Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46

Thread: Balance will end sooner or later ?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    But we're the customers. We're not the CEO. Did your CEO give your internal working plans to the customers?
    Sometimes, it's a bad thing to show the plans to your customers; Especially when you ain't sure if you'll manage to pull it off or not. We've seen the effect of that with all the complaining regarding the new gfx engine not being released yet, or even the video of the engine (which was a really vague 'I'm really hoping to get another video to you guys within the next 3 weeks.', not 'I am sure I will get' thing anyway) ...
    If this was just another "service" offered by some company, ppl would have /quit a long time ago already. I'm paying for this, i want something done, the "company" said "ok", then little info is posted in months, delays take years... Imagine this to be something related to your internet provider for instance. Would you have not chosen another company a long time ago? And by "I" i mean the community.

    Ppl are leaving this game, i see it more and more deserted. The ones that still stay do so because they love this game. But, eventually, the patience will run low...
    Last edited by sscorpy; Aug 19th, 2010 at 12:31:11.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekonam View Post
    MA's role is basically wannabe DD whore outdamaged by many professions.
    Tedomari 220 ma Equip
    Nted 220 NT gimp
    Tedomary 150 s10 ma Equip

  2. #22
    That playfield takes roots from a real need : There is almost never BS in most TL and on top of that LE missions VP is bland. It can be a sore to even get the research devices at level 50.

    I don't care if it's used a lot or not, I know it won't because we're having all kind of problems ingame due to the low population, this BS have a mission to accomplish for me nad it is to provide a way for pvp and vp that have less requirement then BS.

    There is other problems because of population (level 150-161 is painful even on an alt, teams refusing to move without a pocket...), some more because of mechanics and itemization for newbies (pvp, ts among stuff isn't good on your first run). But at this point of development I'd rather have such problems patched quickly (and imo this pf goes fast enough) so we move on that big 'save the boat' balance/engine/newbie experience project.

    Collector, for example, is an example for me of content that doesn't really improve the situation today. I have hopes that the fan gathering will FINALLY shed some light and bring good news.
    Last edited by boltgun; Aug 19th, 2010 at 12:37:31.
    Server first !!! Neutral Solitus Male Soldier named Boltgun to wear a short with pink spots on RK1 !!!
    N E U T R A L I Z E R S

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    And you clearly missed mine.
    If they stop doing anything but the rebalance, they'd have to fire the content designers, graphical artists, those working on the engine and the other "code monkey(s)".
    If they stop adding content untill either rebalance or engine is done.... wow. This game would be boring very fast for those of us who have done all the existing content. It sounds like a REALLY bad idea to me.
    Hi missed it again huh? I do get your point, however I'm not asking that they finish tomorrow, I just wanna know what the overall process will be and where we are at in the journey that is, Re-Balance.

    *Edit: I myself changed my setup based on the FA/AS lock outs, and then seeing as it was going to be a Lost Eden process I swapped back to a setup that includes FA/AS.. I know I'm not alone in making changes in preparation for the Re-Balance and there are some who are holding their breath cause they couldn't put their setup back to how it was or don't want to waste the reset points as I did. I know I'm not the only paying getting blue in the face, if we had a overall road map/overview/whatever you wanna call it, we could plan for when to make our changes... Ok perks are done, Ok nanos are done, Ok items are done.. time to work out my new setup? Unreasonable? I don't think so.
    Last edited by Gaveup; Aug 19th, 2010 at 13:58:48.
    Gaveup 220/30/80 Smg

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by sscorpy View Post
    If this was just another "service" offered by some company, ppl would have /quit a long time ago already.
    The service works. Many players play this game every day with great success.
    The vendor of this 'service' have said they will be adjusting the service 'some time in the future', and are currently planning how to do this. They even involve YOU, the customer, in every step along the way, so that YOU can give feedback on it before it goes live. (documentation for each profession etc)

    It's an enormous task. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they have already stated roughly what has to be done to get through this. If you're unable to find the information, that means there may be a need for a central list of references to the rebalancing.. or you need to pay more attention to the weekly "this has happened, this is happening, this might be happening" updates. Pick one.

    If your complaint is that there's no details on how each and every profession will be at the end of the rebalance yet; The simple answer would be: Noone knows exactly right now. All the adjustments take a lot of thought & consideration.
    IMO, as long as they have a plan for each profession, regardless of them sharing it or not, it does make sense to adjust things category-by-category (perks, nanos, insert_category_here), profession-by-profession (insert list of professions here), until each profession 'feels' the way they intend it to feel.

    I'd imagine that once all those changes are on the table, they (and we, the community) will be able to see the big picture, and look at the inter-profession balancing (if any).

    IMO, it's great that they share what they do. Stop pissing on peoples work, and start seeing the bigger picture. It really makes the world a better place. (except when discussing politics. Politics are always depressing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaveup View Post
    Hi missed it again huh? I do get your point, however I'm not asking that they finish tomorrow, I just wanna know what the overall process will be and where we are at in the journey that is, Re-Balance.
    See this post. IIRC, all that info have been provided in FWM and other posts by developers on forums.
    *Edit: I myself changed my setup based on the FA/AS lock outs, and then seeing as it was going to be a Lost Eden process I swapped back to a setup that includes FA/AS.. I know I'm not alone in making changes in preparation for the Re-Balance and there are some who are holding their breath cause they couldn't put their setup back to how it was or don't want to waste the reset points as I did.
    IIRC, they have stated there will be at least one, maybe two, full IPRs handed out after rebalance.
    There's an old saying (direct translation, no idea what it is in english): "don't sell the skin before the bear is shot"; If you are adjusting your toon now to how things may be post-balance, you are, in my opinion, making a lot of unnecessary work for yourself.
    I know I'm not the only paying getting blue in the face, if we had a overall road map/overview/whatever you wanna call it, we could plan for when to make our changes...
    Plan: Make your changes post-rebalance, or when the rebalancing patch(es) are on testlive.
    Ok perks are done, Ok nanos are done, Ok items are done.. time to work out my new setup? Unreasonable? I don't think so.
    IIRC, none of it is set in stone, and I haven't seen any information on rebalancing of items yet.
    Last edited by Demoder; Aug 19th, 2010 at 14:16:50.
    ::: My Tools & Stuff :::
    ::: Cratine Savagedheals Enfine Zoewrangle Demoder :: Solitron Demotionform :: IRC Demoder Savagedlight :::
    ::: AOItems :: Blog :: CIDB :: HelpBot :: ItemsBot :: PlanetMap Viewer :: Tower Wars :: Twitter :::

  5. #25
    Get active and see if you feel the same way. If you do keep up with your FwM the play fields been out a while and already gone through changes ;P

    Anyways forums are boring back to enjoying my FA/AS
    Last edited by Gaveup; Aug 19th, 2010 at 14:13:38.
    Gaveup 220/30/80 Smg

  6. #26
    i don't get it either. in other games the devs are always (kind of like twitter actually) talking about stuff they are currently doing, what the plans are, show screenshots, whatever, just keeping the community informed. you see, here on the forum all are dedicated to the game, you really can't disappoint them. even if you just show a 640x480 screenshot of one of the new headmodels ingame with the new graphics engine (even with old model or something) they would still think "wow, hey something's moving here, great!". all is better than the complete silence over months about the projects. maybe think about a strategy change. greets.
    220 Agent + :: 220 Doctor + :: 220 Soldier + :: 220 Enforcer + :: 220 Bureaucrat + :: 217 Adventurer + :: 217 Trader + :: 159 Engineer :: 112 Fixer

    Inferno Travelguides

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaveup View Post
    Get active and see if you feel the same way. If you do keep up with your FwM the play fields been out a while and already gone through changes ;P

    Anyways forums are boring back to enjoying my FA/AS
    FWoM:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    And a host of other little changes here and there. The playfield's really starting to get polished and it's about ready for prime-time; the next version we release to Live will still be just a testing version to make sure that we've got the last of the major bugs squashed out and then our next release after that should be the finalized version.
    Patch notes:
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    - A new version of the "Mine" pvp area is available for testing for 200+ level players. Many suggested changes have been made in this version. Thank you all for the excellent feedback so far on this area.
    So obviously, it's still considered a test playfield, i.e. 'not added' (in the context I was saying it anyway)
    ::: My Tools & Stuff :::
    ::: Cratine Savagedheals Enfine Zoewrangle Demoder :: Solitron Demotionform :: IRC Demoder Savagedlight :::
    ::: AOItems :: Blog :: CIDB :: HelpBot :: ItemsBot :: PlanetMap Viewer :: Tower Wars :: Twitter :::

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    The vendor of this 'service' have said they will be adjusting the service 'some time in the future', and are currently planning how to do this.
    And when was that? how many months ago? no need to reply
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    It's an enormous task. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they have already stated roughly what has to be done to get through this. If you're unable to find the information, that means there may be a need for a central list of references to the rebalancing.. or you need to pay more attention to the weekly "this has happened, this is happening, this might be happening" updates. Pick one.
    OMG, they "already started"? Yes, perks and nanos for two profs, with 2 more to come this week, in theory...want to see that hapening. Wonder how much they'll have to work on the spreadsheets on NT prof. And i'm wondering how long it will take to actually implement the changes(making a spreadsheet is one thing, actually implementing them...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    If your complaint is that there's no details on how each and every profession will be at the end of the rebalance yet; The simple answer would be: Noone knows exactly right now. All the adjustments take a lot of thought & consideration.
    IMO, as long as they have a plan for each profession, regardless of them sharing it or not, it does make sense to adjust things category-by-category (perks, nanos, insert_category_here), profession-by-profession (insert list of professions here), until each profession 'feels' the way they intend it to feel.
    I never said there were no details... All i know is that there are thoughts atm, no action(besides 2 nanos), and no timeline as to when that will happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    IMO, it's great that they share what they do. Stop pissing on peoples work, and start seeing the bigger picture. It really makes the world a better place. (except when discussing politics. Politics are always depressing.)
    Not pissing on anyone's work...but the game is 9 YO, they're working on the reballance for 1 year, and on the new engine for 3-4 years? How much did the developement for the whole game last then? 10-20? i doubt that. Not to mention that we're waiting for a vid of the new engine for...29-30 weeks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    See this post. IIRC, all that info have been provided in FWM and other posts by developers on forums.
    Does that post include more heads? WTB more heads...for weeks all we've seen were heads and a tractor /sarcasm I didn't read your thread now, sry, as i'm always waiting each friday with tons of interest too see what's going on

    All that being said, I won't quit, i love this game. I am glad something is happening, something that may chance things for the best. All i'd like is to see some timeline, tell me it's going to happen in a years time from now. NP, but i do want that timeline respected for once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jekonam View Post
    MA's role is basically wannabe DD whore outdamaged by many professions.
    Tedomari 220 ma Equip
    Nted 220 NT gimp
    Tedomary 150 s10 ma Equip

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by sscorpy View Post
    Not to mention that we're waiting for a vid of the new engine for...29-30 weeks?
    25 going on 26.
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
    Auron 220/25 Keeper ::: Shadowslave 220/23 Shade ::: Radius 211/21 Nano-Technician
    Sunza 207/21 Martial Artist ::: Voss 182/15 Engineer ::: Shadowhead 150/16 Agent

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Autohead View Post
    25 going on 26.
    Dont blame them, do you know how much effort it takes to download fraps , record 30sec of video that is 2gb big and then converting all that??
    I dont blame them, their resources (HD space/bandwidth) are limited, so until they get that we must be patient.
    SOON™coming back...
    Neosh 220/20 Shade | Neokirurg 220/21 Doc crit setup | Neoc 216/18 Crat
    Shades are really invisible (from FC point of view)
    Patterns/symbs SALE ----- Refined imps SALE

  11. #31
    sscorpy: You're mixing "general direction" (all outlined in the post I linked... twice... to make sure you couldn't possibly miss it.. But I guess you did anyway) with exact details (the prof-specific nano changes etc). Please reread the post you quoted, since everything you keep asking for is actually mentioned there.

    Quote Originally Posted by sscorpy View Post
    Not to mention that we're waiting for a vid of the new engine for...29-30 weeks?
    Now take a close look at this quote:
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    I'm really hoping to get another video to you guys within the next 3 weeks. SOOO exciting.
    Exactly where does he PROMISE a video? He says he *HOPES* to get one out. That's very, very far from a promise.

    Considering all the fuss over this, are you surpriced they won't give us deadlines, or even estimates, when they don't know when things will be done? Really?

    Autohead: See above.
    ::: My Tools & Stuff :::
    ::: Cratine Savagedheals Enfine Zoewrangle Demoder :: Solitron Demotionform :: IRC Demoder Savagedlight :::
    ::: AOItems :: Blog :: CIDB :: HelpBot :: ItemsBot :: PlanetMap Viewer :: Tower Wars :: Twitter :::

  12. #32
    If you want FC to make deadlines, your expectations are too high. That simple. It's irrelevant if other company's do it. FC doesn't. If it bothers you that much, quit. I's funny that people are referring to how old the game is ... all the sudden, after 9 years of development where patches alone take 6-8 months, FC is cranking out videos and new content within a few weeks? Don't be stupid.
    Last edited by Obtena; Aug 19th, 2010 at 18:46:18.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Demoder View Post
    Autohead: See above.
    ...and nowhere in my signature does the word "promise" appear. I know he said "hoping"...the point of it is for them to not say sh*t they can't live up to. If he was "really hoping" (which to me indicates genuine excitement about it) to get us a video "within 3 weeks" it shouldn't be taking 25+ weeks. Even he himself said it was "SOOO exciting." Wonderful setup for ultimate letdown.
    Last edited by Autohead; Aug 19th, 2010 at 18:50:30.
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
    Auron 220/25 Keeper ::: Shadowslave 220/23 Shade ::: Radius 211/21 Nano-Technician
    Sunza 207/21 Martial Artist ::: Voss 182/15 Engineer ::: Shadowhead 150/16 Agent

  14. #34
    Maybe you would be happy that they say nothing so you can't complain about it then. Just admit it, they say something they don't live up to, your unhappy, they don't say anything you're unhappy. You just like finding things to complain about, pretty oblivious to the fact that the efforts they ae putting forth with the resources they have is a very significant task. Why should anyone even bother with you if you are only happy when everything is exactly as planned?

    Honestly, your making a big deal about a vidoe of some unfinished scenes in AO? That's pathetic. What were you planning to do? Masterbate to it?
    Last edited by Obtena; Aug 19th, 2010 at 18:54:01.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Obtena View Post
    Maybe you would be happy that they say nothing so you can't complain about it then. Just admit it, they say something they don't live up to, your unhappy, they don't say anything you're unhappy. Why should anyone even bother with you if you are only happy when everything is exactly as planned?
    Someone needs to hold them accountable, and I gladly take up that mantle. In my line of work if a customer calls me needing information I'm not quite sure about, I usually tell them I'll find out and call them back within a couple days. You know what happens a couple days after that? I CALL THEM LIKE I SAID I WOULD...even if I don't have the answer yet, so they know where I'm at, and how much longer they can expect to have to wait.
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
    Auron 220/25 Keeper ::: Shadowslave 220/23 Shade ::: Radius 211/21 Nano-Technician
    Sunza 207/21 Martial Artist ::: Voss 182/15 Engineer ::: Shadowhead 150/16 Agent

  16. #36
    Oh right, that person is YOU... Accountable for what? I have news for you, FC is acountable to only ONE group of people ... it's Investors and they aren't interested in some video that might have been, they are interested in returns on their investment. As much as you think you are that important, you aren't. If you want to be one of those people, buy some FC stock and vote. If you want to make some impact, quit the game. Until then, put away your illusions of granduer, climb down from that cloud, sit back and wait.
    Last edited by Obtena; Aug 19th, 2010 at 18:58:52.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  17. #37
    There was also the release of general guidelines of how all professions would be changed.

    It's also likely that a lot of the work has been done on implementation, particularly the important stuff of getting game mechanics coded. Things like local cool-downs, AS changes, removing AAD from NR checked perks etc will have been done and tested before being included. We know that elements such as reverse knock-back included in the keeper stuff has been done and tested. We've seen them introduce some of the changes linked to runspeed rebalancing (removal of strafe bug) and synch issues too.

    I don't think that it's the case that they're waiting for detailed specs for all professions to be made before actually getting on with a lot of the work that's needed for the rebalancing.

    As to timeline, FC have said that they plan to get the rebalancing out for major testing in a single release prior to the graphics engine release. At that time, they had also said that they planned to have the graphics engine out by somewhere around the end of this year... so broadly, you could read that as a general desire to have both rebalancing patch and graphics engine out by around the end of the year.

    But as mentioned before, one of the difficulties for a small maintenance team, such as AO has, is that it takes very little to go wrong in order for their planning to go deeply awry. And in a huge system as old and badly documented as AO, the risks of getting surprises and unexpected problems are pretty high. That makes all timelines fairly soft, which is why they're unwilling to be seen to make many promises.

    even if you just show a 640x480 screenshot of one of the new headmodels ingame with the new graphics engine (even with old model or something) they would still think "wow, hey something's moving here, great!".
    ... as has been done regularly in the FwM communications over the last months.... with new models.

    Not to mention that we're waiting for a vid of the new engine for...29-30 weeks?
    Do you think they could easily knock one out in an hour or two... but have decided not to, for some reason? Do you think they want to release a video, but just haven't bothered to do it, even though they've said they'd really like to get it out? Do you think they can't do it because they're not far enough in the development yet? Do you think they've got it there ready but the PR guys don't think it's good enough to release?

    Personally, I reckon that if it were as easy as somebody spending a couple of hours to crteate it, then they'd have done it and released it a long time ago. Why wouldn't they? FwM regularly has comments from the devs saying that they realise they over-promised on the video and are doing their best to get to it. It's not like they just announced it and then didn't keep updating and even apologising for the delay. The present team's communications about such things has been soooo much better than previous teams.

    It would be great to see both level of detail about the rebalancing and also speed of release of cool stuff from the graphics development go a lot faster. My impression with both so far has been, that the level of communication from the AO team has been pretty good and they clearly want to get this stuff out to players when they can. I'm pretty sure that we're seeing stuff as and when they can get it to us.

    I think it's a tough proposition for such a small team to be working on two such large pieces of work. I'd say that they'll be lucky if they hit the broad timeline that they've given of getting both out by around the end of this year... but I wish them all the luck in the world getting it done.

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Aug 19th, 2010 at 19:02:31.

  18. #38
    Without customer retention, there won't be willing investors. Importance is a two way street.
    Autohead 220/30/70 Solitus Soldier - Synergy Factor
    Auron 220/25 Keeper ::: Shadowslave 220/23 Shade ::: Radius 211/21 Nano-Technician
    Sunza 207/21 Martial Artist ::: Voss 182/15 Engineer ::: Shadowhead 150/16 Agent

  19. #39
    Yes, because AO is the only product FC puts out and retains customers for. It would be great at this point for someone to chime in oh how much of FC's profits over the last 4 years are due to AO as a sobering reminding of how much we actually matter to FC and it's investors.
    Last edited by Obtena; Aug 19th, 2010 at 19:41:23.
    Awwww muffin, need a tissue?

  20. #40
    Oh and...

    Not pissing on anyone's work...but the game is 9 YO, they're working on the reballance for 1 year, and on the new engine for 3-4 years? How much did the developement for the whole game last then?
    Average developmen time on first release of an MMO is 4-6 years. If you follow third party MMO sites, you'll know that they're usually around 2 years late... if they come out at all. They're also nowhere near as big as AO is in its present state.

    Development of the whole game of AO as it stands has probably taken about 14 years - say 5 in original development and then the 9 years of ongoing development since then.

    There are particular issues with old systems like AO too. Documentation is always a problem and the team has changed many times. End result is often that many game engine changes start off with a long period of trying to work out how it works at present, then trying to work out whether it's better to change the existing bit or write a replacement from scratch.... with the downside that in a system where all the elements are so strongly inter-dependent, whatever you do is likely to have many unexpected and unwanted knock-on effects that will also need to be sorted. Stuff just takes longer to do in that situation and is much, much harder to make good predictions on timelines.

    With graphics engine, the biggest hitch was when they had to change direction on which engine to use, which was no doubt partly to do with other FC games in house and various long-term company policies. When you're an old MMO with a fairly small subs base, you don't tend to get to throw your weight around much in the boardroom...

    X
    Last edited by XtremTech; Aug 19th, 2010 at 19:52:53.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •