I love all the changes.. including the + nanocost ...only ONE think i dont like is the HP buff.. would love to change it to aura like soldier reflect ..
I love all the changes.. including the + nanocost ...only ONE think i dont like is the HP buff.. would love to change it to aura like soldier reflect ..
Vespersk 220/70/30 Sol
Runordie 220/50/23 Enf
Piskotka 220/50/21 Adv
Vesperagent 170/40/19 Agent
Arpi 150/30/9 Adv
Taishasdoc220/70/25 Doc
Bebop10 170/full/full Sol 300 ofab on
Hoboblaster 200/full/XX Crat for S7 in progress
Bummer. Thank you.Originally Posted by Kazeran
Deadly Whisper - RK1
too many alts for to little space
There goes my doc. Looks like only NM docs will be effective breed. Why make the HoTs last only 25 seconds? Why not just make them a heal with a 25 second recharge? As of now I use deathless blessing and the 3 minute duration is annoying but I can stand it because it is really helpful. Reducing the time to 25 seconds just makes it completely useless.
I guess I will just have to level my other toons now, I will miss you sweet doc.
So, now that I had the time to look at it longer and think about it let's try some constructive feedback and my thoughts on each nanoline. I considered making a thread where we each post our personal thoughts on the lines and try to keep it tidy and clean from arguments for the devs but saw kaz asked for this thread to be used for feedback so....I pass the ball to you. Feel free to split it from this post for such a thread.
Moved to own Thread! -> Linky
Totally Subjective feedback on each Nanoline
Init Debuffs: 186
I don't quite understand the change to make the unbreakable debuffs breakable. All they needed was better description so new players know right away which are breakable and which aren't. The lowered duration would have been enough to prevent pet abuse.
Slight init debuff increase on UBT not really making a difference. Surprised it has a higher stacking order then the crat debuffs.
The duration change could be better resolved imo. I would have prefered different durations for pvm and pvp. say 45s pvp and up to 2 minutes pvm. Too many tools of docs getting shorted duration already and having to recast ubt (on multiple mobs) that often is adding to that in pvm.
New Line: Special Effect Nuke
I don't see much use to it. Call it Gimmick Effect Nuke instead. Wrack and Ruins had it's use for specialized evade builds but that was also due to it having a longer duration. With so many other short duration buffs/debuffs to keep running and the cooldown being just faster then the duration a 11 second duration on a defense debuff doesn't cut it.
The Nanoresist debuff has some better use but it also suffers from the 10s duration/11 duration crap. Also it comes with a 100% NR check which makes it harder to land then the new C line dot which it would be supposed to help landing.
New Epsilon purge... Imo still trash the idea for docs and fixers or reduce it to <5 NCU so it only affects dof/cocoon and some auras. All the new OSBs with 4h duration will make pvp even more dependant on OSBs and removing some of these just sucks and imo will get more hate to us then benefits.
The damage of each nuke is lolworthy. Bit too much Micromanagement.
New Line: Base Nuke
The name is misleading. Base suggests being used as a stable basis for damage and these nukes certainly aren't going to be used as a damage base. The nanocosts are way to high to be spammed and with those costs it's not effective to use them when the target isn't under triple dot. At most you get out 2 nukes before you have to refresh the C line dot at least and coupled with the perks that cancel dots and the nanodrain they have to be used very carefully.
They also clash badly with the mistreatment perk that cancels dots and if you wanna use them heavily they encourage using the lowest QL A and B dot to conserve nano.
DOT line A: 6 & DOT Line B: 7
Slightly reduced cast times and removal of the cast time cap is nice. Reduces on the annoyance factor. I don't really get the reason to increase the damage but add 1 second to the tick time. The resulting dps and total damage are about the same so the 3s tick rate instead of 2 was the only reason?
I'm assuming the slight decrease in nanocost is to encourage using high ql A and B line dots instead of the lower level counterparts but with the huge nanocosts on everything else and the heavy reliance on keeping dots up and dots being canceled by damage perks it's imo not enough to encourage using high ql A/B line dots outside of multiple mobs enviroment... A scenario where the A and B line would still do worse then they do now.
DOT Line C: 582
New Line: LE Nemesis Nanoprograms
Making the C line PVP dot available in pvp and changing the entire line to be a short term, fast damage while maintaining same total damage dot is a good idea. Doubling the nanocost of the old pvp dot or when compared to the old C line dot more then doubling the cost is a bit overkill imo. Remember that we have to cast it every 10 seconds to use the base nuke effectively and to use doctor perks. 3820 Nano every 10 seconds is a WHOLE lot even with 50% NCR. And it's not the only high nanocost nano that has to be refreshed every few seconds.
Especially when coupled with the Base Nuke which requires the C line dot to be remotely efficient the nanodrain is HUGE. And that's on top of high nanocosting heals.
This is also another nano that clashes badly with the doc perks because you really don't want to use a 3820 Nanocost nano to use a perk that instantly removes it.
In multi mob scenarios this nano also does a lot worse then previously doing same damage over time for waaaaay higher cost but seeing as the A and B dot alone are usually hard enough to keep running on 3+ mobs on their own I'd say it doesn't matter and better single target damage is a good trade off.
Complete Heal: 282
Changing the CH to Local Cooldowns is a good change imo. The Change to % based heals for the Improved CH/A&O is intriguing. How will Heal eff debuffs affect % based healing? Say the soldiers -100% heal eff debuff (ignoring RI - just for reference).
The updated regular heals may make up for the loss of "fast" CH at TL5.. remains to be seen.
New Line: Single Target Heal
Sl heals - 40% Cutdown in Healing Power and 30% increase in Nanocosts. No big surprises here.
Bit annoyed the cast times haven't been changed and still prevent full def usage. Us full def docs curently rely on the 216 heal to have speed and more or less enough healing to keep us alive. With the nerf on healing power that won't cut it anymore so we moved even further from away full def capabilities with this change.
The added in between heals are good imo. Quite powerfull actually.. 2100-2520 is really a lot pre tl7. Well pvm wise at least.. in pvp it has to offset the loss of CH. But I can imagine it working well.
New Line: Team Heal
Holy Moly Nanocosts! Removing HP buff (Team LC) alltogether and removing team hots to keep team members topped up / alive will force us to use the team heals more often. And instead of increasing it by 30% like single target heals the Nanocosts are more then quadrupled? I understand the intend of making them cost more then single target heals but that's a bit overkill.
Short Term HOT Line: 12
Quick High Yield Hot. Useful to cast in anticipation of incoming damage. I like the idea.
I don't quite like loosing team hots alltogether for it though as healing over time is the only passive defense docs have and changing every hot altogether turns that part of our passive defenses into a quite active part again. It's also yet another timer to micromanage on our short short short duration buff/debuffs/dots and yet another big nanodrain to keep going.
With only 25s duration they at least won't screw up lowbie pvp too much with 0 NCU cost and no level locks. Scaling needs to be adjusted too somewhat as there are no level locks on them at all and they are cast able quite early. (TL5 and 7 using same nano?)
Doctor Temporary Health Buffs: 185
The HP buff from our heals moved onto Life channeler and Life Channeler in turn turned into a 1 Person only buff with short duration and added nanodrain. I don't like it. Doctors were more then just healers it was about maximizing the teams chance of survival. Team HP buffs were a part of it and even the old LC was cast able on multiple team members and I regularly did so before Team LC. For many AoE Nukes encounters it was a elementary part of the raid too.
Also the recharge really needs to be faster then the duration. If you only want it on one target then make it recharge 60s duration 70s at least so you don't have to stop doing anything and wait for the countdown to reach zero to prevent sitting there without your 6k extra HP.
Health Buff And HoT Combo*
*shrug* I would have preferred it to be an Aura. This is also the chance to increase the HP the team can be buffed again after removing TLC so I'd like to see an increase in the HP here. Take it from the Temporary HP buff if you have too. Again... this helps on the passive defense which we are lacking.
Heal Delta Buffs: 203
*shrug*
Nano Resist Buffs: 204
NR shifted from Self init buff to NR buff ..Why? Why remove the NR from the self buff and add it to the Target cast able buff? Don't we have enough NR stuff and powerfull OSBs in the game? Why make it even better?
The increase in NCU is to offset the temp HP and Hot not using NCU anymore I take it?
Initiative Buffs: 152
Loss of nano whatever. Loss of NR... See comment on NR buff.
The increase in NCU is to offset the temp HP and Hot not using NCU anymore I take it?
Divest and Plunder Resistance: 287
The old vaccines were mostly useless but turning it into a 4h buff? I really hate meeting traders but % based resistances really are a bad thing in this game. But in the long run this will be more helpful for soling pocketbosses then against traders.
New Line: Emergency Nano Regain
Funky Gimick. Will be hated in duels.
Fear Resist and Reduction: 901
Still utterly useless.
Strength Buffs: 156 & New Line: Stamina Buffs
Again why? For the sake of changing things? Were the addional 20 Stamina you could get on top of behe really too much? I will enjoy not having to team people anymore though!
Treatment and First Aid Buffs: 190
4h Duration! Yey! Great!
New Line: Grid
30s Grid. Oh fixers are gonna love this.
Resume
There's a lot of Micromanagement in these changes. Handling the debuffs and dots (60s/30s/30s/10s) timers and refreshing accordingly using the base nukes in the 10s duration the C line is running as well as timing the perks to fire in between and preferably not cancel the dots before their time is nearing its end (again C line dot) while keeping track of the 60s timer on your hp buff and refreshing your hots every 25s as well as keeping track the HP bars and using heals/teamheals plus possibly keeping track of the timers on the CH / Heal perks / items...
Doc always has been a highly micromanagement and attention intensive profession... even my shade plays relaxing in comparison. I don't really know if we want more micro management on our toolsets. I thought one idea in the balance was to cut down on the micro management with all the buffs getting a 4h duration now.
Secondly I'm surprised that not only the heals gotten the nanocost increase but the offense also gotten a huge increase in their nanocosts. It's not like we didn't run out of nano dotting (or nuking in pvp) before. Dotting mutiple mobs at once is gonna be a thing of the past with these changes. Versatility was a strength of docs. Looking at these changes, their nano cost and their even heavier reliance on landing stuff quickly I see more and more reasons to play nanomage or loose. The lower overall nanopool and NCR will hurt soli and Opi already and trox even worse.
Last but not least... There is a heavier focus on Nanocasting in these documents now. Pushing docs to more casting (not the castbar we were in nanorecharge 100% anyway but the reliance on it) is fine. But 2 main problems from our concern list that directly relate to nano casting haven't been adressed. We lack Nano AR to land staff reliably and the 10s nuke isn't viable in the current state. We lack the full def capabilities to resist being shut down from casting.
Last edited by XenonDe; Jan 15th, 2011 at 19:52:14.
Deadly Whisper - RK1
too many alts for to little space
If you wish to make a new thread for feedback thats broken down such as yours go ahead, i just want to keep the less organized discussion into this thread
...And so he passes the ball back to me.
Just thinking it's hard for the devs to sort through our 10 pages of ranting to look for feedback but new thread only makes sense if more people post their views.
Deadly Whisper - RK1
too many alts for to little space
A lot of changes. Seems one has to learn to play almost from scratch... :P
Proud Member of The Roots ----- Neut 4 Ever!! ----- Oh, btw: Here's The Story of Stuff & the Most Terrifying Video You'll Ever See.
My goons: Luzengie 220/30/70 engie ----- Luziciona 220/30/70 MA ----- Luzolja 220/30/70 Sold ----- Fixxii 220/30/70 Fix ----- Nerfentehs 200/29/62 NT ----- Luztrox 200/30/68 Doc ----- Luzargh 199/22 Shade ----- Keepluzia 174/24 Keep ----- Luzidoxa 150/20 Doc ----- Luzee 150/10 Shade ----- Bancorotta 150/20 MA ----- Luzillian & Luzimeta 60/6 MPs ----- Luzibank 45/5 Enfo ----- Luztrader 32/3 Trader
I have 1 comment :
Put down the Ao servers and never bring them back up again ...
Theres always something someone has to cry about
I'm also quite curious if i should reroll my 202 doc, as he is a soli, and will seemingly be nearly worthless in hard raids with the nanocost changes.
Is NM gonna be the only way to go for a raid focused doc? Or are they planning to make some breed adjustments as well?
Limdul - Shade / Sammybear - Doctor / Swakhammer - Enforcer / Puriel - Fixer / Kalutika - Nano Technician / Tengen - Adventurer
Supposedly rebalance will include a breed change for existing toons, so if you feel your chosen breed is beyond help, you can at least switch without rerolling.
I'm guessing it will be a $50-100 service fee? lol
Atleast it will be an option though :P
Limdul - Shade / Sammybear - Doctor / Swakhammer - Enforcer / Puriel - Fixer / Kalutika - Nano Technician / Tengen - Adventurer
Given price of IPR points, and considering that even new social toys like Reindeer Hed are now going ITEMSHOP only (at Christmas, no less), this is probably correct.
I can live with paying to change breed cus my current breed might end up being crappy, but please dont keep NM's so dern ugly. I dont want to play an ugly doc lol.
Limdul - Shade / Sammybear - Doctor / Swakhammer - Enforcer / Puriel - Fixer / Kalutika - Nano Technician / Tengen - Adventurer
I think we're more similar than you think actually. We both find that focus'ing on pure doctor'ing right now gets really boring. I chose to alt-tab to chat with people, you chose to alt-tab to play another character. With these changes, we might alt-tab less. My social life will suffer while I'm grinding and you might not be able to effectively play 2 characters, but we'll both be focus'ing more on our (presumably for you) main character class. This sounds like fun to me.
I was thinking the same thing. For those of us who were high level in the CH order days, AO became very easy for doctors after SL came out. I really do miss having a "doctor team" in raids and coordinating strategies with people. This won't bring back the extreme-reliance on other people to fulfill their CH roles, but it will bring some more teamwork back which I feel has been very lacking in the game recently.
I miss there being 10x more players in game. Those days are not coming back, ever. If FC does a good job, they can maintain, but it's never going to be 2002 again no matter what they do. Thinking they can make raids "bigger" by making it impossible for single teams, six-loggers, quad-loggers, or pairs and trios of toons to do content is just fantasy. You can't force teaming when there just aren't people around to team. You can, however, force people to leave the game because they can't get anything fun accomplished anymore with just a small team of their friends.
And honestly, really, what is making docs dependent on any particular other prof in order to function in a team setting going to do? It's going to turn dual-loggers into quad-loggers, and quad-loggers into six-loggers, and that's it. So now your pocket doc heal pet needs his own pocket trader/MP/NT nano pet. That's not making anything more fun for anyone.
I've been reading comments on the forums about the changes to the doctor nanos and maybe I'm a bit too full of myself but personally I feel like it won't matter.. whatever changes they make to our nanolines.. I'll still be an excellent doctor in the end. This is Anarchy Online.. we thrive on overcoming challenges, customizing our characters and twinking to be the best. I'm not sure what the big deal is.. especially since we can't actually see how these changes will work in a team/raid or heck in any environment at this point
If nothing else, this might give me that 'new toy' feeling when the rebalancing happens.. if I get to go back to the drawing board and adjust some of my doc's gear and maybe change my strategy then that's a good thing. As things are now.. playing my doctor is rather boring.. especialy in a team/raid environment where.. with the overpowerednesss of my heals plus everyone else being OP.. I usually only have to hit the team heal here and there and can normally spend the rest of the time debuffing, dotting and hitting weapons specials. If I want to play a DD profession vs a healer then there are other toons on my account I log. As it stands now my doctor heals some and basically is a 2nd rate damage dealer outside of that.
Aside from the ICH, DB team heals, TDB and TLC doctors heals haven't changed, everyone else just got better but everyone blames doctors for the ease of pvm. Imo at least.
I didn't blame doctors.. I said OP heals and everyone else being OP.. that is me saying that everyone is OP at this point in comparison to the existing content and years past. I'm not sure how you read anything else into my statements. And the reality of the situation, at least from my vantage point, is that you can do a heck of a lot without a doctor these days. So anyone blaming doctors for the ease of pvm is apparently unaware of the abilities of other professions and thus not worth the time to even discuss
I've been playing a doctor since 2004 and while that isn't as long as some of the people on this board that is quite a long time. Healing is easier for "whatever" reason you want to name. Rebalancing isn't just about doctors but happening to all professions so there really is no way to intelligently know how these changes will specifically effect doctors until we test them out alongside other professions.
I am eager to get on a test server and see how these things work and then I can give some solid input on how I feel about the changes. Until then.. its nice to see the general direction but I don't think the devs (or whoever) should make any adjustments to these docs based soley on chatter on the forums (unless there are people here that have access to test these nanos and I'm just not aware).
Last edited by Traderjill; Jan 16th, 2011 at 00:02:06.
Not that I entirely disagree but that "chatter" is the sole reason they are posting those balance drafts - Drafts... because that's what they are - for feedback. Obviously some whining and ranting isn't going to help but from what I understand constructive feedback it wanted and required. It'll be a long time until any of these changes appear first on the test server so any talking about it both from fan as from FCs side is purely theoretical for now.
Deadly Whisper - RK1
too many alts for to little space
I didn't mean anything particularly offensive unless you are referring to the complaint about casting one buff every 60 seconds being inconvenient. My doctor will be using these nanos as well, and I find the fact that I will only need to focus on one health buff reserved for the tank or myself (maybe even someone at a high level of risk like the mezzer in collector?) as a large convenience.
I think we can all agree that AO's pvm is rather easy and all of us have been spoiled by a system where everyone takes their toolset for granted. Enf's spam mongo endlessly, doctor's spam a heal, everyone /assist and press 1234 and the raid eventually finishes. If making people think in pvm causes them to quit then I say good riddance.
Remove enforcer and soldier "other" health buffs then as well. I doubt you could get that to happen but I would support it because I think the concept that everyone should have levels of health and damage mitigation that allows them to tank, rather than simply making a single tank better, is foolish and part of what makes our PVM system a joke.
So while it is just my opinion, it is a reason to remove the team aspect of massive health boosts and FC may be thinking along those same lines. It is too easy to survive when everyone has 30% reflects, +10000 max health and +700ish def rating. There will be emergency team heals, absorbs, blockers, and possibly other tools that players will have to find the opportunity to use rather than making everyone comfortable in pvm with these huge static survival buffers.
Init debuffs, evades, then heals. Init debuffs make bosses pathetic to the point where I do not need a doctor for most single encounters, these have taken a massive nerf. Evades make adds meaningless to kill and I think my enforcer gets around the 3500 def mark in a perfect team, all I have seen here are boosts for evaders.
Heals are simply at the point where you can do more healing per minute than monsters do damage per minute, however the only way to fix this is if our tanks are in fact the only professions capable of handling the damage bosses or several adds can do. If you only nerf heals then it just means professions like advy, shades, and MA that avoid most of their damage will continue to surpass enforcers and soldiers as single tanks.
Btw, will the complete heals still have the massive SL agg? Because if they lose that then I think that will be a massive boost for leveling doctors and something I would have appreciated while leveling on hecklers lol.
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