Nerf the NT strong roots

[Gatester]

It's ridiculous that an NT has to rely on being out of range of his attacker in the first place. It is not the case of OP'd roots needing to be addressed, but the NT's reliance on them.

Then how about losing evade benefits for your profession, maybe adding a minor evade reduction to DtN effects, then changing NT blinds in a way that gives players a static chance to resist regular hits and specials. The massive blind resistances would have to go, but it would in essence change it so only perks or nukes do the majority of damage too you.

It would also be much better to scale, as lower levels take less perk damage and more regular damage and higher levels mostly take perk damage alphas. By progressing the evade chance to match DPM avoided I think NTs would have much better survival.

Keep in mind, you still have CC tools for melee professions, so its a combination of damage mitigation, damage avoidance and CC ability.

[whitey]

Then how about losing evade benefits for your profession, maybe adding a minor evade reduction to DtN effects, then changing NT blinds in a way that gives players a static chance to resist regular hits and specials.

Apologies, but it's early morning and I'm not quite sure what you mean by this :P Do you mean something similar to keeper ward nano? As for losing evades, I don't think many NT's would jump at that :P We have about the same evades as traders, but their drains land much, much more often than our blinds.

The massive blind resistances would have to go

Actually, I think the blind resistance should stay, but only resist the 'blackscreen' effect (and the -AAO/whatever should land). This is the part of blinds which people hate (particularly on BS) and why 110% resist was introduced in the first place.

Keep in mind, you still have CC tools for melee professions, so its a combination of damage mitigation, damage avoidance and CC ability.

Yes, as long as CC isn't used as the main defence. Keeping someone out of range is currently our best defence.. Which is what I think definitely needs to be changed.

[Shrubberyman]

Then how about losing evade benefits for your profession, maybe adding a minor evade reduction to DtN effects, then changing NT blinds in a way that gives players a static chance to resist regular hits and specials. The massive blind resistances would have to go, but it would in essence change it so only perks or nukes do the majority of damage too you.

It would also be much better to scale, as lower levels take less perk damage and more regular damage and higher levels mostly take perk damage alphas. By progressing the evade chance to match DPM avoided I think NTs would have much better survival.

Keep in mind, you still have CC tools for melee professions, so its a combination of damage mitigation, damage avoidance and CC ability.

From what we have seen so far, the trend is rather to remove hindrances on toolsets (MR, SL essences, MA's buff...). So if anything, and beside Blind resistance nerfage, I'm expecting our toolset to get less of the stupid hindrances, penalties, debuffs, focus etc that had become a recurrent joke from dev to put on every new stuff designed for NTs, not more. Some toning down might be needed in the process (NS2 duration, IW's nano buff...), but that's fair enough.

As for Blinds, what you're proposing is seducing, but in essence it would be a Damage Resistance, and to be honest flat resistances, whether to blinds, roots, snares, stuns, ubt, or whatever need to get nerfed and nerfed hard.

[Obtena]

No. You're just simply wrong here. If there's no consideration of 1 vs 1 then we're balancing around a slippery slope where you make teams of all 14 professions to counteract the other team of all 14 professions. That's retarded.

But it's not retarded when you are able to counteract attacks for any 1 vs. 1 encounter? Yeah, OK. Glad I'm not playing that MMO when it comes out because no PVP encounter would ever end.

[-Klod-]

Keep in mind, you still have CC tools for melee professions, so its a combination of damage mitigation, damage avoidance and CC ability.

You also have CC tools. Use them.

[Djiax]

But it's not retarded when you are able to counteract attacks for any 1 vs. 1 encounter? Yeah, OK. Glad I'm not playing that MMO when it comes out because no PVP encounter would ever end.

Timing, pushing your button in a better order then the other guy, kiting, catching someone offguard / when his tool are down, digging stuff not everyone use, etc . . . Ideally any action that would make the fight go in your favor should have a minor effect or be on a long timer (1st aid stim, dot ring, MoR, a sharp object item, etc we need mroe of these), and an adition of small decisions should make you win. Not pressing an "I win" and bam.

Beside, the solution to all the peeps saying that it isn't possible to balance 1 vs 1 in such a way, i think one of the solution might be to introduce some inversed nemesis nano.

Current definition of a nemesis nano (or tool, whatever type it is) is a nano that makes the fight go heavely in your favor whenever you use it on the target it is designed to be used on

A nemesis tool/nano designed in such a way that it doesn't turn the fight heavely in your favor, but instead let you close the gap that naturally exist beetween your prof and the target's prof should be tought about.

Quick non-perfect exemple : NTs have it too easy against fixers because of their LE nukes, give fixer a 100% resist to LE nukes.

An other quick idea : Soljas have it really hard against engies, give em a tool that will fire Fast Attack + Brawl + Fling Shot + SNeak Attack with a 0-0 template so they can bypass the special shield (basically, an on demand microphone usable from range and w/o hotswapping for commodity). Or if you want to take the other alternative, make it so BR say target "can not equal" Soldier in its description.

Adjust the magnitude of such tool as needed (BR could debuff only 20% of solja reflect, or their on demand microphone could fire 3 special instead of 4, or 7 if needed etc).

[Gatester]

Apologies, but it's early morning and I'm not quite sure what you mean by this :P Do you mean something similar to keeper ward nano? As for losing evades, I don't think many NT's would jump at that :P We have about the same evades as traders, but their drains land much, much more often than our blinds.

Lets say, NT's lose the AAO reduction on blinds, and NT's lose an additional 200 evades total

but

NT blinds cause players to miss a regular or special hit (any of them) 50% of the time at 220. This could apply to mobs as well.

Do not hold me to those numbers, but my suggestion really just extends the damage mitigation of NT's via pseudo-evade style debuffing. It would mean NT's could rely more on max health and max nano rather than evade armor to avoid multitudes of damage styles.

[Ocene]

Lets say, NT's lose the AAO reduction on blinds, and NT's lose an additional 200 evades total

but

NT blinds cause players to miss a regular or special hit (any of them) 50% of the time at 220. This could apply to mobs as well.

Do not hold me to those numbers, but my suggestion really just extends the damage mitigation of NT's via pseudo-evade style debuffing. It would mean NT's could rely more on max health and max nano rather than evade armor to avoid multitudes of damage styles.

Rebalance is something that needs to work both ways. All I see in these forums is enforcers asking to nerf others while themselves are incredibly imbalanced.

Does it occur to you guys at all that the nerf bat should be swinging your way?

[Obtena]

^ Everyone is just a player that play mutilple professions. I think you are seeing people's ability to 'stick to the topic'.

[Gatester]

Rebalance is something that needs to work both ways. All I see in these forums is enforcers asking to nerf others while themselves are incredibly imbalanced.

Does it occur to you guys at all that the nerf bat should be swinging your way?

Considering I pvp with my NT and do pvm with my enforcer, you would be wise not to assume what player's intentions are.

I do not want enforcers to be OP when I pvp against them but I am sure as hell not going to support changes that cripple my enforcer in solo pvm, where the profession is already among the weakest.

You quoted the wrong player to make that sort of statement.

[Ocene]

Considering I pvp with my NT and do pvm with my enforcer, you would be wise not to assume what player's intentions are.

I do not want enforcers to be OP when I pvp against them but I am sure as hell not going to support changes that cripple my enforcer in solo pvm, where the profession is already among the weakest.

You quoted the wrong player to make that sort of statement.

Enforcers among weakest in PVM? You've got to be kidding me.
Ask Traders, NTs, Agents, Keepers and possibly others what they think about that.

Also,

How is nerfing NTs blinds going to affect Enforcers in PVM in any possible way?

That's what you proposed right?

[Gatester]

Enforcers among weakest in PVM? You've got to be kidding me.
Ask Traders, NTs, Agents, Keepers and possibly others what they think about that.

Lol, keepers weak in SOLO PVM? So much for your credibility. No point in even arguing with you if you think things like that as you have no idea. You might as well list every profession as being weaker in solo pvm than enforcers so you can at least get two or three correct.

Also,

How is nerfing NTs blinds going to affect Enforcers in PVM in any possible way?

That's what you proposed right?

50% chance to avoid regular hits or specials, yeah thats a major nerf right there. As specials and regular hits never actually hurt an NT, I suppose you are correct. If only NT's had emergency defenses for when someone is attempting to perk alpha them, then maybe it would be a better idea.

You also quoted me when spouting out nonsense about all enforcers only wanting to nerf others and wanting to avoid it themselves. The only nerfs I have complained about are ones that made my ability to do PVM solo even harder and I have supported many pvp nerfs to enforcers, so when you quote me to make that statement you are making ignorant and insulting accusations.

[Ocene]

Lol, keepers weak in SOLO PVM? So much for your credibility. No point in even arguing with you if you think things like that as you have no idea. You might as well list every profession as being weaker in solo pvm than enforcers so you can at least get two or three correct.

Now the definition of PVM is solo PVM? Very good. Keepers are good at that for sure. But I still see the vast majority of professions being less good than enforcers, even in solo PVM.

And you don't see many Keepers tanking a Sector42 or Beast, do you?
You don't see them with the vasts amounts of HP you guys can put together, nor with any aggro management tools you have that would help them be tanks.

50% chance to avoid regular hits or specials, yeah thats a major nerf right there. As specials and regular hits never actually hurt an NT, I suppose you are correct. If only NT's had emergency defenses for when someone is attempting to perk alpha them, then maybe it would be a better idea.

You also quoted me when spouting out nonsense about all enforcers only wanting to nerf others and wanting to avoid it themselves. The only nerfs I have complained about are ones that made my ability to do PVM solo even harder and I have supported many pvp nerfs to enforcers, so when you quote me to make that statement you are making ignorant and insulting accusations.

50%? What can I say....look at your setup, it's in your signature, you don't have a single AAO item anywhere. So you want a full AAD setup that hits all the time? Yeah right.

I'd like that too in fact. We all would like that in fact.

Be happy you have the Run Speed, NR, and ability to remove Snares/Roots at will, as it is, in addition to all the other goodies you guys have such as HD, Hots, coon, absorbs and so on.

[Gatester]

Now the definition of PVM is solo PVM?.

I do not want enforcers to be OP when I pvp against them but I am sure as hell not going to support changes that cripple my enforcer in solo pvm, where the profession is already among the weakest.

Keep digging that hole, if you get it deep enough you may end up in the WoW forums.

But I still see the vast majority of professions being less good than enforcers, even in solo PVM.

You could probably fit everything you know about AO in a 1kb notepad document.

And you don't see many Keepers tanking a Sector42 or Beast, do you?
You don't see them with the vasts amounts of HP you guys can put together, nor with any aggro management tools you have that would help them be tanks.

So what you are saying is, I should only solo with a raidforce helping me?

50%? What can I say....look at your setup, it's in your signature, you don't have a single AAO item anywhere. So you want a full AAD setup that hits all the time? Yeah right.

I'd like that too in fact. We all would like that in fact.

Be happy you have the Run Speed, NR, and ability to remove Snares/Roots at will, as it is, in addition to all the other goodies you guys have such as HD, Hots, coon, absorbs and so on.

This...I don't even know what to make of this. By asking for a 50% regular/special avoidance ability added to NT blinds I am somehow saying I want a full AAD enforcer to have 100% hit chance?

Honestly, can anyone explain this comment at all?

[howlin]

50%? What can I say....look at your setup, it's in your signature, you don't have a single AAO item anywhere. So you want a full AAD setup that hits all the time? Yeah right.

Qft, yet he whines how enforcers have low dmg

[Edta]

It's ridiculous that an NT has to rely on being out of range of his attacker in the first place. It is not the case of OP'd roots needing to be addressed, but the NT's reliance on them.

I'm not agreeing here. Crowd control is just another kind of defense and one that I like (merely because it's one you need to work for I guess). Taking away one form of defense simply results in less variation. Lots of variation between all profs is one of AO's strengths imo.

[Ocene]

This...I don't even know what to make of this. By asking for a 50% regular/special avoidance ability added to NT blinds I am somehow saying I want a full AAD enforcer to have 100% hit chance?

Honestly, can anyone explain this comment at all?

OK, I missread, thought you mentioned PVM in general.

Concerning 50% hit chances... roll a soldier, you'll know what missing 80% of the time means.

[Notcrattey]

OK, I missread, thought you mentioned PVM in general.

Concerning 50% hit chances... roll a soldier, you'll know what missing 80% of the time means.

Don't exaggerate.

[Gatester]

Qft, yet he whines how enforcers have low dmg

Buts I haz no ideas how to equipz mah gears?!? I haz dem aquarius calc and VTS and sniper fwend and obi-tom and full dirt brigade cwit armer and all xan melee wepun and melee damage aruls and berserker simb and lots of udder stuffs on mah enfo. But I cannot putz em in my spots and run my damage parser that tells me exactwy how mush damage I do (sad face, tear drop).

I only used one setup foreber and never tried anything but wut I haz in mah signader. Joo big man smart guy enfo expert, joo show meh how do put gear on and run damage parser for meh enfo? Den mebbe I do mo dayday den dem NTs, engies, crats, advy, keepers, shades, soldiers, MAs, MP's, traders, and fixers!!!1! Cuz dey onry gots pets and tons of cwit and tons of dayday adder and full otto's and super nuker damash and dee-oh-tee's and mega purk damash, but enfo's got ubah scale mod to weely push that damash.

So joo halp meh now with joo ubah skillz? I can barewy calc 6-slot on a lebel one so numbars aint mush gud fo meh (supah sad face) Tanks in ahead of time cool guy.

[Djiax]

I'm not agreeing here. Crowd control is just another kind of defense and one that I like (merely because it's one you need to work for I guess). Taking away one form of defense simply results in less variation. Lots of variation between all profs is one of AO's strengths imo.

I agree with that statments as long as it isn't so one sided as in an enf vs NT fight, in which the NT wins if he manage to be out of range of the enfo long enough, but go splat very quick if he doesn't. I mean there is no way a NT can kill an enf without staying out of range for 80%+ of the fight.

Personnally what i like the most about "crowd" control is to manage crowd of players while solo or outnumbered. That means that what i d like would be that CC tool were weaker 1 vs 1, but stronger versus multi opponents. I dunno exactly how to make it work like that, but think about multi target defenses (statics/personnal evade), layers, or the best exemple in game, NT's NS2, which have more efficiency against multi target, as opposed to AAO/AR debuff if not AoE (trader drains, NT single blinds, dazzle with lights) that you use on one target at a time, or NT's NBG which will absorb exactly the same amount of damage if you face 1 or 6 opponents, or heals, etc.

In such a design, CC shouldn't have the power it has versus en enf once it starts landing and you "locked" the enfo into your game.

Stuns could benefit from the same treatment imo, less stun, a local cooldown on target once a stun has landed to avoid the target to be perma stunned for too long (or versus multi opponents which each use and refresh a different stun), and more AoE stuns.