Who needs go up and who down survey ?

[Solidstriker]

and Engies.

If engies weren't at the top of the PVP food chain, with every tool known in game, I'd say they're pretty balanced, except that they have every tool in game, and properly setup endgame engies don't lose, duels, in BS, in mass pvp.

If you don't lose, I think you deserve a nerf. But thats just me.

Ah yes, my overpowered engineer enjoys near 100% root immunity and can remove all the nasty roots and snares with greater purge at a moment's notice, and my absorbs coupled with excellent evades can give me a godmode period of 30 seconds.

I can use most other professions's toolset because of my ingenuity and craftsmanship.

My CC is complimented by fears, snares, roots and stuns. On top of that, one of my pets can even dance, take that!

Let's not forget my heal perks which do both AoE heals with more than one available and UBT removal perks for when I have that annoying debuff. Initiative debuffs and DoTs, too.

I have a devastating alpha which init debuffs, stuns and does a massive amount of damage to the target. For the time being, I can usually even get away with relative ease.

My engineer can cast a grid nano to get itself out of any place and any trouble. I can also cast a nano to mess with my opponent's NCU.

My engineer has an amazing defensive toolset, not so much against ranged but at least I can kill them.. wait, no I can't!

I have a few initiative debuffs and can swap a bow on and off while having a 5 minute dimach. My healing also gives HD.

I can completely shut down nano casting on my target through either a nano or a proc while having access to either a nice offensive weapon or a nice defensive one. Blockers too! (for now)

My damage completely ignores reflects and only requires one debuff for 100% land rate. I can also debuff initiatives, because that's not enough on its own. Root and blind for extra suffering.

I can come out of sneak onto a target who has its back to me and either drain up or kill them within a few seconds. I also have stuns, woohoo!

My reflects let me mitigate most damage completely, and my attack rating isn't too shabby. It's a shame I can't perk people who use acrobat, otherwise I'd be the king!

My drains and roots nullify the offensive and defensive powers of my targets, so if they do not escape before it's too late, they're goners.



With all of this power behind engineers, no wonder they're on top!

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Ah yes, my overpowered engineer enjoys near 100% root immunity and can remove all the nasty roots and snares with greater purge at a moment's notice, and my absorbs coupled with excellent evades can give me a godmode period of 30 seconds.

I can use most other professions's toolset because of my ingenuity and craftsmanship.

My CC is complimented by fears, snares, roots and stuns. On top of that, one of my pets can even dance, take that!

Let's not forget my heal perks which do both AoE heals with more than one available and UBT removal perks for when I have that annoying debuff. Initiative debuffs and DoTs, too.

I have a devastating alpha which init debuffs, stuns and does a massive amount of damage to the target. For the time being, I can usually even get away with relative ease.

My engineer can cast a grid nano to get itself out of any place and any trouble. I can also cast a nano to mess with my opponent's NCU.

My engineer has an amazing defensive toolset, not so much against ranged but at least I can kill them.. wait, no I can't!

I have a few initiative debuffs and can swap a bow on and off while having a 5 minute dimach. My healing also gives HD.

I can completely shut down nano casting on my target through either a nano or a proc while having access to either a nice offensive weapon or a nice defensive one. Blockers too! (for now)

My damage completely ignores reflects and only requires one debuff for 100% land rate. I can also debuff initiatives, because that's not enough on its own. Root and blind for extra suffering.

I can come out of sneak onto a target who has its back to me and either drain up or kill them within a few seconds. I also have stuns, woohoo!

My reflects let me mitigate most damage completely, and my attack rating isn't too shabby. It's a shame I can't perk people who use acrobat, otherwise I'd be the king!

My drains and roots nullify the offensive and defensive powers of my targets, so if they do not escape before it's too late, they're goners.



With all of this power behind engineers, no wonder they're on top!

you're doing it wrong.

it's /pet attack

afk win. no?

[Solidstriker]

Yeah, this game is so simple, I'm glad you have it all figured out, teach us more please.

[-LL-]

eNSD is currently 15 secs 100%, should keep that imo, then 10 secs 90%, 5 secs 80%, something like that

yes, this idea is nice. But it's the recharge we want to look at also. 2/3 of duration wasted in recharge, is BAD for a casting prof when the nano gets removed so easily.

[alabraxa]

Is this PvP or PvM? If both, I would say
UP:
MAs
Pets Healdelta or dmg
All special attacks except for Sneak Attack/Aimed Shot
Shotgun, not trader but shotguns
Pistol
Keepers (AoR)

NERF:
AS/SA
CH in PvP
Trader Drains
Advys
1he
Prices on GMS -.-

I am sure there is more stuff, but I can't think of any more right now.

[sultryvoltron]

NERF:
CH in PvP

Hahahah, TL5.

[Mostadio]

and Engies.

If engies weren't at the top of the PVP food chain, with every tool known in game, I'd say they're pretty balanced, except that they have every tool in game, and properly setup endgame engies don't lose, duels, in BS, in mass pvp.

If you don't lose, I think you deserve a nerf. But thats just me.

Dood, really? I had a nice retort to this all typed up but... I'm not going to waste words on it. I think you really need to shut up and get a clue. Quit crying and look into the profession you're complaining about. AS PISTOL IS GOING AWAY. SHUT UP ABOUT IT. AS IS GETTING REWORKED. STOP BRINGING IT UP. Actually, just roll an engineer, lvl it to 220, kit it out, and TRY to pvp on it. I dare you. It's a lot harder than it seems.

Every tool in the game? Like our superior NR? Our awesome evades? Our crippling debuffs? Our amazing crowd control abilities? Our ability to choose between mediocre AR and a craptastic AS or craptastic AR and mediocre AS? Man, wipe the drool off your chin and actually spend some time looking at a profession before frothing at the mouth and spouting drivel.

[Taranide]

Guess this is more about PvP aspect, so here goes. Oh, and I'm not taking into account "incoming changes" since they are still too much of a speculation.

Boost:
Meta-Physicist - They just need to become efficient. Shield has horrible offense and bow terrible defense. Go figure.
Keeper - Needs offensive boost.
Agent - So vulnerable and inefficient. AS, CH and TMS being main tools ain't cutting it. Defensive support needed.

Fix:
Shade - Difference between defensive and offensive setup is too radical. Trox shouldn't be compulsory choice.
Martial Artist - Needs sensibility in damage and ability to catch up with target.
Fixer - Nice, but way too luck reliant damage at hand. Also, acro stuff doesn't really compensate with any panic buttons most professions have.
Soldier - Boost their offense and I'll hit you in the face. Give them some variety to defenses since reflects really ain't the stuff.

Don't touch:
Bureucrat - Dunno, for some reason I find them doing okay against everyone. Not if it has MR ofc, but that can annoy any evade toon. If you really want to do something, might as well as make some init debuff stuff removable, but I don't see it essential (even when fighting against one)
Trader - You can't make them much worse yet you can make them awfully OP again. I think it's okay now, they manage.
Enforcer - Just fix 1hb perks and leave the profession as it is.
Nano-Technician - They're fine.

Kill it with fire:
Engineer - Where other pet owners might marginally need some boost engineer's pets need their AR template fixed. It's enough they are hard to kill and all, they don't really need to be faster killers than a shade for example.
Adventurer - Debate since SL. Their offensive needs to be toned down. Defense doesn't need to be nerfed much really.
Doctor - Malpractice and superb healing. Combine with constant AS, init debuffs. You do the math. Not everyone has super damage against 25k HP-durr machine.

Just to be fair I marked long term personal experiences with green color. And this stuff goes mainly on TL7.

EDIT: Short list for TL5.

Boost: Keeper, shade, pet professions.
Nerf: Trader, Agent.

[Marinegent]

Dood, really? I had a nice retort to this all typed up but... I'm not going to waste words on it. I think you really need to shut up and get a clue. Quit crying and look into the profession you're complaining about. AS PISTOL IS GOING AWAY. SHUT UP ABOUT IT. AS IS GETTING REWORKED. STOP BRINGING IT UP. Actually, just roll an engineer, lvl it to 220, kit it out, and TRY to pvp on it. I dare you. It's a lot harder than it seems.

Every tool in the game? Like our superior NR? Our awesome evades? Our crippling debuffs? Our amazing crowd control abilities? Our ability to choose between mediocre AR and a craptastic AS or craptastic AR and mediocre AS? Man, wipe the drool off your chin and actually spend some time looking at a profession before frothing at the mouth and spouting drivel.

Regardless of your disagreement with noobas, engi's are still the strongest one on one profession in the game.

It seems engi's complain where there are multiple players in the area. So, the solution (thought harder to implement than it is to word) is to bring engineers 1 v 1 abilities or strengths down some, to boost their 1 v 1< abilities and strengths.

edit : And i do not mean more blockers or any junk like that. something a little more creative.

[Stigman]

Every tool in the game? Like our superior NR? Our awesome evades? Our crippling debuffs? Our amazing crowd control abilities? Our ability to choose between mediocre AR and a craptastic AS or craptastic AR and mediocre AS? Man, wipe the drool off your chin and actually spend some time looking at a profession before frothing at the mouth and spouting drivel.

Thanks for that, that made me proper chuckle, nice one

Down
==================
Any prof that casts snares/roots/debuff

Up
==================
Engi ofc

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Dood, really? I had a nice retort to this all typed up but... I'm not going to waste words on it.

You had a nice retort but .... what?

you wasted all your breath on QQing about my QQ?

funny.

no, most, I appreciate your constructive criticism, but, you also have to see your prof for what it is: the fastest kill prof in AO.

You're at the pinnacle of the 1 on 1 PVP. you have all the defensive tools IF you choose to use them:

Absorbs, refelcts, Evades (don't tell me you haven't figured out DVP yet), and the most retarded number of special blockers in the creation of the game, AND, the best defence of all: the strongest offense in game.

Yes, Ranged advies are just as OP'd, with all the tools as well, but, engies are just as bad. So, as much heat as R-advy get, for now, engi deserve just as much.

[Adva]

Nevermind..

[McKnuckleSamwich]

I'm sorry dude but seriously, DVP? It's broken on the first point of damage, add to that the fact that engis have the lowest evades in game and I can promise you, it's useless. Reflects? They're mediocre at best.

You really have no idea about engi pvp do you?

hur hur. you think like rock, but thats cool.

DVP offers -1210 AAO. count it.

800evades from DOF, 200 evades from limber. ok we're at 1000.

lets see: another 200 from the static modifiers in the line, +another 10.

Ok, so, you pop DVP and stop attacking, and you just got ALL the advantage of an MA or advies primary defence.

Not too hard to calc that.

Ok, so, you say refelcts are... what? mediocrre? hmm. ok, lets see:
You have a base reflect of 24+3 for coon for 27 overall.

You have say 19k HP, because you have a decent setup: Add reflects to that, and you have 19k/(1-0.27) = 26k effective HP.

Which profs can kill through 26kHP+10k absorbs+ no specials?

Are you sure your reflects are mediocre?

Maybe you just haven't figured out how to use them.

BTW, the best non-soldier (OSBable) reflects in game add 30: 27/30 = 90%.

If I had 90% of the best reflects available to be, I certainly wouldn't be complaining.

[Mountaingoat]

DVP breaks on any damage. That means damage shields and reflect damage too. If we hit them it breaks and if they hit us it breaks. It also breaks on any debuff, like our snare aura f/e. Add to that NSD has a higher stacking order than DVP, so we have to manually click to remove NSD in our ncu before casting DVP (oops I cancelled blockers by mistake?...). Just thought you should know.

[Mountaingoat]

DVP offers -1210 AAO. count it.

800evades from DOF, 200 evades from limber. ok we're at 1000.

lets see: another 200 from the static modifiers in the line, +another 10.

Ok, so, you pop DVP and stop attacking, and you just got ALL the advantage of an MA or advies primary defence.

What a harebrained comparison. Even with -1210 aao to the engi, it's still considerably below the STATIC def rating of an Adv and especially an MA. And seeing my preceding post, it poofs on the first reg hit they land, even if I stop attacking. DVP also faces an NR check unlike DoF/Limber and furthermore there are things like massive flat immunity hud items that deny it outright.

[howlin]

Up:
1. Anything I play.

Down:
1. Anything that counters what I play.
2. Anything I find annoying.

Seems the whole thread has gone this way
not unexpected thou

[Weltall]

hur hur. you think like rock, but thats cool.

DVP offers -1210 AAO. count it.

800evades from DOF, 200 evades from limber. ok we're at 1000.

lets see: another 200 from the static modifiers in the line, +another 10.

Ok, so, you pop DVP and stop attacking, and you just got ALL the advantage of an MA or advies primary defence.

While I agree engis do need a nerf, your rant about DVP is nonsense.

First, it's affected by blind resist, which most ppl use
Second, it breaks on ANYTHING, that's right, even damage shields
Third engis don't have much static evades to begin with
Fourth, it needs to go through target NR and can't be spammed (8s recharge)
Fifth, you can't have both NSD and DVP running at the same time.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

Gah, you engi sympathizers are whiny buggers:

Defense skills: Nano resist 0 %


THATS DVP. Sure, if you've got 110% blind resist, great, but most peeps don't.

Your arguments are retarded. DVP deosn't break on dmg shield or reflect dmg, it doesn't break when the person attacks you. In FACT, it often doesn't break on low damage hits. I've seen it go the duration of the debuff, not in PVP mind you, but I can garauntee that the mobs are being hit hella hard during that 22 seconds.

Now, just in my personal experience, I've seen engineers pop a DVP and sit down for a bit, because nobody in vicinity can hit them during that time.

Any of you engies bitching about ZOMG 2 on 1 is SO OP'D, try this: next timer youre in a OMG it's more than 1 on 1 I /emo quit, choose a target who relies on AR to kill you, like MA, shade or melee advy or enforcer, sold, or fixer, or whatever, pop DVP, and sick your pets on the OTHER guy. Make sure you're within range of the melee prof, which you should be... and watch your pets chew thru the nanoish prof while melee prof stands there wondering why his Champion line perks are missing an engi.

Figure your toolset out before QQing.

Oh, and btw, NSD is offensive, DVP is defensive. If you can't switch after a fight, you're retarded, soz to say.

[Weltall]

Gah, you engi sympathizers are whiny buggers:

Defense skills: Nano resist 0 %


THATS DVP. Sure, if you've got 110% blind resist, great, but most peeps don't.

Your arguments are retarded. DVP deosn't break on dmg shield or reflect dmg, it doesn't break when the person attacks you. In FACT, it often doesn't break on low damage hits. I've seen it go the duration of the debuff, not in PVP mind you, but I can garauntee that the mobs are being hit hella hard during that 22 seconds.

Now, just in my personal experience, I've seen engineers pop a DVP and sit down for a bit, because nobody in vicinity can hit them during that time.

Any of you engies bitching about ZOMG 2 on 1 is SO OP'D, try this: next timer youre in a OMG it's more than 1 on 1 I /emo quit, choose a target who relies on AR to kill you, like MA, shade or melee advy or enforcer, sold, or fixer, or whatever, pop DVP, and sick your pets on the OTHER guy. Make sure you're within range of the melee prof, which you should be... and watch your pets chew thru the nanoish prof while melee prof stands there wondering why his Champion line perks are missing an engi.

Figure your toolset out before QQing.

Oh, and btw, NSD is offensive, DVP is defensive. If you can't switch after a fight, you're retarded, soz to say.

Nope seems like you're retarded. DVP is 100% check.

[crattey]

I R kno engiz

That post is ignorance taken to it's most extreme.. How can you possibly manage to get so many thing so incredibly wrong in a relatively short post?