Will FC change any pvp level ranges?

[Anarchic1]

As has been suggested whats to stop the 207 twinks leveling up to 220. There is just as much need for PvP to occur at 220 and this is exactly the option that those players would have, so they wouldn't be 'punished'.

Why are you hanging onto TL7 twinks? Their only purpose in NW is to stop NW happening.

quite a few ppl have 220 versions already of their 207 twinks

[Obtena]

Why are you hanging onto TL7 twinks? Their only purpose in NW is to stop NW happening.

207 twinks help win NW. That's why people roll them. No one makes 207 twinks to prevent NW now do they? Don't confuse cause and effect.

[Wrangeline]

207 twinks help win NW. That's why people roll them. No one makes 207 twinks to prevent NW now do they? Don't confuse cause and effect.

That's technically just semantics though because the intent (I think the word "intent" fits better than "cause") and effect actually happen to be the same in this case.

In terms of intent and effect, TL7 twink killers have the same intent and very similar effect as Orbital Strikes used to have on TL7 NW. People used orbital strikes to win a battle by PREVENTING an actual battle from even taking place.. by simply obliterating the enemy in mere seconds. The effect was obviously the same. People see that there is no actual battle taking place and that most of their time is wasted, so they say "screw this" and stop going. So then Orbital Strike were nerfed and things are better as a result.

TL7 twink killers have a similar intent and effect. They are used to prevent a battle from even taking place because the goal is to run in and obliterate the enemy in mere seconds and then run out again. The more effective they are at this the better it is in their eyes. So same thing as with orbital strikes. The effect is also the same as with orbital strikes. People don't have much fun on their mid level characters when the OUTCOME of the midlevel fight is outside of THEIR control. I'm all for different level-ranges being involved in the same NW battles but a tl5 battle for example should be decided mainly by tl5's, not mainly by tl7's. If 3 tl7's decided the outcome of a tl5 NW battle where 12 tl5's took part, then something is wrong.

The goal of NW is for people to fight.
Any tool or strategy that prevent or restrict fights from taking place needs to at least be looked into.

[Animistic]

TL5 wars for TL5s, all i got to say in this topic.

[Rurounin]

1) Change the tower spots to only accept people in it's level range, this goes for all kinds of buffing as well.
2) Modify tower fields level ranges to fit in better with #1.

[Armus]

207 That's why people roll them. No one makes 207 twinks to prevent NW now do they?

Perhaps they don't. But that doesn't automatically have to mean that we have to be too stupid to realize that's the effect it has.

[Obtena]

That's technically just semantics though because the intent (I think the word "intent" fits better than "cause") and effect actually happen to be the same in this case.

In terms of intent and effect, TL7 twink killers have the same intent and very similar effect as Orbital Strikes used to have on TL7 NW.

The big difference here is that the OS mechanics were biased to a particular faction and 207 twinks aren't. You can't claim that FC nerfed OS because of how it 'prevented' NW because that state actually persisted for a LONG time before it was fixed. I don't believe FC fix things in the game because they fall out of favour or become unpopular. I think it was nerfed because in combination with SB, it favoured OMNI in an biased manner. Who knows what is the right version but references to it are not appropriate here.

The intent of 207 twinks is to win NW. That's the reason people roll them. The impact that 207 twinks have on the frequency of TL5 NW is also debatable. Even if the lack of TL5 NW was 100% attributable to the lack of NW, there are actually other ways to approach NW to avoid them. The fact that people HAVEN'T done that is what makes me think that the lack of TL5 NW is NOT completely attributed to 207 twinks. If NW people are willing to make 207 twinks to win, then sure as hell they would be willing to make twinks on the lower end to win as well. The problem here is one of motivation to participate in NW because the option is there to avoid the issue that people is claiming 'prevents' it from happening.

[Armus]

The big difference here is that the OS mechanics were biased to a particular faction and 207 twinks aren't.

They aren't the same thing but the result is the same.

You can't claim that FC nerfed OS because of how it 'prevented' NW because that state actually persisted for a LONG time before it was fixed.

They fixed it for exactly that reason. The community signaled throug the inactivity that it wouldn't accept these things. FC was simply losing customers over it.

I don't believe FC fix things in the game because they fall out of favour or become unpopular.

Yeah it's not like FC is about to fix the whole game due to "falling out of favour", now is it?

The intent of 207 twinks is to win NW. That's the reason people roll them.

How do you know that? The ones I know did it to farm super duper easy kills off twinks. There is no other range where it's so easy and where easy to pick off opponents. This goes in towerfields or in city pvp or in any other place.

The impact that 207 twinks have on the frequency of TL5 NW is also debatable.

Everything is debatable. But contesting the undeniable makes one look very silly. Like these guys: http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

Even if the lack of TL5 NW was 100% attributable to the lack of NW, there are actually other ways to approach NW to avoid them.

Yes we all know what your idea of alternative approaches are. Namely using tl4 and tl7. In other words your idea of tl5 NW is to simply avoid tl5 altogether.
For the rest of us who do want to play tl5 such an idea is nothing but laughable.

The fact that people HAVEN'T done that is what makes me think that the lack of TL5 NW is NOT completely attributed to 207 twinks.

Except it has been done. You really are snowed in if you don't think it has. And we've shown that we have tons of 126 twinks that can be and have been used to do ql 150 towers. But let's get real here. The population is way too small to sustain any serious ammount of dedicated tl4 twinks for 150 towers. It's a niche for twink orgs like my own. It will never happen in 90% of other orgs.

If NW people are willing to make 207 twinks to win, then sure as hell they would be willing to make twinks on the lower end to win as well.

Except it only takes a handfull of active 207-214's to deter enough tl5's from even trying. Tl4 is just not nearly as popular as tl5. It hasn't been since I started playing and probably never will be.

The problem here is one of motivation to participate in NW because the option is there to avoid the issue that people is claiming 'prevents' it from happening.

The issue is that tl5 NW is percieved as lame and no fun at all. What you or the other 10 ppl on each server feels about 207 twinks is a small matter.

Either there is a change or it will just stay dead. Simply because it's no fun.

[Anarchic1]

don't please use the dead argument anymore considering everything is dead. and if you can't kill a 207 in a tl5 war, you obvi aren't trying hard enough. We used to bring both our tl5 and tl7 toons to sites and do quick relogs to wipe both of their tls. sure it took longer but it made wars more fun for me.

10 ppl with tl5 twinks usually have atleast 10 tl7s.

[Armus]

don't please use the dead argument anymore considering everything is dead. and if you can't kill a 207 in a tl5 war, you obvi aren't trying hard enough. We used to bring both our tl5 and tl7 toons to sites and do quick relogs to wipe both of their tls. sure it took longer but it made wars more fun for me.

10 ppl with tl5 twinks usually have atleast 10 tl7s.

If you'd cared to read the thread through you'd know that we've been through that part many times over now. It's not about what I can do or what my friends can or can't do. We've already shown that we have tower sites coming out of our ears.

What it's about is what twink killers are doing to tl5 NW.

Secondly I have seen nobody argue against the existence of "Bigger fish". Just that in this case it's not even fish. It's killerwhales pocketed by bluewhales slaughtering herrings. Or in other words; the power delta is just too big and is hampering the tl5 situation so much that tl5 nw doesn't exist. There will still be bigger fish if my suggestion is implemented and plenty of them. Especially now that 200 twinks are becoming prolific.

That's the argument. Nothing else.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

If you'd cared to read the thread through you'd know that we've been through that part many times over now. It's not about what I can do or what my friends can or can't do. We've already shown that we have tower sites coming out of our ears.

What it's about is what twink killers are doing to tl5 NW.

Secondly I have seen nobody argue against the existence of "Bigger fish". Just that in this case it's not even fish. It's killerwhales pocketed by bluewhales slaughtering herrings. Or in other words; the power delta is just too big and is hampering the tl5 situation so much that tl5 nw doesn't exist. There will still be bigger fish if my suggestion is implemented and plenty of them. Especially now that 200 twinks are becoming prolific.

That's the argument. Nothing else.

hear hear.

I have NO issue getting hammered on by a 200 on my 170.

I have a billion issues with being insta-reclaimed by 207's with 220 docs pokin around.

If level changes are not fixed, at least institute the subtle change for team pvp that is if you are in a team the highest level and lowest level on the team dictate the range for PVP, not the individual.

Hence: a 150 is teamed with 170's. The 150's min level opponent to attack is 130, not 119, similarly, the max level to attack is 200 not 214.

This would fix PVP in one swift patch. All of a sudden, twinks of all different level would show up and, opponents would NEED twinks of similar level to defend, not just break out the TL7's to instagib teams of TL5's.

[Armus]

hear hear.

I have NO issue getting hammered on by a 200 on my 170.

I have a billion issues with being insta-reclaimed by 207's with 220 docs pokin around.

I think 99+% of the ppl in AO sympathizes with you. Myself included.

If level changes are not fixed, at least institute the subtle change for team pvp that is if you are in a team the highest level and lowest level on the team dictate the range for PVP, not the individual.

Hence: a 150 is teamed with 170's. The 150's min level opponent to attack is 130, not 119, similarly, the max level to attack is 200 not 214.

This would fix PVP in one swift patch. All of a sudden, twinks of all different level would show up and, opponents would NEED twinks of similar level to defend, not just break out the TL7's to instagib teams of TL5's.

Original and pretty good idea. But won't they just come unteamed?

[RedWatr]

I still like the "up 1 title level, down 1 title level" idea.

[fixyourself]

heh after reading since the last time I am starting to think Obtena has either a 207 or 214 twink

[Kazmosis]

NW will never take off again, I'm sorry. PvP is so skewed to the high end (People with Billions of creds and 220 toons to farm) that it just becomes pointless to pvp at all until you have a 220. This takes a chunk of people away from possible participants. I'm not saying to make the average player on par with a twink, I'm just saying make it a slightly longer battle then an instant alpha. Make it so a large number of averagish players have a chance to defend a tower site from a couple twinks.

[Animistic]

ps. TL5 wars for TL5s, not overgrown 207 mongorage steroid midgets that come ruin our parties.

[Hometown]

ps. TL5 wars for TL5s, not overgrown 207 mongorage steroid midgets that come ruin our parties.

Bump.

[Lupusceleri]

@Obtena and other "bigger fish" talkers.

When you get to L201 and higher, each level you gain equals around 5-10 regular levels. You get a lot more IP, get the ability to raise skills 5 times more, one perk per level instead of one perk perk 10 levels, et cetera.

When a 95 twink has to fight, say, a 118 twink (approx 125% more powerful) he has a chance of killing it. When a 150 twink has to fight a 170 twink (approx 113% more powerful) he has a chance of killing it. When a 170 twink has to fight a 200 twink (approx 117% more powerful) he has a chance of killing it. The level difference isn't actually big enough to be an impassable obstacle.

Though we do need to take note of the "bump" in perk damage when one hits L165 and can access Champion 9 perks. Or the "bump" in Nano Resist when one hits L151 for the s7 ring, or the second "bump" in Nano Resist when one hits L201 for the HHAB.

When a 170 twink is fighting a 214 twink, he/she is in reality fighting a L270 (159% more powerful) or even L340 (200% more powerful) twink when expressed in RK levels. That is the problem. An appropriate scaling of toon power would allow the 170 to fight a L212-214 twink expressed in purely RK levels, which translates to L201 or L203 when you're using SL levels instead of RK ones.

[Armus]

@ Lupu you really are new to this, aren't you?

Reason to obtena is what water is to a duck.

[Obtena]

I know that Lupus and so does most every other person doing NW. That's precisely why no one has an excuse to QQ about that power delta when they roll twinks that are in the range of those levels.