Nerf Traders Now...

[doctorzoidbyrg]

i know this isnt relevant to this thread per-se but i notice a lot of people complaining about OSB'd traders. well wtf? you can get OSB'd too, but you aren't, so you're getting whupped. OF COURSE YOU ARE.

what do i think?

i think OSB's should only be allowed in tower wars and i have a hard time wrapping my head around how someone managed to get OSBs in a BS round. (admittedly i am noobish)

[sultryvoltron]

i know this isnt relevant to this thread per-se but i notice a lot of people complaining about OSB'd traders. well wtf? you can get OSB'd too, but you aren't, so you're getting whupped. OF COURSE YOU ARE.

what do i think?

i think OSB's should only be allowed in tower wars and i have a hard time wrapping my head around how someone managed to get OSBs in a BS round. (admittedly i am noobish)

This argument falls apart when you realize that there is no OSB that I can get that will make up for the skills I lose when the Trader drains me with his OSB'd drains.

Even if I have Behe, HnQ, RRFE, etc. once the Trader drains me with drains they cast with Mochies, I no longer have any chance to kill them. There are no comparable benefits of OSB's to any other profession.

[Armus]

I've lost to agents in duels after getting one drain off. 170 sols don't perform well though againt traders in general. But then again u can't have it against everyone.

Name one class that can't:

A) Just stand toe to toe with the soldier and kill him either through tms or just after it runs out. Or bypass/strip it.

B) Root/snare/stun/blind/fear and run away temporarily and come back and finish the soldier once tms us down.

C) Root/snare/stun/blind/fear and just run away if needed. Or just plain run since soldier rs is the lowers ig together with engi.


I'll help you out:

A) Advie, fixer, nt, engi, doc and trader unless the soldier miraculously resists the drains after which the trader might have to go with option B.

B) MA, mp, crat, shade, enf, keeper and agent.

C) Any of the above classes can do this if they screw up miserably.

So.. In 1 vs 1 situations soldiers really won't own anyone unless they don't use the toolsets they have. The only situation where a tl5 soldier may do well in pvp is when you are fighting a short battle in a small confined place where you can't use LOS and can't retreat if needed. This pretty much limits it to duels. And as we all know it's not like tl5 soldiers are good at that either compared to many classes.

And this is today. Add 40s tms with low reflects and you'll see that at tl5 soldier is a lost cause altogether. Which is why some ppl I have talked to that was excited about 2s HD/300 ofab (which turned out wasn't feasable anyway because as a soldier you have to sacrifice a crapload of options to get there, unlike some other classes) on their soldiers are now already stripping their toons/never finishing them because they'll be useless.

ps. The s7 assault rifle is a joke as well. 20s FA and crap bursts since the max dmg is super low? Agents get 11s as at what, level 90?

[Anarchic1]

well m8, not every twink build is viable at every tl. Though I haven't play a tl5 sol, so I don't know the intricacies of one, so I can't accurately judge the validity of your statement. However, I know of a couple tl5 sols that did pretty well though. So it's not all doom as you say. Though, a hd setup at tl5 doesn't seem that viable tbh based on the reqs. Even with full symbs without putting on stamina buffing armor u'll be circa 700sh probs. So you prolly need to do strenght/stam sleeves, ai bracer and etc, prolly afew perks into stam lines.

[Armus]

well m8, not every twink build is viable at every tl.

Except traders which are number 1 from 1-126, largely uncontested and then top 3 all the way to 220. And I guess that's sort of what this thread is about.

[Anarchic1]

Except traders which are number 1 from 1-126, largely uncontested and then top 3 all the way to 220. And I guess that's sort of what this thread is about.

That is bs. There are several ranges of trader twinks that are dead. Like 90 nr 3 agents will destory a lower trader. nr 4 agents destroy tl4 traders. Enfs have a pretty good chance. I would say top 3 past from high tl3 to tl4. Tl5 in the top 5. Tl7 bottom rung.

[drancan]

u do know drains land very easy right? maybe for NR toons it helps a bit but NR is broken!

And it says enough people need to roll NR perked toons to kill traders.

[Ciex]

They land easy because if they didnt land fighting a trader would look like this:
1. q
2. 1234
3. ???
4. You gained pvp score.

[Armus]

That is bs. There are several ranges of trader twinks that are dead.

You mean ranges where traders aren't unkillable I take it.

Like 90 nr 3 agents will destory a lower trader

Usually yes. But losing to one single class. And not just that class in general but only to those who are nr3 doesn't mean that traders aren't the top class at that level, does it? It only means that there is one single class with one specialized setup that can beat a well twinked tl3 trader more than they will lose. Enf is decent as well here but overall trader is best by far.

. nr 4 agents destroy tl4 traders.

Not that I've seen more than one or two of these around ever. Most use mimic enf. But sure a well twinked nr agent will usually beat a trader. At 126 ish a trader will do serious dmg to the agent though. My point still stands though. Your reasoning seems to be that since traders arent unkillable they can't be number one. That is ofcourse a faulty logic. A trader will do well against many more classes than an nr agent will.

Enfs have a pretty good chance. I would say top 3 past from high tl3 to tl4. Tl5 in the top 5. Tl7 bottom rung.

Oh dear. I wonder if we're playing the same game. But I'm guessing you're still thinking that because you aren't unkillable you aren't at the top.

[Anarchic1]

noobius u're a waste of time to try to talk to some sense. You seem think if someone gets a drain off it's game over. Well i alphaed traders on my twinks/tl7 pvp toons with one drain on me. So i'm not going to bother responding to ur buhu posts.

and also 118 nr 4 agents perform really well. They stand their own against every prof at tl4. THough they have a hard problem killing mps But they still can go up against 126 enfs and beat em down.

[Obtena]

Looks like Noobius gave up on QQing about his TL5 NW twinks getting killed and found a new topic to be wrong about.

I can also confirm that traders are beatable, even with a drain on you. Playing smart is how you beat traders.

[drancan]

lol funny post, anyway i still beat traders with 1-2 drains on me but thats off topic. as u all know traders are still one of the Oped profs at tl1-4 for sure. At tl5 traders aint that oped u can still beat em with a drain on u.

Seems ur problem is fighting NR perked profs and maybe thats lame but it says enough that people actually need to perk NR to kill a trader.

[Armus]

Looks like Noobius gave up on QQing about his TL5 NW twinks getting killed and found a new topic to be wrong about.

And you're still deliberetely "misunderstanding" (trolling) everything I've ever said. I haven't said mucn about MY toons getting killed. What I've said is that the twink killers/pocketing etc is killing tl5 nw activity. That is all. But. you refuse to comment on the actual issue. You are a really sad troll.

I can also confirm that traders are beatable, even with a drain on you. Playing smart is how you beat traders.

And here we are again misunderstanding deliberetely. Traders are the overall best pvp class level tl1 to tl3 without competition. Tl4 they are still at top3, same at tl5. Tl7 still among the best.

[Armus]

noobius u're a waste of time to try to talk to some sense. You seem think if someone gets a drain off it's game over.

Every caster class from tl1-tl3 is instantly bricked if it happens. Pets won't respond, no nanos that you can cast will land on the trader and even if you do they are puny. The only class that has a chance with a drain in their ncu is enf. And that's only if he can get to the trader before he gets rooted becuse then you won't be able to rage out of it.

Well i alphaed traders on my twinks/tl7 pvp toons with one drain on me. So i'm not going to bother responding to ur buhu posts.

There are differently twinked traders you know. Some suck. Ofcourse they can be killed if they don't have an equally good setup as you!

Oh and you just did reply, didn't u?

and also 118 nr 4 agents perform really well. They stand their own against every prof at tl4. THough they have a hard problem killing mps But they still can go up against 126 enfs and beat em down.

118 nr agent vs 126 enf can only win if the enf is asleep or if the agent has gsf+wolf and the enf doesnt. 126 mimic enf agent is different. They are very tough for enf. Probably the toughest.

[Anarchic1]

um lvl 118 nr4 agents win with snare perks..... and obvi everyone causes osb to twink wars. that's how everyone rolls. Now u're bringing in tl3 traders into the fold. So which tl3 trader you talking about those lvl 56 traders? A lvl 56 trader is oped at that range though, not denying it. or the high tl3 traders circa lvl 80sh? tl3 twinks is dominated by nr 3 agents on rk2, so a lvl 80sh trader won't do well. So ppl made 109 traders for those 90 twinks, and 118/26 twinks facerolled those 109 twinks.


as for saying some traders are well played and others not, that's true of every prof.... Even the best played traders die. Seen it time after time again. So like omg someone get a drain of me i can no longer 12345 him as easy. well tough love. Cause if a nondrained opponent hits a trader, a trader drops fast. So is it fair to take away drains from traders and be like now everyone can splat traders without trying?

And stop saying that tl7 traders are the top, i don't know about how it is in rk1, we got only maybe 1 or 2 active tl7traders on rk2

[Obtena]

And here we are again misunderstanding deliberetely. Traders are the overall best pvp class level tl1 to tl3 without competition. Tl4 they are still at top3, same at tl5. Tl7 still among the best.

That changes nothing I said ... Traders are beatable if you play smart. I mean, maybe YOU turn your NW sessions into massive duels but on RK2, we assist and target and do all that advanced stuff to ensure that traders are taken out of the picture rather quickly.

[Wrangeline]

That changes nothing I said ... Traders are beatable if you play smart. I mean, maybe YOU turn your NW sessions into massive duels but on RK2, we assist and target and do all that advanced stuff to ensure that traders are taken out of the picture rather quickly.

It doesn't seem to me like the discussion here is whether or not you can kill a trader but rather how good a trader is overall compared to other classes at specific level ranges. Anyone can die to a "zerg" or even 2 well-timed alphas so that doesn't have anything to do with how good a profession is. NW these days, at least at lower level ranges, involve relatively low amount of people. Like 6 vs 6 at most, most of the time. So if 2-3 of those are twinked traders then you are pretty hosed unless you bring loads of NR-agents or super-twinked enfs that get to attack first. Then again, the issue wasn't whether or not you can kill traders, but what impact they have as individual characters. While NR-agents can make life hard for some professions 1 vs 1, they are weak versus other professions since they can't even root and have to rely on HoT's to tank anything. Traders can make life hard for everyone and they don't have to go for such a unique setup in order to do so.

Versus equal-leveled and geared characters, traders have a higher success-rate vs all professions than most others. There are very few, if any, level-ranges where a twinked trader isn't in the top 3. Traders have their weaknesses but their strengths keep them from ever going below the top 3 position at any title level. This is also true at endgame.

There are professions like Enfs, agents and so on that can outshine traders at specific level ranges but trader is good in a more consistent way. While some classes can outshine traders at a couple of narrow level ranges, traders can in turn outshine them, and more importantly all other professions, at a lot more level ranges.

It's just an average/overall type of thing.

Trader are far from unkillable. They are just consistently good, that's all. If twinked well, a trader is among the best easily. If not twinked well, trader is among the worst because they are so incredibly squishy if they haven't twinked their defenses perfectly. Especially at tl7. The difference between a perfectly twinked trader at 220 and a 90% twinked trader is absolutely huge.

[Obtena]

Actually the discussion is some rational for why a trader should be nerfed NOW vs. during re-balance. There IS no debate about how OPed a trader is at TL1-4. There are definite ways to counter them, but it doesn't lend itself to a healthy PVP environment. I don't see their OPed status as a reason to accelerate any changes FC has for traders prior to the re-balance patches.

[Wrangeline]

Actually the discussion is some rational for why a trader should be nerfed NOW vs. during re-balance. There IS no debate about how OPed a trader is at TL1-4. There are definite ways to counter them, but it doesn't lend itself to a healthy PVP environment. I don't see their OPed status as a reason to accelerate any changes FC has for traders prior to the re-balance patches.

Ye, I don't personally see a need to do anything with traders faster than any other professions either. If it was a really gamebreaking or PVP-ruining balance-problem then sure, it should have been fixed asap but yes, it's not that bad.

[Pomidor]

Trader has best twinking posibility atm (NCU, CL items). Along with drain options, its possible to twink high ql weapon. On both fields every well twinked trader will gain much power then any other class. Be sure to keep in mind that Def setup holds lots of possibility to twink into high evades+high ql armor (ie Comb Scout). My lvl 74 trader at full twink used to have 960 Dodge and 900 Evade. I could tank most enfs 1vs1 scenerio, and things were uber easy after 2nd drain, then ultra easy after blinds, and root was mostly neceserly. Add to that, I could tank soldeirs w/o draining them (just blinding). Still, I was not HP setuped or Nano setuped, and after many days of playing, I found better ways to setup char, to gain even more power. Isnt that Op'? I belive so, yes. You speak about NR Agents that kills traders and its true, but notice that its class with 11 sec AS, where you can get relativly easy good ql OSB for rifle, and this attack never misses and caps very often - and trader wont do a thing to such agent (cept losy AS), but also, this is actually one of 2 ways to beat treater. Second is Enf with NR setup, but even this has chances to fail.

From last experience, I had many figts with traders and they are alpable (126-150), but only those, who arent top geared and twinked into evades. For the most part, trader can hold 1 enemy on its own, if he knew how to play his char. But on this particular lvl, it seems that there are more proffesions, that stand chance (nano ones, thats for sure).

I hope something will be done to drains - Sugestions have been made, so maybe FC will change something in their toolset, which wont broke class, and will give more chances to stand vs them.