Will FC change any pvp level ranges?

[Armus]

I know that Lupus and so does most every other person doing NW. That's precisely why no one has an excuse to QQ about that power delta when they roll twinks that are in the range of those levels.

Although I don't agree with you that anyone is QQing about anything here, the power delta while an obvious issue isn't what most ppl are talking about. It's the result of it that is the problem. IE nearly no tl5 nw action. And it doesn't help if you or me or the other 20 ppl that posted in this thread is willing to go through even all the hoops you sugegsted as a workaround for the problem. It won't change the fact that tl5 NW doesn't happen.

In the end I'll just be sitting on my 12 fields forever. Which isn't what I want. And I doubt many others do either.

[Obtena]

If it's not the issue, I would suggest you stop using it as one of the pillars of your argument for why it should be fixed.

[Armus]

If it's not the issue, I would suggest you stop using it as one of the pillars of your argument for why it should be fixed.

I can explain things to you but I can't understand them for you.

[Obtena]

Right, so you're back to insulting me as your default stance? Do I come across to you as someone who is so stupid that I wouldn't understand the likes of yourself? Don't flatter yourself too much there, I'm not reading anything you've posted that needs more than a basic comprehension of reading and logic to follow it. Take a step back and let me know how that approach works out for you.

[Wrangeline]

Right, so you're back to insulting me as your default stance? Do I come across to you as someone who is so stupid that I wouldn't understand the likes of yourself? Don't flatter yourself too much there. Take a step back and let me know how that approach works out for you.

Your very first post in this thread was an insult.

After that you have continued with the mentality that people who don't view the current NW situation in the same narrow minded way as you do, are "Idiots". You have also said that you would rather see NW die and never run again, than to "punish" a handful of people that made tl7 twink-killers. That alone completely nullifies all credibility you have.

You have to be open to sensible thinking. It is sensible to look at PvP ranges and notice a big discrepancy and then think to yourself "should I change something here to make it more reasonable?". If you are unwilling to even entertain that thought, because protecting the "right" to make tl7 twink-killers (which is really only a privilege), is more important to you than making sure that we have a system that promotes NW action as much as possible rather than limiting it, then you are exactly the kind of person that would run a MMO into the ground and go down with the ship.

You can say that the main reason for tl5 NW not running is lack of people for example but the thing is, if we did get 10.000 new players into AO, the underlying problem would still exist and would still make 150-190 NW less fun than it could have been. And it would still prevent more tl5 NW than it promoted. (And btw, saying that a big level range SHOULD stay nullified for NW is the wrong stance to take when designing anything in a MMO. You don't design something in such a way that it excludes people from content at a big level range.. The fact that you are championing this exclusion shows that you don't have the games general health at heart.)

And if you are unwilling to entertain the thought that what I'm saying is true (about tl7 twink killers ruining a lot of tl5 NW), then have FC make a poll on the subject and let the votes tell us what the truth is. Do people want tl7 twink killers to stay away from tl5 NW? Yes or No. You should have no problem supporting such a poll if you really have the games best interest at heart. If you wouldn't support (or care about) such a poll then I can only conclude that you don't care about how much NW runs or how much fun the playerbase think it is, as long as your "right" to make tl7 twinks isn't changed, which would be incredibly selfish and then I'd have to ignore you forever. And if the poll shows that most people want tl7 twink killers to continue to meddle with tl5 NW then you would win this entire argument.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

wrangeline for president!

[Gunfytr]

I've stayed out of this , generally because I dont have a dog in this fight, but I'll add a thought. There are 2 ways of looking at this. One is that ppl are bringing NASCAR to a pinewood derby, and that this isnt "fair". The other is that they have Special Forces to fight a "conscript" army, and gleefully do so.
It would appear that Noobius and co. would like a "Gentlemans agreement" to not bring twink killers to kill their twinks. To make ttl 5 fights, well, ttl 5. Others look at ALL the toons at their disposal as tools to use in gaining and holding towers. Not just ttl 5. So, Fc will have to revamp the whole PvP scale to keep ttl 5 twink owners happy. If either side is waiting for ppl to "do the right thing" and play as they "should", hell will freeze over first.

@Noobius: Twink killers at ttl5 in no way, shape or form are preventing NW at any lvl. Lack of Omni leadership, low morale and just not caring is doing that well enuff.

Again, just my opinion, having read all the pros and cons.

[Armus]

Right, so you're back to insulting me as your default stance? Do I come across to you as someone who is so stupid that I wouldn't understand the likes of yourself? Don't flatter yourself too much there, I'm not reading anything you've posted that needs more than a basic comprehension of reading and logic to follow it. Take a step back and let me know how that approach works out for you.

You come across to me as dishonest and extremely egotistical. But not as stupid.

[Armus]

It would appear that Noobius and co. would like a "Gentlemans agreement" to not bring twink killers to kill their twinks.

No I have never said anything even remotely similar to that. It would never work because any agreement that you and I make wouldn't apply to 99,99% of the ppl of the server and hence it woudl be futile to even try it.

To make ttl 5 fights, well, ttl 5. Others look at ALL the toons at their disposal as tools to use in gaining and holding towers. Not just ttl 5.

And that's exactly why tl5 won't ever happen. Bring 2-3 207-210 toons and some 220 pockets and you can wipe any tl5 force that ever existed on the planet within a minute. Tl5 is just broken in that sense.

So, Fc will have to revamp the whole PvP scale to keep ttl 5 twink owners happy.

It's not very complicated at all. The ranges were changes before and they can easily be changed again. It's only a matter of wanting to enable pvp outside of battlestations in the range of 165-189.

If either side is waiting for ppl to "do the right thing" and play as they "should", hell will freeze over first.

Not sure where you even got the notion that anyone was waiting for that. We never asked for it because we all know it will never happen. That's why the ranges have to be changed if we want to see this tange come back to live. If we don't we should at least admit that we are happy to see it dead.

@Noobius: Twink killers at ttl5 in no way, shape or form are preventing NW at any lvl. Lack of Omni leadership, low morale and just not caring is doing that well enuff.
Again, just my opinion, having read all the pros and cons.

Everyone knows there are other contributing factors in the equation. Noone is disputing that say, if we had a population that was 5 times greater than the one we have today things may be different. But that's not a valid comparison because the dynamics change with numbers and it's pointless to try to compare to numbers we just don't have. What we have to do is to look to what we can do to improve things with the numbers we actually have today.

You can never defend one wrong with another one. Fix the ranges and we have one less major deterrant.

ps. There are a few brave souls on omni side that tries to do the anti laddering tactic that Obtena thinks would solve things. In other words they bring 130-150's to kill ql 150 towers. Let me tell you how it plays out. We bring a few 150's-170's and dispose of them with ease. Why? Because 150-170 is about a hundred times more numerous than high tl4's will ever be. Not mentioning more powerful.

Imo tl5 should be able to do tl5 towers. It's a nobrainer really isn't it?

[Obtena]

Even you are admitting that it's about numbers, not levels so how does changing level rules give you more PVP at TL5 NW? You're whole argument is a fallacy. You can't force anyone to do NW at any level.

[Armus]

Even you are admitting that it's about numbers, not levels so how does changing level rules give you more PVP at TL5 NW? You're whole argument is a fallacy. You can't force anyone to do NW at any level.

As I said earlier I can explain it to yo but I can't understand if for you.

You are either;

A) Exceedingly stupid.
B) Purposfully misunderstanding everything.
C) Both of the above and possibly more.

Not much I can do about anything until you start being a little honest and at least try to understand what is being said.

[Tanana]

It's a really simple message Ob.

Can you agree that not being able to bring an alt to TL5 NW thats far, far superior to TL5 players would improve TL5 NW?

If thats not a concept that you agree with then explain why you feel that killing flys with grenade launchers is so much better and more fun?

At the moment your just using the arguement of 'I can do it therefore I should do it and anything that stops me doing it is unfair'. A valid arguement but when it lowers the fun factor of an entire title level range then it should be looked at. Fun in a game...shocking I know!

[Obtena]

What do you mean by improve? If you mean that the TL5 NW PVP will be more balanced, then yes. If you mean that it will make it TL5 NW PVP more interesting and strategic, then no. That's simply a matter of opinion about what 'improvement' is.

I've been giving a pretty simple message myself. NW isn't only about PVP. Yes, it has PVP elements, but the most successful NW players actually AVOID PVPING, otherwise they wouldn't USE level laddering and manipulate base timing to win. It's pretty hypocritical of most people here to complain about TL7 twinks 'ruining' their NW experience in one hand and on the other, happily exploit base timing and other level laddering schemes at other TL's to win and ruin others NW experience. Nice right? It's why I don't put much merit into the 'moral' aspect of most people's motives for supporting these ideas. It comes across very selfish and strongly hypocritical. If they really wanted NW fixed, they would be proposing other fixes to NW that have more profound impacts on it's accessibility for others to promote it. If people want balanced TL5 PVP, they can go to BS. Let me remind you that Noobius is also a strong advocate of removing turrets and mechs .... he's the LAST person interested in making NW more accessible and fun for others. NW is more than just PVP.

You don't think NW is fun? Don't do it. FC doesn't have to make it fun for you. Lots of people think it is fun, otherwise they would have never rolled a 207 twink in the first place. Not every aspect of the game has to be fun for every last player. It can't be and FC shouldn't waste time trying to make it that way either. The statement that NW is not fun is just as relevant as saying it is fun. All just a matter of opinion. The difference between you and me is that my position is actually based on the mechanics of the game, while yours is based on an assumption of what you think should be 'fun' for everyone. In the end, the mechanics of the game is what dictates what players are able to do, not some general sense of what anyone imposes on others as 'fun'. If that means a small portion of NW level ranges is broken so that the larger portion works, then so be it. Assuming that a fix will make all levels of the NW range working is just more nonsense ... it's not fixing it for people that think TL7 twinking is 'fun' for NW now is it?

[Gridpain]

Obtena, your arguement that it's not the twinkkillers that are killing TL5 activity is the same that people saying SB+OS was not the reason there has not been any TL7 activity for 2.5 years.

Sure, Twinkkillers is not the *only* reason that prevent TL5 activity, but it surely contributes negatively (why care going to TL5 wars when you know it will end up in 5 min on who controls TL7)

Changing the PVP range could help restoring some activity, with little drawback. (Dont tell me that people that have rolled twink killers are not bored to tears to kill greys and are not waiting for an incentive to do something else)

[Obtena]

I never debated that it's not a negative factor in the lack of activity. What I have said that making a change to exclude Tl7 twinks from TL5 NW won't fix the problem of TL5 war inactivity. There are lots of threads about proposed solutions. Each has it's own new problems that end in the same result, so they aren't really solutions now are they?

Noobius already admits that his preferred option (TL cap) is simply making a short window of TL5 NW opportunity before people remake twinks to get the same situation we have now. That's what this is about? I mean, anyone with a bit of foresight will just crap all over that idea ... Why would ANYONE waste time doing TL5 NW knowing it will be inactive again in a few months because of 204 twinks? That's just nonsense.

[Armus]

Noobius already admits that his preferred option (TL cap) is simply making a window of TL5 NW opportunity before people remake twinks to get the same situation we have now.

Yeah just leave out most of what I said about that you dishonest twit, you always do. I told you over and over and over why a 204 will be less desirable to make and much less powerful than any 207-214 that we have today. How you still don't get that I have no idea.

[Obtena]

I guess my crystal ball isn't working as good as yours. If FC does implement that suggestion, I'm glad I won't be the one getting the 'idiot' look from everyone when the new 204 twinks would ruin your PVP at TL5 wars ... for a second time.

Sorry, I can't help that you are delusional about how fast a 204 twink with 220 support would destroy your TL5 twinks. So you have convinced yourself that a 207 twink support by 220 DOES ruin TL5 wars, but a 204 supported by 220 DOESN'T? Yeah, OK ... and I'm the one that lacks understanding of how it all works? USERIOUSBRO?

[Obtena]

Your very first post in this thread was an insult.

The best part is that it is also true. Perhaps you are right though. Idiot is harsh ... how about arithmetically-challenged?

[Tanana]

What do you mean by improve? If you mean that the TL5 NW PVP will be more balanced, then yes. If you mean that it will make it TL5 NW PVP more interesting and strategic, then no.

Ha...I actually believe that you think taking TL7's to NW is some kind of genius tactic!

Lol

What is it about taking your TL7 to a lowbie fight that interests you? Does the killing of greys empower you or something?

But I'll give you one thing...Players being pocketed at all levels should be looked at, as has been suggested many, many times over by almost everyone that has anything to do with PvP. 99.999% of the population think it's lame just the same as bringing TL7 to a TL5 fight...

...then again given your stance on this subject your probably also in favor of the way pocketing actually works in PvP, any change to it after all would lessen the fun of the Doc's that enjoy pocketing lowbies!

[Obtena]

It's not genius, it's just sensible if that's an option open to you in the particular scenario. Notum War is about winning. If it helps you win, you do it. If you want to do PVP exclusively for fun, go to BS.