Dr. Nano Doc

[blingoutyourdead]

And that's the problem I'm talking about .. you seem to think that it's reasonable to have these HoTs a perpetual effects as long as you can maintain the nano, effectively giving you a passive heal. I don't think that has every been or will be the approach for AO. If you look at the other documents for casters, it's apparent that we will be very active in casting and that is ... what makes the game fun and distinguishes good players from bad ones.

This is especially daft coming from a soldier, given that your "passive reflects" and "passive dmg boost" are the primary buffs you bring to a team. When you're happy spamming your team reflects and damage buffs every 25 seconds, then I'll be happy spamming my team HOT. "Passive healing" is no different from "passive fear counter" or "passive nano regain" or "passive" anything else. The entire keeper toolset, and large parts of those for crats, traders, and other profs is "passive" and therefore against the spirit of AO by your logic.

Docs will stay plenty busy casting single heals, team heals, init debuffs, and DOTs, in the current game, and after the rebalance. We don't need another key to mash every 25 seconds just to refresh something that is, in fact, designed to provide a "passive," team-wide HP recovery benefit for having a doc in team. And like I said, I'm even asking for a constant (reasonable) nanodrain on it, so it doesn't seem unbalanced against the cast-once auras that non-casting classes have. In the end, the only real difference between "passive" and "active" in what I'm talking about is that you get the same cost and same benefits, without sitting there wearing out one key on the keyboard hour after hour.

[Kazeran]

And that's the problem I'm talking about .. you seem to think that it's reasonable to have these HoTs as perpetual effects to mimic auras ... If FC wanted docs to have heal auras, you would have seen them in the nano document. I personally don't think it makes much sense for an active healing class to have strong passive heals. I don't think that has every been or will be the approach for AO. If you look at the other documents for casters, it's apparent that we will be very active in casting and that is ... what makes the game fun and distinguishes good players from bad ones.

Doctors still have no passive defense and thats what we want. Every other casting class is a at least a simi evade class. Doctors dont even have evades lol

[Nab2000]

I see absolutely nothing that was asked for. Increased nanocost and faster grid, plus rearranging nanos is what we get? Time&Space on Epsilon Purge... So instead of one nanoskill we don't touch, we get another?

[drainbamage]

This is especially daft coming from a soldier, given that your "passive reflects" and "passive dmg boost" are the primary buffs you bring to a team. When you're happy spamming your team reflects and damage buffs every 25 seconds, then I'll be happy spamming my team HOT. "Passive healing" is no different from "passive fear counter" or "passive nano regain" or "passive" anything else. The entire keeper toolset, and large parts of those for crats, traders, and other profs is "passive" and therefore against the spirit of AO by your logic. Docs will stay plenty busy casting single heals, team heals, init debuffs, and DOTs, in the current game, and after the rebalance. We don't need another key to mash every 25 seconds just to refresh something that is, in fact, designed to provide a "passive," team-wide HP recovery benefit for having a doc in team. And like I said, I'm even asking for a constant nanodrain on it, so it doesn't seem unbalanced against the cast-once auras that non-casting classes have. In the end, the only real difference between "passive" and "active" in what I'm talking about is that you get the same cost and same benefits, without sitting there wearing out one key on the keyboard hour after hour.

A soldiers primary job is to either tank or deal damage. Reflects, while highly desirable (perhaps too desirable), are a secondary feature.

Likewise, a doctors job is to heal, and they should have to be actively involved in order to do so.

And really, having to recast a HOT every 25 seconds is hardly spamming.

[blingoutyourdead]

And really, having to recast a HOT every 25 seconds is hardly spamming.

And really, pressing 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2 every 25 seconds is hardly "being active."

[blingoutyourdead]

And really, having to recast a HOT every 25 seconds is hardly spamming.

I expect fixers will also be spamming their HOTs three times a minute, and crats can refresh xp and regain auras constantly, and traders can spam umbral wrangle too. Then we can all be more "active."

[Traderjill]

Haven't read any of the comments here but just wanted to say THANK YOU to Kazeran for posting a summary of the changes. I opend that Excel file of pinkness and got annoyed and closed it

[drainbamage]

And really, pressing 2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2 every 25 seconds is hardly "being active."

If that's all you'd be doing then I don't think docs were nerfed enough

I expect fixers will also be spamming their HOTs three times a minute, and crats can refresh xp and regain auras constantly, and traders can spam umbral wrangle too. Then we can all be more "active."

All of those professions have roles other than buffing.

[Kazeran]

A soldiers primary job is to either tank or deal damage. Reflects, while highly desirable (perhaps too desirable), are a secondary feature.

Likewise, a doctors job is to heal, and they should have to be actively involved in order to do so.

And really, having to recast a HOT every 25 seconds is hardly spamming.

I don't believe we are asking for hot to be refreshed on everyone just ourselves so we have a (pathetic) form of passive defense.

If that's all you'd be doing then I don't think docs were nerfed enough

All of those professions have roles other than buffing.

Please read the first post about being constructive instead of making crap posts like this one.

well seeing how u changed the post before i finished I suppose its better then it was, Also a doctors roll is not to buff, so your incorrect there as well.

[drainbamage]

I don't believe we are asking for hot to be refreshed on everyone just ourselves so we have a (pathetic) form of passive defense.

I didn't see that. My understanding is that the person I was replying to wanted a "heal aura".

well seeing how u changed the post before i finished I suppose its better then it was, Also a doctors roll is not to buff, so your incorrect there as well.

I didn't say it was a doctors role to buff. I said it was to heal.

[blingoutyourdead]

I don't believe we are asking for hot to be refreshed on everyone just ourselves so we have a (pathetic) form of passive defense.

No, I'm definitely saying that all of our team HOTs should (1) function as long-running auras that we recast at most once every four-hours; (2) have AOE effect; (3) deliver an amount of healing that scales with the level of the target, to avoid being OP on low toons; and (4) include a reasonable nanodrain while they run, to account for the fact that they will be providing significant constant healing.

It's all about avoiding senseless key mashing, spamming, and recasting of things which ought to rather provide a passive, always-on benefit to having the toon in a team or raid. That seems much, much more the way that buffs have been heading in AO with all other profs, and I'm just proposing that they take the same sensible approach with us as they already have with keepers, crats, traders, soldiers, and others.

In other words, it's the same as TDB is now, just without the constant button mashing, and with somewhat expanded and appropriately scaled effect.

[Mekh]

All of those professions have roles other than buffing.

And doctors have other roles than healing...

Right here in this forum:

Physical manipulation, to heal or to harm

In the Game Guide:

A Doctor is really a biotechnology specialist. The Doctors' prime skills focus
mainly on healing and protecting but they also learn how to produce and
administer powerful bio toxins that slow, weaken and wear down their
opponents.

[drainbamage]

And doctors have other roles than healing...

Their primary role is to heal. Automating that role should be avoided.

[Kazeran]

Their primary role is to heal. Automating that role should be avoided.

And we agree with you, we just want a passive defense of some type

[Vaurt]

Their primary role is to heal. Automating that role should be avoided.

Not sure that a 160 hps nano could quite be classed as automating the primary role of doctors

For every person that you wish to give this heal to (up to a maximum of 5people at a time) you must spend 1/25th of your time casting this HoT....

So if you want your team to have hots constantly you would have to cast this every 5 seconds for a nano that is by definition passive.... so you either use that time to heal ur team for 160hps, or u can use that time and cast the primary heals for 1692 hps....i can say with confidence if these HoT's go through i will not be using them purely because they're not worth the time, they're so not worth the time there's no point in having them ingame in my mind. The Short HP buffs will be incredibly annoying, but livable however it would be a lot better to have an few seconds less cooldown to be able to recast it before the tank looses 6k max hp

From the aura point of view i'm not convinced, as nice as it would be, this would make the doc and keeper professions collide a bit, also i don't really want to be digging around in my NCU to cancel the aura whenever i run out of nano, which is gunna happen a lot without significantly better Nano management tools, I agree with the post made before by Mekh from the you wouldn't make all other professions only able to attack if they had enough 'energy' 'stamina' etc, this would be verging on a turn based system of waiting for your energy to replenish before you can use your next attack so why should nano casting professions suffer this same consequence. I myself will mourn the time when i can nolonger chain BI (instacast) 206 times before loosing nano (even tho the only use for that is....erm...well i find its only what my PvM doc does in BS until it gets stunned.)

If we were to keep the 25 second duration on the HoT's it should be cast on everyone in the raid, or everyone in the team at the least. Otherwise a 5min timer for single targets (reducing the heal amount maybe) would be much more suitable

On a rather different note after running the numbers , if you only cast DoT's and nukes (turning into an NT) a doc can achieve 3356.6 damage per second however on a nanomage at full -nanocost it will require 16732 nano per 30 second cycle, which works out at 557.7 nano per second which will be fun to do....quite possibly impossible including all outside buffs from nt's and traders and the like

[blingoutyourdead]

From the aura point of view i'm not convinced, as nice as it would be, this would make the doc and keeper professions collide a bit

TDB, which is our 215 improved HoT, does thankfully cast on the whole team and require only 1 NCU on others (though it takes the full NCU allocation on the doc casting it), so it's basically an aura already, just without the auto refresh. I understand that a doc-level heal needs to have significant nano cost associated with it, which might seem to justify making it run for a short time and have to be recast. But a modest nano drain on the doc running it, proportional to the healing it provides, would cover that.

With it's current run time, TDB is just on the verge of annoying to recast all the time, and chopping it to 25 seconds is the opposite of progress. Our HoTs also won't be stepping on any keeper's toes, since they ought to, and do, provide a far higher level of healing. There's no reason for healers not to have the benefit of improved team nano mechanics the same as all other profs have now. As stated above, other casting profs like crats, traders, keepers, and even MPs and NTs have gotten the benefit of better thinking about nano casting mechanics in their more recent team buffs; now we should as well.

[Ophiuchus]

Oop yeah, that was a brainfart on the 'nanocost' for IC/Enlarge. I meant the NCU needed of course

And the 20sec CH cooldown for froob docs that lack the alternative emergency options of expansion docs was a major concern.

I still want to check that I read the old/new nanocost for Team Health Plan right at 175/1311 because that's about 7.5 times more nano for only around 2 times the heal amount. I can't see how my froob doc will find enough nano to use that as any more than an emergency OHCRAP button rather than a regularly used heal.

[Gatester]

Target only tank buff is fine, but the 60 second duration is nothing but annoying for that use. At least make it last the same as every other prof's target HP buffs, if this is all we're gonna get from it. If micro-duration HP buff is the intent, then take this whole line out, restore the temp HP to the SL heals, and make those last 60 seconds instead of 10. At least then it would make some sort of sense. I have never used the RK buffs in this line at all, because just spamming a few more single or team heals in the same amount of time was always more efficient.

If it was 5 minute duration it would need a 5 minute cooldown to prevent several people from being buffed. If it was attached to regular heals you would be back at the 10 second duration. Being too lazy to cast this buff once every minute (you should try enforcers) is a poor excuse for making the nano work as a tank or self only major health boost as it should be rather than everyone gaining large amounts of health.

Besides, I figured most docs were sick of having to spam a heal every 10 seconds to maintain the levels of health this buff does every 60.



I'd also like to say that just because the tool is available to your profession does not mean your profession should have an easy time using it or spamming it at your leisure. Most games have short burst or very tiring toolsets and all of you have been a little too spoiled by AO's rather easy PVM system. Although an emergency nano that gives the doctor 100% of his max nano and 50% of his max health back every 300 seconds when he actually runs out of nano...I'm still not sure doctor's will be seeing too much trouble when they actually try to manage nano pool.

[Kazeran]

Oop yeah, that was a brainfart on the 'nanocost' for IC/Enlarge. I meant the NCU needed of course

And the 20sec CH cooldown for froob docs that lack the alternative emergency options of expansion docs was a major concern.

I still want to check that I read the old/new nanocost for Team Health Plan right at 175/1311 because that's about 7.5 times more nano for only around 2 times the heal amount. I can't see how my froob doc will find enough nano to use that as any more than an emergency OHCRAP button rather than a regularly used heal.

I have already added both the IC/enlarge concern as well as the CH one to the 1st page under concerns and will see what can be done about those.

You are also correct about the nano costs for team health plan. 7.4 X the original cost is a rather large increase to be polite about it. All the profs are aware at that huge nano cost for team heals and is something we are seeing what can be done about it as far as flexibility for nano cost goes.

I'd also like to say that just because the tool is available to your profession does not mean your profession should have an easy time using it or spamming it at your leisure. Most games have short burst or very tiring toolsets and all of you have been a little too spoiled by AO's rather easy PVM system.

Did someone say enfs spamming mongo or layers or rage anyone? Please do not attempted to put yourself above others as it seems you are trying to do (its in bold, please do choose your words carefully when talking about such a subject as it leads to trolling and I want none of it in this thread, if you must take it to PMs).

[blingoutyourdead]

If it was 5 minute duration it would need a 5 minute cooldown to prevent several people from being buffed. If it was attached to regular heals you would be back at the 10 second duration. Being too lazy to cast this buff once every minute (you should try enforcers) is a poor excuse for making the nano work as a tank or self only major health boost as it should be rather than everyone gaining large amounts of health. Besides, I figured most docs were sick of having to spam a heal every 10 seconds to maintain the levels of health this buff does every 60.

This is just incoherent, and there is no reason to "prevent several people from being buffed." There is no such lockout on enfo or soldier HP buffs. The team buff we had worked fine and wasn't in need of balance as it was (though making it run longer would have been a welcome change, so we could stop spamming the stupid thing). This buff is supposed to "replace" that buff, but instead it's just retarded and useless. It was also retarded that the short HP buff was our best team heal, so it's a sensible move to change that.

If this is meant to be a single target HP buff, then remove the heal from it, give it an appropriate value, whatever they think that is, and make it last the same time as all the other profs' single target HP buffs (i.e. two hours or more). If it's meant to be a short term, temporary HP boost, then attach it to a heal (i.e., put it back on the SL heals, and take this line out of game). If the idea was just to make a temp HP buff that lasts longer than the ones previously on the SL heals, then that's fine, but again, just give this 60 second duration to the buff that comes with SL heals, and forget this stupid, useless line.

Better yet, just collapse this whole line into the doc long-term team HP buff line, which as it is becomes irrelevant about 100 levels before endgame anyway. Remove the instant heal, make it last the same time as all the other long term HP buffs, add a slow, modest HoT to it, set an appropriate endgame value for the HP boost, and leave it at that. Then the buff makes sense, and it's no longer a weird, unbalanced, annoying anomaly. Problem solved.