All The Necessary Changes Needed To Balance The Majority Of PvP

[howlin]

The problem is the length. Completely useless for 3 minutes straight. I am not suggesting the positive effect returned the the trader be changed, just the debuff duration. 30 seconds is still plenty. Like i've said before, if you are going to keep someone useless, then you need to be actively doing so.

edit : if 30 seconds is legitimately too short, 45 seconds would have to be the absolute maximum.

Keeping positive effect same wont help the trader survive. In case of high NR professions like enforcer or NT its hard to even land both drains if not almost impossible,
now you say that they should last only 30 seconds.
Oh and the whole "Like i've said before, if you are going to keep someone useless, then you need to be actively doing so.", if you are going to ignore 87% of my dmg you should atl east work for it.
Lets make AMS last 30 seconds with same duration on NSD.
The duration is fine imo, once you die/kill you remove it.

[Marinegent]

Only if it affects pvp only then, 1 min max would do it. But you have to admit that 6 minutes of red tape is not very annoying, compared to 2 minutes of fixer evade drain (which cannot be removed as well).

Yes. I have stated PvP only. Durations should be increased in pvm where there are constantly large groups of mobs to debuff.
And yes, fixer drains are annoying and have been equally targeted in the post.

[Marinegent]

Keeping positive effect same wont help the trader survive. In case of high NR professions like enforcer or NT its hard to even land both drains if not almost impossible,
now you say that they should last only 30 seconds.
Oh and the whole "Like i've said before, if you are going to keep someone useless, then you need to be actively doing so.", if you are going to ignore 87% of my dmg you should atl east work for it.
Lets make AMS last 30 seconds with same duration on NSD.
The duration is fine imo, once you die/kill you remove it.

Drains are not your only defense. AMS is a soldiers (arguably) only defense. You also have things like GTH, BR, corporate protection, absorbs, spec blockers, etc. Also just like with crats, i have considered their side and changed my initial number of "30 seconds" to "45 seconds" as I did with traders.. had you read..

Eh, so in effect, you're saying 'this thread has no point whatsoever'?

As the rebalance efforts by funcom are still in beta stages, its never too late to turn around. They did with the engine, they could do it again.

I hope someone from funcom see's this and reconsiders the huge overhaul they have planned which will probably just break the game. I even sent Means a PM.

[howlin]

Then there is a nano you need to cast once every 4h that completely ignores 38% of my dmg done to you.
Not to mention the easy obtainable armor that gives you PERMANENT 5% protection from my dmg?

[Marinegent]

Then there is a nano you need to cast once every 4h that completely ignores 38% of my dmg done to you.
Not to mention the easy obtainable armor that gives you PERMANENT 5% protection from my dmg?

What is your point? I havent even gotten around to typing up profession changes.

You can kill a soldier through pre-nullity in 15 seconds.

edit : One drain and you cannot AMS. Cast borrow reflect and that 43% static drops quickly.

[cbus97]

I'm against hidden profession-based modifiers on skills. That just seems like a balance band-aid and leads to cookie-cuttering.

2500 runspeed on a fixer should be as fast 2500 runspeed on a doctor. If you want fixers to be the fastest, make it so they can get 3500 run speed and no other prof can.

If a keeper wants to use aimed shot, let him. He gets that same aimed shot as agents. But give it a defense check that scales sharply in favor of high skill, so he really has to work at it (and make major IP sacrifices) to make it useful.

etc.

[howlin]

What is your point? I havent even gotten around to typing up profession changes.

You can kill a soldier through pre-nullity in 15 seconds.

edit : One drain and you cannot AMS. Cast borrow reflect and that 43% static drops quickly.

And we come to the lol part of the whole thread.
Thank you.

[Weltall]

Hot swapping : Hot swapping is an integral part of the game. The only issue is instant swapping weapons that professions like MA's use to alpha people which outputs ridiculous amounts of DD. The simple fix is a universal swap time, but that isnt necessarily the best. It should remain, but exactly how to adjust in one tweak is beyond me. The weapons themselves may need re-adjusting.

Yeah um the only issue I see with hotswapping is MRing m150/PE agents actually.

[Hellrule]

What is your point? I havent even gotten around to typing up profession changes.

You can kill a soldier through pre-nullity in 15 seconds.

edit : One drain and you cannot AMS. Cast borrow reflect and that 43% static drops quickly.

forgot you can't cast tms while drained.

[Hellrule]

Yes. I have stated PvP only. Durations should be increased in pvm where there are constantly large groups of mobs to debuff.
And yes, fixer drains are annoying and have been equally targeted in the post.

Besides the fact you know nothing of crats let me also give you a quick lesson.

-250 = 6 mins
-250/-400 = 1.5-2mins
-1k = 1min

Besides the fact you want to nerf this into oblivion, lets not forget besides crats evades, this is their only form of negating damage (which does 0 against capped speed special attacks.) So lets say I have to cast each and every one of these every 10 secs to maintain them.

I have virtually no time to nuke you with my nuke, keep up my short term pet buffs, and use any of my CC tools.

Unless you want to give crats multiple cool downs on virtually half of this tool set nothing needs to be changed without turning our tools into uselessness. Our debuffs just need to be removable out of battle, and this whole "nerf debuff" nonsense is tossed aside.

[Marinegent]

Besides the fact you know nothing of crats let me also give you a quick lesson.

-250 = 6 mins
-250/-400 = 1.5-2mins
-1k = 1min

Besides the fact you want to nerf this into oblivion, lets not forget besides crats evades, this is their only form of negating damage (which does 0 against capped speed special attacks.) So lets say I have to cast each and every one of these every 10 secs to maintain them.

I have virtually no time to nuke you with my nuke, keep up my short term pet buffs, and use any of my CC tools.

Unless you want to give crats multiple cool downs on virtually half of this tool set nothing needs to be changed without turning our tools into uselessness. Our debuffs just need to be removable out of battle, and this whole "nerf debuff" nonsense is tossed aside.

Modify Attack/recharge and capped casting times as needed. Then you can use your CC/etc. The game becomes better as a whole.

As for the pets thing, ive already stated that it is its own issue which needs its own course of addressing.

If you had waited for me to fill in the profession section i was actually going to target all pet professions and the buffing time it takes and the hassle maintenance to keep up with it.

Yeah um the only issue I see with hotswapping is MRing m150/PE agents actually.

Mongo rage start and end part of the perk interrupts swaps now, as i am sure was added to address that. I don't personally think most hotswaps need nerfing, but i have heard many complaints about it regarding MA's. The section is just there until there is reason to change it brought forth and a good way to address it.

[Taranide]

Running target should have some sort of -AAD period for the time of moving, since you can't really concentrate into evading then. Also, it would be nice to see an AR lowering and increasing, depending what your distance to enemy is at the moment.

[Weltall]

Mongo rage start and end part of the perk interrupts swaps now, as i am sure was added to address that. I don't personally think most hotswaps need nerfing, but i have heard many complaints about it regarding MA's. The section is just there until there is reason to change it brought forth and a good way to address it.

People complain about MAs? Interesting, never once heard anyone complain.

[Marinegent]

People complain about MAs? Interesting, never once heard anyone complain.

Just agents who get init debuffed and sometimes people complain about the swapping they do.

That's about all.

[crattey]

I hope someone from funcom see's this and reconsiders the huge overhaul they have planned which will probably just break the game. I even sent Means a PM.

Here's the more likely scenario; someone from FC will see this and judge it to be yet another shortsighted, one-sided and incredibly biased thread. Which it is. Your view on crats being a nice example; Without a proper understanding of the profession and it's toolset, you nonetheless claim to know what should be changed about it in order to presumably make your personal PvP experiences more enjoyable.

Not to say FC will do a great deal better, mind you. Considering they have an incredibly small dev team, not only do I strongly doubt that FC has a full understanding of every profession, I'm fairly certain even that they lack the ability to do any proper testing themselves.

I still expect them to have a far better view of the situation, however, than you do. And you seem to go to great lengths to help support this view.

[Marinegent]

Your view on crats being a nice example; Without a proper understanding of the profession and it's toolset, you nonetheless claim to know what should be changed about it in order to presumably make your personal PvP experiences more enjoyable.

I have stated many times already that this is open for discussion. I have already made changes to the original post to reflect the opinions and input of other players.

You don't understand the situation. You bring forth a valid issue with some factual evidence, we debate the issue for a little, then maybe i see your side and I do infact have an open mind when it comes to these things.

I have already changed an initial suggestion which is proof enough of that. If you have something positive to offer to this thread, go for it. We can discuss things. Walking in here going "lol ima troll this marinegent cause im lonely and this is epic lulz" makes you look like the asshat, not me.

You believe you are witty and that you can prove a point with an insult.. well you can't.

[crattey]

I'm not lonely. And this thread remains pointless. You might as well suggest that they drop all the work they've done on swapping to the AoC engine in favour of [insert engine name]. They won't. So why bother?

Besides, I'm not being insulting when I call you biased, nor when I call this thread pointless. This is the internet mate, stop emoraging.

Hell, I'll add something and call you incredibly presumptuous to start a thread titled 'All The Necessary Changes Needed To Balance The Majority Of PvP'.

[Meira]

Carlo (not Carlos) does not have anywhere close to 4400 attack rating, he has about 2250 and CANNOT be buffed with any pet specific buffs except Master's Bidding (he is a "charm"). And before telling others to l2play, you should go check auno/ao universe and make sure your numbers are correct. Speaking about more than just Carlo's AR.

And if we are mentioning init debuffs, how about that unremovable -2,569 init pet debuff that lasts two and a half minutes? Namely Decreptitude. It's better than a calm on pets, since we can at least remove a calm. It also lands 100% of the time. UBT too.

You mean, the decreptitude he said should last 30s?

Most of those numbers are correct, regardless of whether Carlo's attack rating is mistaken or not. Yes, I know Overrule is a temporary perk. That's a given. It lasts no "very short" duration, it's 20s, which for 500 add all defense and 410 nano resist, is more than enough, especially in PvP. An orgamization member of mine has 3800 add all defense and evades on his bureaucrat, and he isn't fully set up (no aimed shot pistol, no hold hell at bay, several armor and utilities upgrades missing).

I mean, I guess if you just hit 212 yesterday, you may still take capped aimed shots and full autos.

Need more "end of the world for bureaucrats" responses.

Besides the fact you know nothing of crats let me also give you a quick lesson.

-250 = 6 mins
-250/-400 = 1.5-2mins
-1k = 1min

Besides the fact you want to nerf this into oblivion, lets not forget besides crats evades, this is their only form of negating damage (which does 0 against capped speed special attacks.) So lets say I have to cast each and every one of these every 10 secs to maintain them.

I have virtually no time to nuke you with my nuke, keep up my short term pet buffs, and use any of my CC tools.

Unless you want to give crats multiple cool downs on virtually half of this tool set nothing needs to be changed without turning our tools into uselessness. Our debuffs just need to be removable out of battle, and this whole "nerf debuff" nonsense is tossed aside.

This response leads me to believe not many people that put responses here have a great insight into PvP. The other responses make me believe the professionals system is failing.

I feel trader drains are fine. 1m 20s would be the minimum time they should be, they have virus scanners already.

If you really doubt him, wait until he has every profession listing up. When you place some spastic [Most sort of asinine, rediculous, and shortminded] response as most people have already, clearly without looking at his first copypaste, claiming that everything will fall apart and they will no longer be playable, you basically throw yourself out of consideration.

To make this clear, I don't ever remember him saying that bureaucrat red tape should be specifically 10 to 15s long. Seems like some sort of intentional skew to me.

[flaminbull]

...

In all seriousness, you have already proven that you know nothing,nada,whatever about bureaucrat pvp.. But that is not my point - you can't make an argument and not back it up with RELEVANT data,input - I could quote every post of yours in this thread and tear it apart, but what for? I guess there is enough capable people reading around who has not attached his head in his backside.

Cheers.

[Shareida]

It is quite entertaining to see, that NONE of your proposed changes would even remotely influence any of YOUR listed characters negatively. Keep it up