Query about first time players - MA

[borriss]

Ok first off this is a question to the devs, but I would be deligthed if people also posted their own opinions to the matter.

Now, I've leveled quite a few Martial Artists. And I think it is quite fun to do so, but the only reason it is any fun is because I twink them every 10 levels. Almost.
Now when you do that, it's a very costly process, but your damage is quite good. I also use my high level MA to buff myself MA mastery and Dirty Fighter before I am able to self those.

I however remember my very first character, which was a MA. I was sporting 200 crits on level 60...
And it was not fun at all, so I rerolled...

MA is one of those professions where you can't really get a frost schyte or a stygian and do decent damage. And as we progress even higher into the late levels (200+), a player who's chosen an MA as his first profession will not have the economy and probably not the friend-power to get a good equip.. So they are faced with high AC mobs in SL, doing only minimum damage having low crit chance... The fact of the MA profession: we are DD's we don't bring much to the table but DD.. When we barley outdamage the lvl 203 Doctor whos healing and UBTing, how are we supposed to get teams?

I think alot of people who initially start MA will stop playing it and reroll at some point, sooner or later due to very low damage output and very low healing.


I'm especially concerned about SL and minimum damage, because MA min damage is really poor. I know that this is/has been looked at... But isn't there a way to scale top end damage better with the MA skill that you have, but leave the low end damage pretty much the same regardless of MA skill... So to say you will have a set damage no matter how low your MA skill, depending on perhaps base MA skill?

Let me know what you guys think, and would be great if some FC crew could give me a clearer view of their plans.

[Tanana]

MA's do very good damage right?

I rolled one a long time ago and he only got to 60 but I don't think you need any fancy expensive equipment untill tl5 onwards.

Iirc apart from fairly decent imps (125+) the only 'special' item was Gamboling masters wear, maybe a pair of lowbie aruls.

[borriss]

MA's do very good damage right?

I rolled one a long time ago and he only got to 60 but I don't think you need any fancy expensive equipment untill tl5 onwards.

Iirc apart from fairly decent imps (125+) the only 'special' item was Gamboling masters wear, maybe a pair of lowbie aruls.

MA does pretty decent if you can keep imps ok'ish and have aruls as you say, untill SL...
But even imps and Aruls are not easily obtained for a new player. But also after engaging SL was sort of my main claim that MA has very low damage, without equip

[nitr0]

ma is the only profession that does still ok in pvm with no equip at all and level 10 imps...

the dmg problems start at inferno mishs, because there u need to be twinked... everything else before that ma does ok to great.
(and sorry, but a level 60 ma that does 200ish crits never skilled a single point of martial arts, else it's impossible. a lvl 60 ma twink does 1.8k crits at that level, a completely untwinked one maybe 600... but that's med suit and hardly imps at all)

[Gridpain]

Well, it's true that MA damage gets from quite good to quite low depending on the propostion of crits. Kind of "all or nothing" stuff...

It's even quite impressive in tower backing in NW.

[Weltall]

I hated MA damage until like tl5 or so, when I attained a decent crit%, at inf missions when I had alright-ish gear, I really hated my damage too, only when I got shen sticks and stuff did I start being satisfied with damage.

So for levelling toons my experience is that MAs from level 1-140ish are crappy damage, from tl5-tl6 they become nice damage, then from early tl7 it goes back down the gutter again.

If I had to draw a graph of it, it'd look sorta like a sine curve :P

[Keldros]

MA isn't strictly DD--they also make decent healers when no docs are available. It used to be common practice before SL, and I know at least once I've asked the MA in a team to switch to healing duty during a mission when the doc went afk/asleep.

[Obtena]

You're spot on Boriss. One of my first non-gimped characters was MA and I never got it past level 100. The biggest barrier was getting good MA damage with 'new guy' gear. Even with what I know about twinking now, without the access to the gear I have, my MA would probably be rather lackluster.

[Chrazy]

My MA was my first toon and I never saw my damage as a problem leveling up through tl1-6. The problem is, as you say, when you start with inf missions and you don't use anything but fists. This has already been fixed in one sense, with the new nunchakus so you don't have ot wait for 210 for shens. The other part that is happening is raising the min damage in the re-balance.

[mcnurja]

my first character was MA and it was fun, didnt have any problems to start the game. played up to 200 as froob and making money wasnt hard at all. (back when there was some sort of economy in this game)

[Kazmosis]

An MA was my first toon above 100. At level 130 he had ql 100 imps in and cheap equipment from RK.

Even with that he still was able to steal aggro on hecks with chem fists running and a few lucky crits. He wasn't at all good (In fact, After I stole the aggro I would die on most occasions) but any other proffesion with similar equipment would've been laughed at.

[mawu]

Agree with OP. My first 200+ toon was my ma and always felt really gimped. Neither damage nor soloability in the SL seemed adequate.

[-Klod-]

I felt gimped on my froob MA after level 100 as well, then I figured out the fact that you can do triple wield trick and that forcing crits is the right way to go, even though your min damage might suck.

[Gora]

This may not address the OP's main point but I think MA is a fine choice for a new player's first toon. MA has a pretty low learning curve and it's a great way to learn the game mechanics. Once a player learns how the game works they can decide to roll a different prof or start to collect helpful gear. MA was my first toon (and second toon as well) and then I figured out the important stuff: armor, imps, etc.

[borriss]

ma is the only profession that does still ok in pvm with no equip at all and level 10 imps...

the dmg problems start at inferno mishs, because there u need to be twinked... everything else before that ma does ok to great.
(and sorry, but a level 60 ma that does 200ish crits never skilled a single point of martial arts, else it's impossible. a lvl 60 ma twink does 1.8k crits at that level, a completely untwinked one maybe 600... but that's med suit and hardly imps at all)

At least now I know you don't know what you're talking about^^ But yes, pre NW SL AI LE... Without imps at all, and i couldn't buff any buffs. 200 crits was with maxed MA skill. I couldn't afford anything at that time, I spent most of my income on first aid and treatment kits.

If you read the OP I pretty much state that I am talking about a new player(not a froob), entering SL at 60-80 ish as most should do as SL is faster leveling at around that time, the damage output of a then 60-80 MA is pretty darn if he has no imps, and thus would probably wouldn't have the skills to use MA mastery even..

It all depends abit, but even the new Kyr weapons... Those aren't easy to get at all for a first time player...

[Siyra]

It all depends abit, but even the new Kyr weapons... Those aren't easy to get at all for a first time player...

Some of that is because they haven't had the years that the other ones have had to saturate the market yet. Give it time, they'll be plenty of em on GMS and horded in org banks. I don't know if they drop on newb island (probably not) but I doubt lowbie MAs would gain much, if anything, from using them at that low level.

As they become more and more common they will be easier/cheaper for newcomers to get their hands on.

[Obtena]

^^ Not really. The prices of other Kyr weapons that have been in the market forever are still in that millions range.

[Ciex]

I however remember my very first character, which was a MA. I was sporting 200 crits on level 60...

Acording to my ip calculator you would make them higher while being naked but with full ip in MA skill. FC doesnt have any ways to enforce people putting ip into their main skill.

In my org most people started with MAs because they were cheap and decent. I had one myself at the beginning of my career. I really see no problem here. If you want to see what BAD dmg looks like roll a trader or something, buy vector from shop and go on rampage.

MA is one of those professions where you can't really get a frost schyte or a stygian and do decent damage.

And what exactly stops you from using stygian or whatever if its so good? On my latest lowbie MA i went with piercing weapons and it was cool; silvertail daggers first and then fear forged blades. It worked excellent.

we barley outdamage the lvl 203 Doctor whos healing and UBTing,

Lol, yeah … You need to press „q” my friend. You should have know that by now.

But ok, I know its Christmas time. Means, give MAs some new toys!

[Tanana]

My first Sl toon was a Engie with imps I could self, a vector and a bot about 10 levels lower than my level. No-one told me you could get moochies and stuffz! ><

I agree, MA's are a decent first alt for people to play.

[Siyra]

^^ Not really. The prices of other Kyr weapons that have been in the market forever are still in that millions range.

Granted, but I was more meaning prices like I've seen of like 30/40m for one.