapload* of hotbars to be set up for the NT. In a game with fewer damage types and less 'base' complexity, it's a great idea; but for NTs to retain their versatility in dealing variable damage types, it just made less and less practical sense as we went forward.

    Now that *said*, what we've come up with is still something different, and contains a bit of the flavour of the original 'weaving' idea. I don't wanna go too far into detail about it at the moment, because the doc's still in the heavy working stages (I've been a bit busy with other stuff/the move, and Genele's been focused on the Doc/Trader documents; we'll get back to cranking on NTs full-time before long, but understand that your sheet *is* one of the ones with the heaviest changes, so it's gonna take some time) - There *is* a unique system incoming for NTs that's different from pretty much anything else in-game, and should be fairly elegant as well; I think it achieves what we wanted with the weaving without going into too much insane complexity while still managing to be an active, entertaining way of utilizing your nuke casts. =)

    For the record, what Masta says is true, both for you guys and for a lot of other professions - There'll be more button pressing, less chatting in the future. Same with the rest of the documents we've put out. With the original weaving stuff, though, the amount of buttons just grew off the charts; the current idea, as stated, keeps a lot of the weaving "flavour", but removes a lot of the complexity that came with it. You'll see what I mean when we release the doc down the road. =D
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  4. #24
    Why not just simplify things? For example, each damage type gets its own nano program at lowbie levels. Like "Ice 1" or "Ice pellet". The damage scales with MC, and is reduced by the target's armor. Now, Ice 1 or Ice pellet or whatever would only be effective up to a certain MC. Just like weapons, there would be a "Maximum beneficial skill" at which point adding on more does nothing. Then you progress to "Ice 2" or "Ice projectile" or whatever, and it begins anew again. Maybe put 25 levels in between each variant. Maybe the NT could have a mirror set of nanos that makes the enemy vulnerable in the same way, but dependant on a different skill than MC. That way the NT can help improve team damage as well.

    Probably thought of before, but maybe not, so just in case, I'm throwing it out there.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    The nanoweaving stuff got dropped for a few reasons, from both an implementation standpoint and a complexity standpoint. Looking at the design we originally had in mind, we ran into issues both in terms of creating all of the nanos needed to pull off the "weave" combinations (*doable*, but it still would have been a few hundred nano-effects) - There was also an issue in *forcing* NTs to cycle through variable damage types to achieve a specific weave effect, something that would have lead to an overwhelming complexity and a need for a *crapload* of hotbars to be set up for the NT. In a game with fewer damage types and less 'base' complexity, it's a great idea; but for NTs to retain their versatility in dealing variable damage types, it just made less and less practical sense as we went forward.

    Now that *said*, what we've come up with is still something different, and contains a bit of the flavour of the original 'weaving' idea. I don't wanna go too far into detail about it at the moment, because the doc's still in the heavy working stages (I've been a bit busy with other stuff/the move, and Genele's been focused on the Doc/Trader documents; we'll get back to cranking on NTs full-time before long, but understand that your sheet *is* one of the ones with the heaviest changes, so it's gonna take some time) - There *is* a unique system incoming for NTs that's different from pretty much anything else in-game, and should be fairly elegant as well; I think it achieves what we wanted with the weaving without going into too much insane complexity while still managing to be an active, entertaining way of utilizing your nuke casts. =)

    For the record, what Masta says is true, both for you guys and for a lot of other professions - There'll be more button pressing, less chatting in the future. Same with the rest of the documents we've put out. With the original weaving stuff, though, the amount of buttons just grew off the charts; the current idea, as stated, keeps a lot of the weaving "flavour", but removes a lot of the complexity that came with it. You'll see what I mean when we release the doc down the road. =D
    looking forward to it. i doubt any of us want to feel like playing our profession is a job, or a chore, so if the weaving issues were too complex, trashing the idea was probably best. I'm not that impressed with the idea of actually having more to do tho, as a def focus NT, i have plenty to do already, my concern is our niche in the game, as a unique profession, so it was good to see you commenting on that regard. right now it looks like docs will be better NT's than us, so whatever you have brewing, i hope it's good <3
    T O O N Z:
    Renamed (jeycihn) 220/30(so sexy, so Borealis...I miss it the most...still melee <3 thnx for all your help Scum!
    Giit 200/30 NM NT(THE most dangerous, and bitchy thing I ever created)
    Sixunder 158/21 NM Tra (158+SMG=Atomic bomb? Feather pillow? meh, depends on what mood she's in oO)
    Eightup 158/21 Opi Fix (perfect, maxed twink, definitive "FUN")
    Xerrrox 17X Opi Fix (GA4 fr00b...buff prostitute...reason to log in)
    Enjey 60/6 NM Eng (high maintenance OP'ness)
    Nanimated New NM Agent (no patience for it...sigh)
    Somethiing 200 Atrox Sold (potential x1k...not nearly enough "give a f*ck")
    P A R A D I S E ~&~ P A R A S I T E ~&~ B R O K E N ~&~ CCI ~&~ NOTHING PERSONAL

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RedWatr View Post
    looking forward to it. i doubt any of us want to feel like playing our profession is a job, or a chore, so if the weaving issues were too complex, trashing the idea was probably best. I'm not that impressed with the idea of actually having more to do tho, as a def focus NT, i have plenty to do already, my concern is our niche in the game, as a unique profession, so it was good to see you commenting on that regard. right now it looks like docs will be better NT's than us, so whatever you have brewing, i hope it's good <3
    Well said.

  7. #27

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWatr View Post
    right now it looks like docs will be better NT's than us, so whatever you have brewing, i hope it's good <3
    haha

    hahahahahahahahahaha

    ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha

    Yeah, no, if you're worried about the nuking toolsets of everybody else don't be. XD You guys are and will always be the kings of nuking - I've got a whole fleet of goodness incoming for y'all. >:D

    Also, speaking of playing as a defensive NT, I'll tentatively say that in terms of defensive power and things to keep track of it should be a bit easier in the future to be defensively focused; you *will*, however, be trading off some damage for a better defense/off-tank build. Pumping as much as you can into Matter Creation will be what gives you maximum damage in the future, and to reach the top tier of nuking abilities you *will* need to twink the crap outta your MC; doing that is going to mean you're not going to be able to boost up your evades/AAD/ect. through gear, perk focusing and the like, however, so be prepared to make the choice between being a defensive mage or the much-fabled "glass cannon" of yore.

    That said, damage done by an NT in a defensive set will be comparable to the amount of damage an NT can currently crank out (a bit less, but not *too* much; you do lose out in PvP some due to the loss of the LE triple/double nukes, but you'll be making up for that with debuffing/protective abilities that you can utilize [and for the record, that stupid "defensive focus/offensive focus" stuff is going the way of the dinosaur ;P]).

    Burst and alpha damage is going to become much more important to the NT in the future. Assuming you're running with a maximum MC setup you *will* be doing stupid crazy damage... you'll also crumple like a wet tissue paper if someone decides to whack on you for more than a few seconds, but you'll be lighting 'em on fire before you go. You'll also be able to relatively safely switch between offense and defense, and will have enhanced tools to act as a "oh crap" button should the big walking pile of rocks suddenly decide to beat you instead of the nice tall meatshield. So playing an NT overall should be a lot more rewarding, with a better focus on letting them actually twink their skills and utilize their full toolset when needed.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  8. #28
    With crazy damage, do you mean more than any other profession? Will NT's be able to be top dd (if they go for the glass cannon" approach)?
    .:: Proud Member of Obsidian Order RK1 ::.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Oaktsam View Post
    Well said.
    That last part wasn't very well said, if I may be so bold
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  10. #30

    Funcom employee

    Quote Originally Posted by Chrazy View Post
    With crazy damage, do you mean more than any other profession? Will NT's be able to be top dd (if they go for the glass cannon" approach)?
    I am *so* not giving you another Blackmane-style quote you people can continue to pull out for years and years to come and plague god only knows who with. ;P

    That said, do I think NTs will be able to be in the top-tier of damage dealers when going for a full MC setup? Yes. I'm not going to make you any grandiose promises of always being #1, but I would be surprised if you weren't typically up there.
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    I am *so* not giving you another Blackmane-style quote you people can continue to pull out for years and years to come and plague god only knows who with. ;P
    So close!! xD
    .:: Proud Member of Obsidian Order RK1 ::.

  12. #32

    Funcom employee

    It *was* a nice try, I'll give you that. =D
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  13. #33
    The good part about scaling with MC is that we can keep up somewhat with future updates to gear that otherwise only benefited weapon users.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    ...
    Also, speaking of playing as a defensive NT, I'll tentatively say that in terms of defensive power and things to keep track of it should be a bit easier in the future to be defensively focused; you *will*, however, be trading off some damage for a better defense/off-tank build. Pumping as much as you can into Matter Creation will be what gives you maximum damage in the future, and to reach the top tier of nuking abilities you *will* need to twink the crap outta your MC; doing that is going to mean you're not going to be able to boost up your evades/AAD/ect. through gear, perk focusing and the like, however, so be prepared to make the choice between being a defensive mage or the much-fabled "glass cannon" of yore.
    ...
    All sound good to me ^^

    My only concern is that after a few years, I've finally found the balance I always wanted between DD/Tankability (from a PVM standpoint here)

    I.e. between the Ai24 DoT, Detonation Matrix, Izgy's Ultimatum and the starfall perks, I can do a decent amount of damage - and take a good few hits resulting from this damage...
    (before even resorting to nullity sphere).

    So take solitus for example (essentially the "Somewhere in the middle" breed), will we still be able to create a Somewhere-in-the-middle sort of setup? Or will we start to see that nanomages are the only viable Offensive breeds, solitus will never master either, and our glorious leader Masta will have no option but to go Defensive? (MC as an attack skill)

    Oh, and for the love of god, please leave us with something like Detonation Matrix ... it's my precious.
    Looking good is nine tenths of the fight.

  15. #35
    We'll have lots of new toys like Detonation Matrix from what I can gather

    Also, isn't it nice to have something new to do?
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  16. #36
    i heard mp's are getting a new cyberdeck with aimedshot built in. confirm/deny?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by CuisinartBlade View Post
    i heard mp's are getting a new cyberdeck with aimedshot built in. confirm/deny?
    Triple AS deck you mean? Anything less and Klod will bring all kinds of ugly upon us.
    .:: Proud Member of Obsidian Order RK1 ::.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    We'll have lots of new toys like Detonation Matrix from what I can gather

    Also, isn't it nice to have something new to do?
    Heh, awesome - and yes, new toys are always fun!

    Wondering also if anyone knows the fate of a few more nanos?

    Nanobot Shelter ( the perma bubble shield )
    Nanobot Shielding/Guard ( the temporary reflect shield and 250% dmg boost)
    (improved) Dark Movement (our evade buff)
    Izgimmer's Wealth (20k nanopool)
    (improved) Fleeting Immunity (absorbs)
    Mastablasta's Cataclysm (and the other short range LE AoEs)
    (always found this kinda ironic as masta f**king hates LE nukes, lol)


    Also, since other professions tend to have buffs for their primary offensive skill (Rifle, Pistol, 1He, and even Mochies, etc) - are NTs likely to get anything along the same lines in keeping with the MC as an offensive skill... or is that all staying on the cyberdeck? And if nukes are now dependant on MC i.e. along the lines of Max Beneficial skill, will the overall installation/casting requirements be lowered so we might still be able to cast while drained below the minimum reqs?


    I know a lot of it's not finalised, and certain things are being kept under wraps- but I'm terribly excited
    Looking good is nine tenths of the fight.

  19. #39

    Funcom employee

    I think I've given out about as much information as I'm comfortable at the moment; there might be a few more tidbits here and there as we gear up toward releasing the document, but for now with things still in the development phase I don't wanna comment on stuff that might yet change before the document goes out.

    I will say that, again, NTs are seeing some of the most sweeping changes, and there will be a lot of new shinies for you guys to play around with once it goes live. Good times ahead. =)
    Brad L. McAtee / Kintaii
    Former Senior AO Designer & Jack of All Trades
    (2007 - 2012)
    ~~ Twitter :: Facebook :: Norse Noir ~~

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastablasta View Post
    That last part wasn't very well said, if I may be so bold
    I should have been more specific. Regarding Doc's becoming nukers and that we don't have a place, i don't agree about that, neither is it very well said. Regarding that we don't see playing as a choir or job, that if nanoweaving did become to complex it was a good idea to let it just go.

    Anyway, i really can't wait any longer for these new stuff.

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