Tanking well with less nano taunt strength is more of a team effort for sure, and there will be more aggro jumping around once in a while, but it is totally doable.
Tanking well with less nano taunt strength is more of a team effort for sure, and there will be more aggro jumping around once in a while, but it is totally doable.
Last edited by Biancha; Dec 22nd, 2010 at 19:15:14.
In my experience of playing an enforcer for 5 years and dealing with crappy taunts, the introduction of the LE taunt procs, and the improvement of mongo and malice the changes to taunts are drastic but I feel they will work when the enforcer is focused on tanking.
LE taunt procs, SL taunt procs, enf damage, and imalice making up most of the taunting will perform exceptionally well on single mob agg management. I feel that mongo is there to get the attention of the mobs in the area, which is obvious, and shouldn't be the main source of taunting.
I think that maybe in the lower levels enforcers should have more taunt power. But I dont have much background on what a lowbie enforcer needs, its been so long since I have fiddled with one. I should get around to rolling a soli some time soon.
Last edited by MachSchau; Dec 22nd, 2010 at 19:23:33.
I do too. I think that putting the top level mongo taunt back to 10k is a bit drastic though, especially for enforcers trying to do their job at earlier levels, given the huge specials people can hit even at 150.Originally Posted by MachSchau
It's really hard to say without the complete picture though.
Okies, making a wall of tex with my opnions:
General view: The nanos is now well scalled. Most of middle lvl nanos got improvements but all the end game ones got nerfed, really fking nerfed.
Hellish Rage, Dreadbringer, Element nanos and MM: The 1.4k MM requirement on Dreadbringer is hard for most PVP setup so far. I find its really Ok, its a PVM only nano anyway.
The 1.6k MM requirement on new enf doc Hellish Rage is doable BUT really really really silly. Why turn up the requirements on Enf nano while others non-caster profs got it turned down?
Making the DD Proc on Element nanos based on MM is far more silly than 1.6k MM on Hellish Rage. Period.
HP: I know that the ammount of HP that any Enf can afford is far far far overpowered BUT almost in all enconters today the bosses hits 10k non-crit and are imunne to almost everything. If you doesnt change the mobs damage too, take away the Enfs big HP is so much to ask.
Taunts: If Enfs are supose to be the first tank choice, why take the taunts? I dont get it at all. 10k taunt cant ever take aggro from a MP at end lvls. So imagine it against Soldiers, Shades and Doc's Heals. I cant see Enfs holding aggro with it.
Yes, we have taunt procs, items and perks, but they are far less than 10k taunt AND you take away completely the only proc with good ammount of taunt (Ice Burn)!
Challenger: 160ish NCU requirement?!! WTF!
Rage and the Run Speed nerf: Nerf for sure, but with big HP buffs losing RS debuff, its not really that bad. Well Ok for me.
Nano cost so far: Its will be applied for all proffesions. And I agree with it. Its so easy to stay with "infinite" nano ever in an Atrox w/o NaCost items.
Last edited by lainbr; Dec 23rd, 2010 at 18:00:40. Reason: mispells
Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
Proud veteran of Spartans
To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.
Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.
Enforcers aren't going to be using mongo as their main source of taunting, most of the taunting will be coming from single taunts and procs.
...That is going to be nerfed as wellImprove the nano proc taunts and I will be happy. Cant garantee about the others.
Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
Proud veteran of Spartans
To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.
Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.
This nano document is retarded and written by people that do not play enforcers or probly the game at all.
This is Funcom doing what it does: listening to the QQ community and completely destroying a profession because people do not like it.'
These NCU, skill and nano requirements are beyond ridiculous and focused solely on making pvm enforcer totally combat ineffective
"Can I have some shoes?"
Not really. With LE taunt procs and SL taunt procs running, plus imalice, I dont see single mob agg being a problem and people should be assisting anyways when multiple mobs are around. Trust me, I played an enf when we didn't have the luxury of the improved taunting on mongo and malice. It was difficult back then, but manageable. With the changes it is doable and will require the tank to put some effort in, unlike now....That is going to be nerfed as well
The biggest worry should be about lowbies, but meh.
I think lainbr meant the taunt proc on Ice Burn is getting removed
Some of the best experiences I've ever had in AO happened last year when i was able to trick raids into letting me tank before i was 215. I had to work my butt off for sure with only mongo taunt and no useful single taunt nano but it was really, really fun doing so.
That experience makes me sure we'll have enough taunt to do a good job, even if the currently proposed "balanced" state does not change. We will have to be active 100% of the time in raids though to tank well, and we'll also need raid forces to retrain themselves and cooperate a bit better. That's the main thing I'm worried about really.
Last edited by Biancha; Dec 24th, 2010 at 02:06:55.
Yeah, I was talking about Ice Burn remove and Imalice nerf
Btw, on next raids, with current doc taunts, all noobs will die ;D Who assist will be ok, i'm pretty sure. But its still a nerf >.<
Lainbr - 220/30/70 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - E / Spirals - 220/30/70 Enforcer Solitus - E / Kokusho - 201/22/55 Fixer Nanomage - Equip Soon ;o
Traderbr - 180/0/0 Trader Nanomage - / Kaoru - 60/0/0 Meta-Physicist Nanomage - totw semitwink
Proud veteran of Spartans
To devs: You failed redesigning MPs as NTs with pets. I want my debuffer back.
Dreamer: Basically - I wish THIS much effort was put in to ALL profs rebalance docs.
Kintaii: Genele is more hardcore than you, your guildmates, and anyone else you've ever played with
Anarrina: Trust me, I'm not that scary in real life.
If a tank cannot support damage dealers by keeping agg from them, then that tank is broken. As long as it is reasonable for me to maintain aggro and cast what I need in any situation then enforcers will be ok, otherwise there is no point in having a tank profession that cannot tank.
Says who? I'd say some pvm rebalance is quite due.
Tanking the same 30 mobs for 20 minutes while each person is attacking a different one is one of the great joys of raiding!
I never use assist in raids (dont have space on hotbar for macro)....
Knowing which mobs needs to be taken taken out first + observing which mobs other players are attacking is a bit less braindead than /assist + q + /afk.
Imo of course.
R.I.P. AO
That and most callers tend to be lazy or not around when they are supposed to be.
Easier to pay attention to what's dieing.
Or the raid force could just watch the mobs wipe the raid because the caller was incompetent.
Anything that means less afk and more paying attention to what the hell you are doing is good IMO.
I touched Death in a bad place.
My corporate slavery came with a shiny decoder ring.
How about you be that exceptional caller that does a wonderful job so the bottom feeders wont have to annoy you with their incompetence?
Seriously, guys, the reasons you give for not assisting are just ridiculous if you actually make the effort to figure out what mob is being killed at the moment. And even that may not be working anymore in the future if things pan out the way they are presented to us. Because then you have to attack what the tank is taunting, otherwise you're unlikely to get a heal thrown your way if tiered heals have become a reality.
I see alot of dead people. And actually, I'm looking forward to it, will be hell of a fun time until every last one adapted to the new reality.
ಠ_ಠ
Because I don't endorse letting others be shoddy players?
I'd rather people know how to play.
Instead of "click macro link that creates assist macro for me, place on hot bar, press corresponding button and attack macro ad infinitum (or get a bot to do it )"
Tossing a macro at a new player doesn't teach them how to play, it removes the need to.
And when people don't need to play the game there is no reason to pay for it.
Interactivity is a good thing.
AoE tanking + assist macro completely removes the need to interact.
Granted there isn't much to work with given the "ai" mobs have to work with.
I don't want AoE taunts removed.
However /assist could certainly use some looking into
The swarms of aliens at apfs were a gimmick to make it more 'difficult' and to 'need more people'.
Though really you still only need a handful of players to do it, so the gimmick failed.
Last edited by Esproc; Dec 28th, 2010 at 17:59:32.
I touched Death in a bad place.
My corporate slavery came with a shiny decoder ring.
I think your perception on a assist macro is warped. What you do when you /assist is no different than when you dont assist. The point of assist is to kill the mob ASAP.
The link to the nano excell thing seems to be missing or broken right now oO
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