Friday with Means - November 12th, 2010 - Changes large and small

[Silq]

They are selling solutions to boredom they created. This whole world is an artificial construct of Funcoms making...

... after 10 years there are a lot of grinds/time sinks in this game. Dont expect any of that to change when now they see it as a revenue stream.

We're supposed to be paying to have fun here, not paying to skip the not-so-fun parts.

This.

I've yet to see anyone come up with any sound argument that introducing paid content like this doesn't introduce a nasty conflict of interest for the future.

Yes there have been huge improvements - up until now - in the levelling curve, with dailies and instances along the way, but will there be as much incentive to continue to develop content for low to mid levels going forward? Same for developing pvm alternatives for VP, and anything else that might pop into this shop in the future as a 'fix'. How long before alien levels and research can be bought?

Worst case scenario, this becomes accepted, and instead of people asking for diversity, fixes and more fun/new content, they'll cry in the forums for it to be added to the shop :|

[doctorgore]

This.

I've yet to see anyone come up with any sound argument that introducing paid content like this doesn't introduce a nasty conflict of interest for the future.

Yes there have been huge improvements - up until now - in the levelling curve, with dailies and instances along the way, but will there be as much incentive to continue to develop content for low to mid levels going forward? Same for developing pvm alternatives for VP, and anything else that might pop into this shop in the future as a 'fix'. How long before alien levels and research can be bought?

Worst case scenario, this becomes accepted, and instead of people asking for diversity, fixes and more fun/new content, they'll cry in the forums for it to be added to the shop :|

The precedent is set now to start selling bocs ai armors and anything else and at most I say within two years or less it will happen.

[fortorn]

The precedent is set now to start selling bocs ai armors and anything else and at most I say within two years or less it will happen.

We have no other recourse than to accept the games leadership and hope they make the correct and balanced choices that continue to make this game great. AO has so much content and such a dedicated player base that all it needs is powerful spark to reignite it.

Roll out my graphics update and rebalance.

[kabulla]

The precedent is set now to start selling bocs ai armors and anything else and at most I say within two years or less it will happen.

Won't happen... at least not directly. Most of what is being sold/considered atm for the item shop would be considered convenience items. Meaning they are easy to obtain through normal play but, are time consuming. Anything that might fit that criteria would be considered I suppose but, a burden or AI armor is more luck based as they aren't 100% drop chancing items. That to me is the major deciding factor between what could be in a item shop. It's really not that much different than alot of Korean games though I think the AO staff needs to question their implementation atm.

Allowing cash shop items to be sold for creds brings about a direct price correlation between RL $ and AO creds meaning in the long and short term people will see that its cheaper to just buy the creds than buy the items directly from FC... that is also the way it is in most Korean MMOs. FC's "goal" with the cash shop was to make a little extra income from the playerbase plus, try and take a little stab at the gold farmers. With a direct correlation between RL and AO $ they have/will fail at the later.

[lyledesol]

Gotta say I feel even more let down now..

6 Days after we find out what's going in the store.. And while the heated discussion is still underway.. The shop come's in, with Everything being discussed...

Talk about bending over and taking one for the team.. Obviously now there was no point even discussing it.. What's the bloody point in players having their say..


Welcome to Screwcom's latest game.. $Visa$ Online :/

[Ikarus]

Okay guys.
I still don't like the concept of item shops in MMOs and probably never will. I'm not convinced to buy anything I've seen so far, not even mentioning buying additional points. But that's just me.
What I do have to say is that the implementation and technical sides of that shop are brilliant.
The visual presentation is nice and doesn't feel alien (in a non axp related sense) to the game. It is quick and seems comfortable to use.
I can compare it to Turbines Itemshops in DDO & Lotro and they are not only ugly, don't fit well into the theme(s) but terryfyingly slow, sloppy and inconvenient to use. You are basically waiting 90% of the time, waiting for the single sites to appear. Which you'll have to do often, because the stuff is badly arranged and doesn't field any sliders. You'll click and load (wait) for the next page every six items.
So, really good job on that implementation. Doubly good because I am simply amazed at the speed and quality of this approach, well knowing that Turbines Lotro was simply left alone for almost 6 months between two releases, 3 (4 for europeans) of those months after the announcement of their traversion. To be fair, they had to change other aspects due to going f2p, too. But no rush of content on release and a really badly designed shop do feel quite underwhelming.

So, back to bickering ( ). The prices are quite high, but I am actually glad to see that. This will mean Veteran Points retain some value (although the rate of gaining those could and should be tipped a little in favor of newer accounts), Tokens and VP are quite expensive, but they should be. I do like the low prices on Superior Sentinel, OTAF and Omni-Med Battle cosmetic armors.
The social items seem to be priced okay, although I'd consider 200 points already somewhat off.
The buffs are surely missing in this version, but I hope they'll be priced in line with the other heavy stuff: Only for rich, mad or seriously desperate people. Possibly a combination of all of them.

I won't say well done ( apart from the technical and graphical aspects ), although these thoughts did cross my mind. What I'd prefer to say is more like:
Worst case situation well avoided. We shall see - and hope - that this will stay this way.

[FoosballX]

Hmmm 28 pages, and some solid arguments for and against.
However I'm betting the devs stopped reading around page 6.

[Ruffixx]

We have no other recourse than to accept the games leadership and hope they make the correct and balanced choices that continue to make this game great. AO has so much content and such a dedicated player base that all it needs is powerful spark to reignite it.

Roll out my graphics update and rebalance.

Or demand new leadership for failing us. Namely, for starting along the path that can only lead to no good (store) or for being too weak to rebalance the game in an unbiased and professional manner.

Nothing - and I mean nothing - good can come from these shops. Half the time I am too busy to sign on and even complete 1 daily mission, yet I don't want easier access to advancing my characters.

Introducing rebalancing changes, asking for public input, and then redoing said rebalancing is the worst way to ever "fix" the game. Everyone is looking out for themselves. If Engies get 4 new shinies and sacrifice 2 things, I (Fixers) better get at least 4 shinies and sacrifice no more than 2 things. Dumbest. Program. Ever. Analyze how the game is played, ask Professionals for their own/their professions' feedback, but don't pre-release changes that certainly won't go live in their current state.

[FoosballX]

Honestly all of these items being sold might not be the end of AO, the reality is people have to pay the money for it. And really seeing some of the prices a lot of people might not.
I think balancing will do far more damage on it's own the the selling of items. Then again I could be wrong.

Lets be honest FC does not have the best track record when it comes to implementing new stuff into game. Here's two examples just off the top of my head, The Borealis take over patch. Somehow FC completely forgot their was mobs in the city that all sides needed to finish quests. Ofoz and Maud Stevens. Who were moved like a week later after the devs realized they screwed up.
Then lets look at the wonderfully smart idea to make it so players couldn't zone while in combat. Okay great idea for PvP, but completely forgot to take into account how it would effect the rest of the game play. Low to mid lvl players that were running RK missions and getting beat on by lvl 180 dyna camps were not to happy with this change.

I do think the fact that Means did flat out lie to the community does need to be taken into consideration here as well.
To quote "That being said I just said "Item Store". Before anyone gets upset (probably already too late) speculating about us selling BOC or RBP in this store let me assure you that the general guidelines we set out years ago of not selling "power" for money is still very much in force."
Okay VP is pretty much only use to buy some of the most powerful weapons in game, and some of the more top level armor.
Okay maybe the items themselves aren't being sold, but the means to get them is. So I'm trying to understand how FC can say they're not selling power for money, when they clearly are.
So when you think about it, what else could be in the future for the new store?

[Protozo]

So OFAB can be either Yesdrop or VP buyable, but not both. Then, pray tell, where would you get it from? It doesn't drop anywhere.

By "VP buyable", I mean making "VP cash buyable", as in paying cash for VP.

The last thing we need is to make every other low armor in the game obsolete for those with LE. Ofab doesn't need to be Yesdrop if you can buy VP with cash, and vice versa.

[PhoenixOfAges]

I sure he feels proud of the effort, and it was an effort, think of the time spent getting it there and the number of Pande runs it would have taken.. I expect his guildies and friends are proud of it too.. Heck, I respect him for doing it, noway I'd try... What's your personal achievements btw? Must be good if you're so quick to belittle his...

So tell me, how does a level one char contributes to a Pand team? Rather than contribute such a char actually makes things more difficult for the others as if it is attacked just once or ignored for a while, the char dies.

If I look at something I have on a char and feel proud of it then I actually did the work to get it by myself or was a part of the effort to get it pulling my own weight and it was difficult. I have packs and packs of Lya armour and other such stuff on my many chars which I'm happy about having. Although there is no sense of accomplishment or pride as I used a char the related mobs stood no chance against and my other chars picked the items up in complete safety. I did it myself with my own chars though.

The only ones that can feel some sense of accomplishment in getting a level one char to the Beast's lair to loot Beast armour that is put in their social tab are the other people involved as they are the ones that got that char there. They were the ones that did all the work. As the char is not theirs though they can't log it, look at the gear and feel proud. All they can do is look back at the memory and think how they managed to keep that char alive the whole way through everything involved in getting it to that location. Selling social tab gear that looks like Beast armour and such does not take away from their accomplishment as the memory is really all they have to look at anyway.

[LyrLazarus]

By "VP buyable", I mean making "VP cash buyable", as in paying cash for VP.

The last thing we need is to make every other low armor in the game obsolete for those with LE. Ofab doesn't need to be Yesdrop if you can buy VP with cash, and vice versa.

WELLLL I'm kinda not seeing the problem atm. Actually buying VP is incredibly expensive, I really doubt many people will buy it.

And making Ofab more available doesn't seem like it will make every other low armor in the game obsolete. It is a lot more expensive than other armor. Ofab seems to be selling right now at a rate where 2m credits = 1k VP. Relatively low level Ofab might be 5k VP per piece, or 10m credits per piece, or 70m for a set. If you upgrade the Ofab to Upgraded or Penultimate, then it will cost even more AND you won't be able to resell that Ofab when you're done with it because any non-Basic Ofab becomes No-Drop again.


For low levels, I'd probably still stick to carbonum thanks to it being much cheaper, the extra NCU is always nice, and the AC value is plenty high enough. Especially at extremely low levels, Ofab wouldn't be much better than carbonum I think.

[Alternity]

So tell me, how does a level one char contributes to a Pand team? Rather than contribute such a char actually makes things more difficult for the others as if it is attacked just once or ignored for a while, the char dies.

You really don't understand what you are talking about.

[LyrLazarus]

WELLLL I'm kinda not seeing the problem atm. Actually buying VP is incredibly expensive, I really doubt many people will buy it.

Speaking of which, I'll be the first to admit I probably overreacted a bit to the proposed shop

Based on the prices seen so far, I don't think the shop should hurt the game much and the bit of extra revenue it provides should help.

It would've been nice at least knowing some approximate range of the prices last Friday, before I devoted so much time and thought to it haha :P

[Mephoriouz]

well... when i was able to log in yesterday (after the patch for the patch was done ) i took a look in the shop and thought "oh crap". and this was the right word (at least for me). first: i couldn't belive that they've put H-ween stuff in, wich still was lootable just 3 days before and 2nd: that they've put stuff in wich doesn't work (of course they've been told and they KNOW the prob...). what am i talking about? The Final Respite Backpack couldn't be opened before patch, neither yet. yes, i've used the screwdriver and it went *poof*... but still no chance to open it. it isn't the item itself... just the fact to expect to get money from the dumb community for - and in this case it realy fits - crap. great job... well done... ridiculous.

[Doom]

Level packs (Boost to 50, Boost to 100, Boost to 150, Boost to 199). These items will only be available to accounts that already have a 220 Character as an option for those who want to play another profession at end game but do not have the time or inclination to replay the lower level end of the game another time.
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Every profession is different, therefore every profession is an entirely new game, so if you've never played the profession, you are not playing the same game another time.

This definitely takes the cake of being the worst idea created by FC so far.

[Tanana]

Every profession is different, therefore every profession is an entirely new game, so if you've never played the profession, you are not playing the same game another time.

This definitely takes the cake of being the worst idea created by FC so far.

Bump

[Tanana]

I see no difference between selling VP for people to purchase OFAB items in game then allowing people to buy BoC, RBP, AI Armor sets..anything..from the ingame store.

This is the very definition of selling power.

[Mastablasta]

I see no difference between selling VP for people to purchase OFAB items in game then allowing people to buy BoC, RBP, AI Armor sets..anything..from the ingame store.

This is the very definition of selling power.

Well, then we should definitely be able to buy those things as well

[Crowena]

I don't want to run all those annoying quests. Can I just pay to have the rewards from them?