age of evades docs

[Lazy]

looks like all those opi yellow-belt-wearin, css-lookin' as docs were right. with the new nano changes it seems like we're gonna have to prioritize NOT getting hit over OUTHEALING damage. so without further ado,

wtb cs set, 300 dancing king boots, 2x of those 1hb ai shields that add aad.

gonna have to breed change opi for dazzle with delights.

ai perks gonna be something like embrace 10, primary 7 for trickle, secondary 3 for dazzle

perk starfall 10 as well (good cuz i can unperk PM)

also nano doctorate 10 is a must cuz NR1 would be nice to have.

triple implant AAD/Evades and ND wherever possible



and after all that, STILL have the power to kill people because if you're not getting hit you don't have to heal. and if you don't have to heal you can dot and nuke.



there, the new "post-balance" cookiecutter pvp doc. you're welcome.

...

wait a tic.. does anyone have eunucha's evades doc setups? cuz all that up there sounds vaguely familiar...

[Kazeran]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...d.php?t=563823

There you go

However peoples AR really haven't dropped much or at all, so as of now its still not going to work it seems.

[Lazy]

with aimedshot/fa/as locking eachother out you only have to worry about 1 capping special every 11 seconds instead of 3. also, while their AR hasn't dropped much our hp/sec has gone down. also, moving bi's 12 second hp buff into tilc means wecan shed some +hp gear while keeping the same hitpoints and instead wearing more evades armour. ideally i'd like to see our heals castable at fulldef with ~3k nanoinit for this setup to truely shine, but a doc + crat + nt combo would probably be a dangerous combination in bs.

also, the setup in that thread is blank

[Kazeran]

He deleted the setup then.

Evades setup will only work 1v1 though, imo. Not like CB and DH is aoe effects, and i'm not a big fan of having my setup depend on other people.

A different type of passive defense would be better, and I do hope we receive.

[RmikClan]

an evade setup on a tl7 doc will do much worst than and hp setup on most ocasions...no matter how much u think it wont:P.......face for example 1 very good enf , shade or MA with that setup and he will rip you to peaces in a matter of seconds...lower TLs is very different tho...on tl4/tl3 evade docs are uber and get be unperkable to most people

the fact u wont have to deal with with FAs/ASs at the same time give us more reasons to go on a hp setup

and you really think u will land blind with delights on anyone worth to land? think again:P


and dont know what makes u think we wont be able to outheal damage:P...2-3k less healing power on BI wont change much our reality and the nano cost on BI isnt that big

[Gatester]

Considering you will be able to chain a BI, ICH, and BI together over a 4 second period and you are very unlikely to not have a large amount of max health running with these changes, I'd like to see your justification for the opinion that docs will be cannon fodder. Even with the nerfs BI alone outheals any professions DPM, which is just as it is now where only proper alphaing and debuffing have any chance of killing most doctors. Alphas are being nerfed making the ability to kill a doctor rely more on depleting their nano pool probably.

The added ability to actually use offensive nanos in between your healing means that doctors with good nano regain will be rewarded with pvp effectiveness. I believe the conscensus for almost all doctors, including myself, was that we would give up our infinite nano for a mix of offensive and survival capabilities. Although I think the costs in some aspects should be adjusted, such as one DoT line having very low costs compared to others, thinking this is the end of doctors is ridiculous.

[Kazeran]

Considering you will be able to chain a BI, ICH, and BI together over a 4 second period and you are very unlikely to not have a large amount of max health running with these changes, I'd like to see your justification for the opinion that docs will be cannon fodder.

Explain to me what you mean by max health please. BI and all the SL heals are losing the temp hp buff, and they don't refresh until it runs out anyways so bi/ich/bi would be meaningless. Tell me where you see anyone in this thread stating the docs will be cannon folders please.

Even with the nerfs BI alone outheals any professions DPM, which is just as it is now where only proper alphaing and debuffing have any chance of killing most doctors. Alphas are being nerfed making the ability to kill a doctor rely more on depleting their nano pool probably.

Sure love to know where doctors get to only face one person outside of duels.

The added ability to actually use offensive nanos in between your healing means that doctors with good nano regain will be rewarded with pvp effectiveness. I believe the conscensus for almost all doctors, including myself, was that we would give up our infinite nano for a mix of offensive and survival capabilities. Although I think the costs in some aspects should be adjusted, such as one DoT line having very low costs compared to others, thinking this is the end of doctors is ridiculous.

Saying your doctor doesnt run out of nano is simple proof that you do not pvp in a manner where you try to kill anyone or use your toolset to the upmost in pvm. "Docs have endless nano" is such a load of BS, Sure it might be true if you only heal and ubt, but thats using only half of the toolset given to you. Also once again no one said this will be the end of doctors

inb4 paper pvp/#'s telling me I am wrong. Ive had enough of the crap where everyone believes doctors have endless nano.

[XenonDe]

I would wait on doing a evades setup because everything I see in the doc changes would require better landing rate of nanos (more nano skills) and best nano regains (basically keep gear as we have that already) possible.

Especially Wrack and Ruin would be nasty in it's current form for a evade setup taking a whole lot of your casting time and nanopool to sustain.

[Siro]

with aimedshot/fa/as locking eachother out you only have to worry about 1 capping special every 11 seconds instead of 3.

u know aimedshot and as is the same? *g

If u mean sa instead of as I dont know, maybe I am too tired or I cant find a prof which uses all three at once. (microphone does not count ofc )

[Gatester]

Explain to me what you mean by max health please. BI and all the SL heals are losing the temp hp buff, and they don't refresh until it runs out anyways so bi/ich/bi would be meaningless. Tell me where you see anyone in this thread stating the docs will be cannon folders please.

First off, based on Cuisinarts other posts and now this one, it is clear he is getting carried away about how bad doctors have it. If you can't understand that from just a few of his posts then thats your loss.

Now, unless I am mistaken, Team LC only buffs doctor max health by 3000 and the new max health buff is twice as much at just over 6000 max health. Where do you think that max health came from? The original SL heals buffed our max health in an unreliable manner because it did not refresh on us, so having a reliable and 3x longer duration max health buff that also acts as a solid heal means doctors have lost nothing in their own survival AND no longer lose the benefit of that buff in mass pvp. This is also much more convenient for lower doctors, not just you 220's, that are often keeping people alive with CH and not SL heals.

A doctor spamming BI to keep others alive is 3000 max health weaker when he gets attacked and before he can heal himself, this is a simple fact.

Sure love to know where doctors get to only face one person outside of duels.

I've seen what good doctors can do against more than one person, I have pvp'd alongside you, Rmik, Bomba, and others. Do not assume I am referring to only 1 on 1 situations, or do you think even two pvp setups have enough DPM to kill a doctor with 150k healing per minute?

Saying your doctor doesnt run out of nano is simple proof that you do not pvp in a manner where you try to kill anyone or use your toolset to the upmost in pvm. "Docs have endless nano" is such a load of BS, Sure it might be true if you only heal and ubt, but thats using only half of the toolset given to you. Also once again no one said this will be the end of doctors

inb4 paper pvp/#'s telling me I am wrong. Ive had enough of the crap where everyone believes doctors have endless nano.

If you are only healing, you can heal over 100 times before your nano gets low IF your ofab ring does not even proc and you do not use any nano regain at all. If you go offensive you will run out of nano, definately if you are spamming malpractice, but in most team pvp situations why would you do anything other than healing? Are you going to refer to 1 on 1 situations now?

Doctors that are only surviving will not run out of nano against most opponents, so what I said is very true. Doctors not only have the option to go offensive while healing but they do so at a major sacrifice to nano pool. I think the level is extreme but I am sure it will be adjusted.



I think cuisinart is being a little overly negative about doctors and if you cannot see that then thats on you and not me.

[XenonDe]

Now, unless I am mistaken, Team LC only buffs doctor max health by 3000 and the new max health buff is twice as much at just over 6000 max health. Where do you think that max health came from? The original SL heals buffed our max health in an unreliable manner because it did not refresh on us, so having a reliable and 3x longer duration max health buff that also acts as a solid heal means doctors have lost nothing in their own survival AND no longer lose the benefit of that buff in mass pvp. This is also much more convenient for lower doctors, not just you 220's, that are often keeping people alive with CH and not SL heals.

A doctor spamming BI to keep others alive is 3000 max health weaker when he gets attacked and before he can heal himself, this is a simple fact.

I can't quite agree on that. It's true that if a doctor is spamming BI on someone else he lacks 3k HP but if it's raid situation he most likely has either the hp buff on the target meaning he looses 6k hp now or has the hp buff on himself meaning his target is loosing 6k compared to before.

I'm quite happy with the idea of the temp HP buffs moved onto a HP buff but the hp from it was reliable enough. It was just annoying to keep it running when not being attacked.

The duration being increased by a factor of 3 is kinda meh to say when the other part of the HP buff had it's duration decreased by a factor of 10.

If you are only healing, you can heal over 100 times before your nano gets low IF your ofab ring does not even proc and you do not use any nano regain at all. If you go offensive you will run out of nano, definately if you are spamming malpractice, but in most team pvp situations why would you do anything other than healing? Are you going to refer to 1 on 1 situations now?

Doctors that are only surviving will not run out of nano against most opponents, so what I said is very true. Doctors not only have the option to go offensive while healing but they do so at a major sacrifice to nano pool. I think the level is extreme but I am sure it will be adjusted.

Spamming single heals alone certainly won't drain nano. Nano drain on healing is more of a problem in raid situations where you use lots of hots, team heals and ICH and when your team doesn't support you there or the RL didn't grab a nano support prof they deserve to die.

Offense isn't limited to team though and docs aren't limited to team leveling. Soloing is a big part of doctors play, nowadays at pre SL levels even more. As example for some time now docs went the damage route for inf mishs because they aren't needed for anything else. Hopefully the ease of pvm will change in the rebalance but the point remains that docs have a use for their offensive. Ignoring possible itemization docs wouldn't be able to keep their offense running on a target for over 1 minute.


I do agree with the sentiment that extreme whining it premature. It's a draft. It requires feedback. It's not the end of the doctor world.

[Gatester]

I can't quite agree on that. It's true that if a doctor is spamming BI on someone else he lacks 3k HP but if it's raid situation he most likely has either the hp buff on the target meaning he looses 6k hp now or has the hp buff on himself meaning his target is loosing 6k compared to before.

I'm quite happy with the idea of the temp HP buffs moved onto a HP buff but the hp from it was reliable enough. It was just annoying to keep it running when not being attacked.

The duration being increased by a factor of 3 is kinda meh to say when the other part of the HP buff had it's duration decreased by a factor of 10.

It is my personal opinion that if the tank is doing the job he is supposed to then the doctor should not have to worry about the max health buff being on himself. At the very least, the max health buff can even be used on the weaker members of a team like a full out DD shade. There is also nothing stopping multiple doctors from buffing multiple team mates at once.

More or less, I think it makes pvm and raids more dangerous when everyone doesn't have large amounts of health to rely on but could require support professions like engineers or keepers to help them survive instead.

Offense isn't limited to team though and docs aren't limited to team leveling. Soloing is a big part of doctors play, nowadays at pre SL levels even more. As example for some time now docs went the damage route for inf mishs because they aren't needed for anything else. Hopefully the ease of pvm will change in the rebalance but the point remains that docs have a use for their offensive. Ignoring possible itemization docs wouldn't be able to keep their offense running on a target for over 1 minute.

Thats where I have the problem with all offensive nanos having high costs in the docs. At least one DoT line should be very low costs, one line should be average, then the third should be high costs. In this way, the more damage you do will reflect the more nano you wish to spend.

I still remember running through adonis and scheol on my doctor and dieing to spirits that were 60 levels lower because one of their stupid DoTs could prevent me from healing AND do about 3k damage along with my own low damage potential making the prolonged fights hazardous. Tie in the low runspeed and inability to evade mobs in a lot of situations its not pleasant. If this becomes worse post balancing then I will whine as bad as a lot of these other doctors

[Hometown]

Though, I was wondering.. is there any particular reason you mentioned opi blind? I mean wow, a 5% nanoskill debuff will sure hurt alot :P.

Have a nice day.

[RmikClan]

Though, I was wondering.. is there any particular reason you mentioned opi blind? I mean wow, a 5% nanoskill debuff will sure hurt alot :P.

Have a nice day.

read perk balance docs?:P

[Hometown]

read perk balance docs?:P

Oh man, funny that you mention those tho.. it almost feels like I read em a year ago lol.

Edit. Um, ar vs dodge, heh..

Have a nice day.

[XenonDe]

Thats where I have the problem with all offensive nanos having high costs in the docs. At least one DoT line should be very low costs, one line should be average, then the third should be high costs. In this way, the more damage you do will reflect the more nano you wish to spend.

Sadly the offense tools require all 3 dots to be running and mistreatment actually first requires dots and cancels them upon use so in a way you have 2 cheap and 1 super expensive dot. A and B you don't want to use at highest levels for regular damage but use the lowest ql possible of them instead for close to 0 nanocost. That is absolutely wrong. The entire offense change doesn't seem to be in harmony. Speacial that require all dots to land. Dots with nanocosts that make it more cost effective to use the lowest QL. Specials that cancel those dots. Super short duration on one dot that is required for adequate specials and super costly nuke. Special effect nukes with ultra short durations clashing with other short term buffs / dots / nukes to upkeep.

I welcome many changes and many nerfs. They don't seem in harmony with each other though.

[doctorzoidbyrg]

maybe im wrong but i see doctors becoming more caster oriented.

tank/mage archetype seems appropriate here

[Hellrule]

I love how the doc professional is pretending doc's are gonna have healing issues. No more full auto/aimed shot at the same time is the biggest saving grace to docs. BI only has 250 more nano cost, can spam 3 heals quickly in a pinch, and more nano regain to boot.


Also the amount of damage a doc can do in 10 seconds, with 3 dots, malp, and le nuke is insane. ANd before you say doc's have no nano, protip. Wait for ring doc, use your nano regain, and enjoy your alpha. Doc rebalance in a nutshell.

[XenonDe]

inb4 paper pvp/#'s telling me I am wrong.

I love how the doc professional is pretending doc's are gonna have healing issues. No more full auto/aimed shot at the same time is the biggest saving grace to docs. BI only has 250 more nano cost, can spam 3 heals quickly in a pinch, and more nano regain to boot.

I don't even see him saying that anywhere in this thread.

[Kazeran]

I love how the doc professional is pretending doc's are gonna have healing issues. No more full auto/aimed shot at the same time is the biggest saving grace to docs. BI only has 250 more nano cost, can spam 3 heals quickly in a pinch, and more nano regain to boot.


Also the amount of damage a doc can do in 10 seconds, with 3 dots, malp, and le nuke is insane. ANd before you say doc's have no nano, protip. Wait for ring doc, use your nano regain, and enjoy your alpha. Doc rebalance in a nutshell.

Daww The doc professional, you make it sound like I am the only one. Don't believe I ever said we would have issues just healing, in any thread. Thats great that we wont have AS/FA combo to worry about from 1 person, that nerf helps us very little in mass pvp though. Already said we should be ok while just healing/ubting its us trying to damage and keep ourselves alive that will eat our nano more then it should.

The amount of times the doctor has to spam the dots to get them all to land on the target and hope malp lands while C line dot is still running is insane sorry to say but 3/4 of those nanos already get resisted regularly, thats the problem. (inb4 the NR nuke that has 100% MC att and 100% def that last 11s)

Also when you say ring doc, and you mean the doc ring proc and mean something like: "lets wait and hope our ring proc goes off so we can attempted to use our full offensive toolset to kill someone!" get out of my cave now.