PC halp.

[Colawrenn]

Hi. So I'm toying with the idea of building a PC soon that can actually like, run stuff. I'm flat broke and can barely afford to eat at the moment so my budget isn't gonna be very much at all.
My question is, what specs should I be aiming for, that will allow me to play pretty much all new games, if at lowest settings. I mean the bare minimum I can get away with really.
I know like nothing about computer hardware so just throw a bunch of words/numbers at me and I'll translate it to idiot speak as I go
I figure building from scratch will be cheaper than buying an already made PC?

I know you're all geniuses around here and will love having the opportunity to drop some knowledge, so go nuts

P.S I'm in the UK, if that helps. If you were gonna suggest particular sites/shops to check or whatevs.

[Reids]

You'll save barely anything on a low spec PC these days (even a high spec one you don't save much compared to a couple of years ago). And you don't get bonuses such as warrantys etc. May as well buy one imo.

[delsabre]

I guess mostly anything should be fine as long as it's not a single core CPU. And as long as the GFX card ain't more than 2 years or so.

Edit: Dunno what shops you guys have over there (and I'm too lazy to look it up) but I assume the cheapest solution would be to get an upgrade kit similar to this and then replace the gfx card / hard drive in steps once you have the money.

Should be fine as long as your old computer case isn't some weird "brand" model specially made to fit only their components.

[Aikey]

Don't be afraid to check out some refurbished units too if you're short on cash. I got this laptop I use atm as a refurbished unit from www.laptopsdirect.co.uk and it was classed as an A1 machine (their rating system) and i've not had any issue with it whatsoever. I'd highly recommend taking a look at least

[byteflush]

(I was never a fan of those "pre-built" PCs (Dell, HP, etc.), so my answer may be a little bit biased.)

DO NOT ever think of buying a pre-built PC! Choose your own components, and you'll get exactly what you want with the ability to upgrade whenever you want. Well, I'm not in the UK, but around here those "brand-name" PCs are <1% of the desktop market and I really haven't seen a "brand" PC that's "younger" than 2003.

Anyway, here's what you must have if you plan to use your PC for gaming:

- It'd be really nice if you could get a MB with 4 DDR3 slots, but those are usually much more expensive than the 2xDDR3
- 2x2GB DDR3 RAM. If you want 4 Gigs of RAM, do NOT buy a single stick, always buy it in pair
- At least a Dual-Core CPU (AMD/Intel, your choice, depends on your budget and availability)
- As for graphics, things are a little bit complicated now. My advice is, if you're on a tight budget: eBay nVidia 8800 GT or, even better, 9800. Any brand new graphics card below $60 is inferior to those $20 ones.

[Honorbound]

Pretty much what byteflush wrote.

Pre-built PCs may cost up to 50% more than buildng the exact same rig yourself (or have it built by someone who knows what they are doing) while in many cases are in fact built from the exact same components you would be using if building your own (with the same chances of component failure).

A dual core CPU (or a quad if you plan on a bit of longevity) somewhere at least on the middle of the speed range of the given type should suffice, not necessarily even the "i" series (if you are going with Intel), the "old" Core 2 Duo/Quad ones should still suffice and cost considerably less than the "i"-s. And no home user needs those 8 (or 16, if HT capable) core monsters, usually not even the quads.

I'm not sure about DDR3 as far as RAM goes, depending on a number of factors and usage situations it may not give any real advantage over the DDR2 architecture. If there's a significant difference in price (factoring in the difference between a DDR2 or DDR3 supporting motherboard too), going with DDR2 should do just fine.

One important thing to note: if you go for at least 4 GB RAM (which you should), you'll have to use a 64 bit OS to be able to actually utilize it. So if you don't have a 64 bit OS currently, you'll have to add that to the shopping list too.

Graphics is indeed a complex question, you'll have to see what's availale in your preferred price range and research those cards thoroughly. Chipset manufacturers have a nast practice of simply "re-numbering" their several years old architectures to look like new ones and sell them at a price around their current top of the line products, while such "re-numbered" cards are in fact nowhere near performance-wise of the ones they mimic. Usually the lower numbers in any numbering series use such "re-numbered" GPUs while the higher ones actually do use the newer GPUs their model number hints at. By digging up technical info and reviews, you can usually figure out which model uses what GPU, but that requires some work. In general, mid-range DX11 cards with 1 GB DDR5 VRAM should contain relatively new GPUs and aren't that exensive now while still should give a decent performance as long as you acknowledge the limits of what you can afford and can live with moderate video settings when necessary (I only have an ATi HD 5770 and so far I'm still seeing decent performance on relatively demanding DX11 titles like DX:HR with fairly high video settings).

If you'd like to see some statistics about what hardware do gamers use these days, this hardware-survey page might be of interest to get some ideas.

[Lupusceleri]

Do not under any circumstance get a "handicapped" CPU such as Duron, Celeron, Sempron, Atom, etc. You will regret that.

Intel's Core i3 or i5 series, and AMD's Athlon or Phenom series are what you're after.

[Neon_1]

Do not under any circumstance get a "handicapped" CPU such as Duron, Celeron, Sempron, Atom, etc. You will regret that.

Intel's Core i3 or i5 series, and AMD's Athlon or Phenom series are what you're after.

This.

If you really want a good budget computer, buy parts/collections from somewhere like e-bay or local auction- site. However for that you need to have knowledge about differend brands/items, and do some research. Another thing is, that those parts are used, so they can brake in a week if you are unlucky.

But more to the point. Usually AMD has had more cost/efficiency in its processors than Intel. Nowadays Im not so sure since havent been paying much attention to processor markets, and Im bit confused about all the differend model-markings, which actually dont tell much to a random user. Same goes with graphics-cards, and that pisses me off. Basic user has no way of telling what he gets from the name or even specs of an graphics card/processor. Anyways, my quick listing would be something like this;

- Processor: You can get AMD Athlon/Phenom 3-core/4-core processor for 70/90 euros or Intel i3 for 100sh euros atm. Not sure how those line up, but you can for example do little searching by google or tomshardware.com to find out.

- Motherboard: At least here in Finland there is a lable called Asrock, which has cheap MB:s for around 40-50 euros. Main thing to check is to preferably have 4 memory slots, and what kind of processors it can hold (for example slot 775, AM3, AM2 etc.).

- Compare the combinations above, and check what combination is cheap and relatively good performance ration. At cheapest combination, you prolly can survive at 100-110 euros, and bit more pricy combination(amd 4-core, intel i3) will cost you near 150 euros or bit over.

- Imo memory speed is irrelevant here, and DDR2-memory is more than sufficient unless both memories cost about the same. 4GB is enough basically for everything except for very heavy picture/video processing. Here in Finland it seems that DDR2/3 cost around the same, so choose DDR3 if your motherboard can support it. Also get 2 x 2gb if you can instead of 1 memory module of 4gb for more speed. However, 4gb memory chip here costs around 25 euros at cheapest, while 2 x 2gb can cost 35-40 euros.

- Graphics card is more complicated, as many here have said. For extreme low budget you can get geforce 8800gtx/9800pro/gtx, and it wont cost you much, maybe around 30-50 euros, and you propably can play almost all games with even medium settings. After that it becomes bit tricky imo, since I dont know if there are that good options in priceclass 50-100 euros imo ? And I mean price vs perfomance. You can get Radeon 5770 at around 120 euros, which is decent card. But then again, at 150 euros you already get Radeon 6870 or Geforce 460/560 cards which all are far superior and actually very good cards that will last you easily for few years or more. So here you have to decide what you want and act accordingly. For starters you can get the geforce 8800 and see if you are happy with that, and buy the more expensive one later on if you decide to want it and have enough credz.

[Mastablasta]

STOP! For ultimate budget gaming THIS is the only way to do it. Nothing that anyone else so far have said is in the REAL budget end.

The main way to save a lot of money today on a decent setup is to get a AMD A-3850 APU or similar in the line, the A series. The tope one is a quadcore CPU with a very decent integrated GPU. Sure, integrated GPU used to be a cussword, but it's starting to change, actually. The thing is about 25% the performance of a highend card, and sits in a CPU.
It's a cheap solution, where you for ... 80-90$ can get a decent CPU and a decent GPU, check out these framerates http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-a8-3850-apu-review/12

As you can see, Intel's integrated GPUs come nowhere close, and their CPU is twice/thrice the price. Sure, it's a better CPU, but what do you need that for when you just need 30-60 fps to enjoy things properly, and that integrated GPU runs Far Cry 2 with high settings at 30 fps at 1600x1200.

My advice if you're on such a strict budget: A cheap socket am3+ board, a AMD 3850 or 3800, and 4gb DDR3 1333mhz. Allows for a full gaming experience and you've spent maybe 150$.

PS: I don't know anywhere good to buy in the UK.

[Xyphos]

I swear, as much time as I spend building characters in auno's designer,
I also build computers at NewEgg.

...most of which don't even have cases for, as I plan to use a fishtank of mineral oil as the poor-mans' liquid cooling system (and 99% dust-free system)

[Raggy]

...most of which don't even have cases for, as I plan to use a fishtank of mineral oil as the poor-mans' liquid cooling system (and 99% dust-free system)

What. How conductive is that? Is there any performance loss?

[delsabre]

What. How conductive is that? Is there any performance loss?

Don't think Mineral Oil is conductive at all.

Edit:
"Mineral oil is very difficult, if not impossible to clean from your components once they are submerged."
...something worth keeping in mind if you swap hardware often.

[Raggy]

Don't think Mineral Oil is conductive at all.

Edit:
"Mineral oil is very difficult, if not impossible to clean from your components once they are submerged."
...something worth keeping in mind if you swap hardware often.

Hmm, call me old fashioned but I just find the idea of submerging PC components in ANYTHING a strange idea. Liquid cooling just makes me hit my head off a wall.

"Yes! Let's mix Water and Electricity!"

One day something could go horrifically wrong with one of the cooling pipes...

[Malosar]

And as long as the GFX card ain't more than 2 years or so.

The graphics card age doesn't have nearly as much to do with it's performance as the model and cost does. You can buy a brand new GPU for $30, it's still going to be slower than a high end card from 5 years ago.

The important thing with GPUs is to do your research, and do it carefully. Don't ever assume that because a GPU is in the latest model series number that it supports the latest DX standards. AMD are pretty good in this respect but Nvidia are really bad for renaming GPUs from several generations ago into current generation model series.

You get what you pay for with GPUs. If you buy a high end i7 2600k processor, and pair it with a 5470 GPU, don't expect to run massive Eyefinity resolutions with maxed settings. You'll be crippled by the GPU. Works both ways as well. Don't buy a GTX580 with a Celeron processor. (As stated, never buy these crippled processors anyway).

GPUs nowadays are incredibly cheap for what you get but for me there is a lower limit for what I'll pay and what GPU capabilities I'll go for. For my friends who want a budget gaming computer, I'd generally advise them to go for AMD 5770 or 6850 at minimum, or something like a GTX 460 or better on the Nvidia side. AMD current series are very good performers for the buck, the 6850/70 being extremely good value imo.

Match your GPU and overall computer capabilities with your display resolution as well. It's useless getting a high end enthusiast setup if you're still playing on that 1280x1024 LCD. Utter waste of power. As with everything else, it works both ways. Don't gimp your hardware and go out and buy a 30" LCD.

Lastly, everyone is an expert on internet forums, and everyone thinks they're right. I'll pull a number out of my rear and state that 80% of them don't know what they're talking about and simply regurgitate something they read from a kid posting crap on another forum.

[Colawrenn]

Hey. Some great responses, thanks a lot!
The Processor and gfx card numbers/letters is what really throws me off, so thanks to those who made it slightly more understandable! If you sat and talked to me about computers for 10 minutes, you would despair at how little I actually know
If anyone wants to add more input, it would be greatly appreciated, but I definitely think there is some good stuff to go on when I come to actually deciding on a build. I'll probs post details here at the time so I can get feedback if anyone will be nice enough to go through what, to me, is just brain numbing numbers.
Otherwise, feel free to steal this thread and go on with your discussions.

P.S, my input: I'm not sold on introducing water to technology just yet either.

[Mastablasta]

www.pricerunner.co.uk is a good place to look, I guess. What parts exactly do you need, like do you have a tower and a newer powersupply? Do you need a harddrive? A DVD drive?
I can take a look and build up a complete list of parts for you later, if you like. While it's true that people in general probably are quite stupid when it comes to building PCs, this may stem from the fact that all the big brand "gaming PCs" are ridiculously unbalanced builds that don't make any sense.

A proper build is balanced and allows for possible future updates. If it's cheap, it's done cheap in a proper way, and doesn't skimp in important areas. For instance, an AMD Fusion APU will be cheap and give you a decent CPU, while also providing a decent GPU solution till you can afford a proper discrete solution.

And that's where most people also fail. You said very low budget in the first post, and the first thing people post is to buy a CPU that costs as much as a baseline system... because they don't know what things require, they just see what's the best on the market at a certain pricepoint and don't care about any hardware lower down the rung.

[Mastablasta]

Spent a few minutes at overclockers.co.uk

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=CP-305-AM CPU + GPU + Dirt 3 game £99.98 inc VAT
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...03&subcat=2058 motherboard,. £65.99 inc VAT
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...id=123&subcat= power supply £17.99 inc VAT
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...=8&subcat=1516 4gb RAM £23.98 inc VAT

£207,94 including VAT. We can sacrifice a bit and go cheaper, if you like. Or if there's more needed.

[Reids]

Also worth noting that Overclockers have terrible customer support, I whole-heartedly recommend Scan.co.uk

[Mastablasta]

I just went to the cheapest site listed on pricerunner. I have no experience with any UK shops.

[Scottik]

Spent a few minutes at overclockers.co.uk

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=CP-305-AM CPU + GPU + Dirt 3 game £99.98 inc VAT
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...03&subcat=2058 motherboard,. £65.99 inc VAT
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...id=123&subcat= power supply £17.99 inc VAT
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...=8&subcat=1516 4gb RAM £23.98 inc VAT

£207,94 including VAT. We can sacrifice a bit and go cheaper, if you like. Or if there's more needed.

Good setup except for the PSU which looks pretty cheap. Honestly this is first time I see it (it's not available in my country) and I couldn't find any reviews on this product so I'd rather get one from Corsair or Seasonic instead. They use quality components and got 80+ certification.