Enfs and Attack rating

[Mostadio]

Anyone on the receving end of an enforcer alpha needs to think about how its done and what they can do to avoid it, because you can. Especially Traders. If you drain an enf and he obliterates you (without MR)

The issue is your evades. Get some.

How do you avoid things when you're stunned? Especially when the stuns have extremely low or nonexistent checks? Also, you keep bringing up traders like we wander around with one strapped to our backs. As for evades.. sorry charlie, some of us play profs where no matter how much evade equipment we stack on, we're still not going to have enough to avoid your perks. Especially while enfs have chal and associated procs.

[Mountaingoat]

Enfs can alpha like AR setup shades (better actually with challenger procs), have fixer like escape abilities, keeper survivability, and NR2 plus Spatial Displacement tacked on free of setup compromises. Clearly underpowered.

[Burgly]

Enfs can alpha like AR setup shades (better actually with challenger procs), have fixer like escape abilities, keeper survivability, and NR2 plus Spatial Displacement tacked on free of setup compromises. Clearly underpowered.

Wouldn't go as far as to say that enfs are "overpowered" but they certainly aren't in need of more love.

[Moonbolt]

wow....
the poor knowledge of the enf profession is flowing in this thread..
Kink knows how to play an enf well in pvp....
in fact ask just about anyone that has met my enf in BS ,.... so do i.
u gotta realise that enfs has a massive alpha.... yes...
but if u look at our dmg / min we dont get even close to any other prof except maybe docs.
tho my guess is that with DoTs and As pistol and malpractise they do outDD us in dmg /min.

yes noone is claiming that enfs has a poor alpha.
enfs prolly has the best alpha in game except maybe shades.
but once that alpha is used there is a SIXTIO seconds downtime before we get another try.
most classes has the ability to bring down an enf in 60 seconds...
excpet docs cause of the fact that DoTs is removed by rage.
i understand if kink is more frustrated then i am tho since hes solitus and im trox.
every 3 minutes i have a chance to MR alpha an evader wich he doesnt.

but u guys arent realistic...
i might be pretty bad at getting stuff thru to other people in my posts....
generally i think that is because people tend to already have decided what they think about a profession before knowing the facts.

enforcers alpha (just a number pulled outa the spot where the sun dont shine on me) say its 30k.
and our regular hits are 500-700ish.
lets say we make 45 attacks / minute as dualweilding since i dont know the exact number.
45*600=27000
1*6000 for SA.
that makes a total of 63k dmg / min.

a soldier does if decently geared cap me for 9800 every 11 seconds.
and does 1.2k regulars to me every 2 seconds.
1200*30 = 36000
5*9800 = 49000¨
add 2500 points burst every 8 seconds and thats pretty low calculated.
2500*6 = 15000
add to that around 10k in perk dmg during that minute
36000+49000+15000+10000 = 110000 dmg every minute.

a fixer is even worse..
11 sec FA thats basically a 100% cap on me. 9800 every 11 sec.
lets calc pretty low AS average, every 11 secs.... 4000.
add about 15k in perk dmg.
and again the burst for about 2500 every 8 seconds.
and 45 regulars at 200-700. wich we can calc to 400 each hit.

5*9800 = 49000
2500*6 = 15000
400*45 = 18000
5*4000 = 20000
49000+15000+18000+20000+15000 = 117000 dmg every min.

traders wich generally have realy crappy pvp dmg.
9800*5 = 49000 for AS.
900*30 = 27000 regulars.
and add 10k for perk dmg.
49000+27000+10000 = 86000 / min.

if u want to correct the calcs i made.... think about that i made the calcs with ENDGAME geared toons dmg to an enf.

u can make the calcs for the other professions with what u think its realistic but the enforcers dmg / min is realy crap compared to other toons dmg.
and u cant even compare a enforcers survivability to an endgame geared fixer/adv/MA/doc/sheild MP/MA/keeper, it is WAY less.

the only reason that enfs LOOKS overpowerd to undergeared toons is that the alpha completly oblitereates its target if we can land our full alpha on the target.
but thats also the ONLY way an enf can kill a target.
and when we have killed 1 target we gotta wait 60 seconds untill we can attempt to kill next target.

so once again... u guys that are complaining abuot enfs have a REALY POOR UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THE PROFESSION WORKS.

[Burgly]

Dude, from looking at ur post its clear that u dont know how profs work in pvp.

First off, MR is 2:30 timer not 3min,
2nd, wth do u have MR on a enf?
3rd, fixers dont have 11s FA, good once got maybe 15-16s.

And all those calc u made .. im not even gonna get started with those.

[howlin]

wow....

Calcing dmg per minute (even if calcing it wrong) does not work.
Most professions die in 3 seconds when they meet a good enf, their dmg stops there.

[Moonbolt]

Dude, from looking at ur post its clear that u dont know how profs work in pvp.

First off, MR is 2:30 timer not 3min,

hmm just checked and ur corret.... i actually never bothered to check exact timer.. it says 3 min recharge when i use it so went wth that.

2nd, wth do u have MR on a enf?

cause w/o MR its impossible to beat good shades/crats/sheild MPs/advs.
do u realy think that landing 2 perks + SA will kill any evader?

3rd, fixers dont have 11s FA, good once got maybe 15-16s.

i can cap a 11 sec FA on craphander on a lvl 100 fixer so yes they do got 11 secs AS.

And all those calc u made .. im not even gonna get started with those.

and yeh i did say it was a rough estimate ...... and even green solds/fix caps FA 100% on a endgame enf if they land tracer or LFF on the enf.
if u wanna pick my posts apart atleast use statements that makes sence or is atleast aimed to be anything else then missdirection.

[Moonbolt]

Calcing dmg per minute (even if calcing it wrong) does not work.
Most professions die in 3 seconds when they meet a good enf, their dmg stops there.

and u are incorrect aswell....
most gimped players die in 3 seconds when the enf has his alpha recharged.
i have agent friends thats managed to tank my alpha.
fixers cant be perked even with MRif they are good.
crats cant be perked even with MR if they are good.
NTs if smart can manage to survive an enf alpha or atleast if they have their NBG up and manages to get it off when they see i start perking.
advs if good has a chance to survive the alpha.
solds has 1:20 godmode vs enfs.
MAs if good can resist even a MR alpha if i dont land slowdown first.
Keepers will live thru the alpha.
enfs will live thru the alpha.
docs if good can survive the alpha.

the only real free kills enfs gets is MPs / engies / and UNDERGEARED people.
thats the main problem with most comparisons u guys make.... u compare undergeared toons vs an endgame enf.
ofcours the undergeared toon should go splat instantly.

and yes Damage / minute does count... cause once that hughe alpha is used up.... the enforcer cant do anything to anyone.... and he cant help his team mates eaither by healing or cooning them or w/e.

as i did make the first comparison.... soldier..... when a soldier has killed its first target it moves on to next target and attempts to FA it to death..... soldiers has good sustained damage while their perks are down... enfs doesnt.
almost all classes in this game has good sustained DPM during their perk downtime.
MAs got insane crits. NTs got duobles, crats got pets and nukes, fixers got both FA and AS, solds got FA and AS if they are smart enough to hotswap, engies got AS + pets, agents got AS, docs got AS + DoTs + Malp, MPs got pets and if bow AS, shades realy never run out of perks tbh, advs got FA and AS,...... see the point im aiming at,,,,, all of those professions can be functional killing while theyr perks are in recharge... enfs and keepers cant..

thus does Damage / min count for alot.

for example.... i dueled a guildie agent... about 50% of the time he managed to live thru my alpha attempt....
every time he lives thru that first alpha attemtp im dead.... even when i got my IMUB up so that i have 63k health.... he rips thru my absorbs and my health faster then my alpha recharges.

and yes.. both me and Kinkstaah and even obtena has admited that the enf alpha is intimidating and brings alot of pain.
it does.
noone can argue at all about it.
but u guys fail to see the downtime in between the alphas.
cause u are so used to not have that downtime with ur professions, since u got capping specials at 11 secs.

[Marinegent]

a bunch of played down bull

Stop pretending man. Enfo's arent invincible by any means, but your alpha power is way over the top. I see so many good enforcers on RK2 rip through people like nothing.

I've seen a few enforcers run around borealis with osbs, 3-4 clans and 1 omni enfo. The enfo will kite the zerg around, eventually corner one person, kill it, and run off. And repeat for each time the alpha cycle is up.

Enforcers are able to tank a good deal of damage and run away whenever needed. The alpha power is extreme and is enough to kill most professions given some timing or practice. You can't expect to out-tank and kill EVERYONE.

You just have to use your brain a little and put a little more effort into taking people down via tactics, and not just faceroll keyboard.

[Moonbolt]

i dont need a leson in how enfs work ty... i know better then most people how my profession works.
and yeh backyard hugging is effective.
but its a WHOLE lot less effective since the strafe run nerf..
ur totally missing the point of the post i did tho.
every profession can do pvp that way.....
agents can alpha gank someone and run to a BY for example and wait untill their lpha recharges.
fixers got it even easier....
they can just meep once their target is down.
solds have it better that way aswell since they can just AMS and run to a BY when AMS is about to run out. and dont come with the lame ass excuse.. what if theres a NT around... well the same NT can perma root down the enf.
so ur BS hugging ganking tactic works with the majority of professions so do u wanna make BYs 25% zone or flags attackable in 100% ... cause u cant nerf 1 profesion on the basis that they can run to a backyard.

[Lisergia]

i can cap a 11 sec FA on craphander on a lvl 100 fixer so yes they do got 11 secs AS.

lolol.

FA on craphander yes? even if thats a typo, Fixers dont have 11 sec. For me its 18 because i chose not to use ofab bullcrap. Why? Cause thanks to enfs and soldiers i need every point def i can get. 15 sec is doable with a pretty suboptimal setup.

You might also change your average AS dmg to about 2000 for a fixer.

Plus if a random fixer caps FA 100%ish on you, you simply suck. Try full def. If you bothered getting def stuff at all...

fixers cant be perked even with MRif they are good.
crats cant be perked even with MR if they are good.

Thats because your timing sucks and theirs doesnt.

[McKnuckleSamwich]

lol. Learn to play

Enfs need about 500 more AR. Evades are still an absolute joke. But enfs are as broken as anything else. If we cant instakill it, it wont ever die, and will kill us 100% of the time.

Enfs need the power to outdamage peoples heals or at least keep up with them or at least keep them in range, otherwise perking people 90% of their HP is the asme as doing no damage at all.

Until then, enfs need to be able to perk more people (MR needs to be an enf/keeper only perk) In all seriousness, this thread should be reported for trolling.

sounds like you need to LTP.

I've seen enfs whittle down evade profs. If you don't know how, visit the enfs on RK2.

[Chewy1]

since u got capping specials at 11 secs.(AS)

AS NEEDS TO BE AN "AGENT" PROFESSION SPECIAL ONLY!.....your problem is solved, Chris.

[Perskules]

15s fa is average on fixer and craphander mostly hit 1-2k AS. running max add dam/ar setup on fixer and missing over half FAs on enfs ot they hitting few bullets only.
and enfs are very dangerous on fixer getting 3 cap from SA, dimach + that low def check perk

[Hellrule]

Why does everyone feel the need to perk evade professions? Your not supposed to. Shame funcom screwed this up with mongo rage years ago.

And a twinked enforcer will whitle down any evade profession very quickly once temporary evade perks are down and they aren't kiting like a maniac. Just because sync issues hamper you don't let you think you need more help.

[Kinkstaah]

There is no way that'd happen now.-

Oh, trust me, it does. Get more evades. Or rather, get a setup that is equivalent to mine

I didnt see kink posting any setup?

My setup is pretty standard, or rather it became the standard I't sjust your average "def" setup enforcer, with towers. I.e, full alphas, full CC, ofab head, Igoc on one shoulder, alappa pad on the other, hhab ring and summoned terror ring. There isn't room for improvement. Anywhere.

How do you avoid things when you're stunned? Especially when the stuns have extremely low or nonexistent checks? Also, you keep bringing up traders like we wander around with one strapped to our backs. As for evades.. sorry charlie, some of us play profs where no matter how much evade equipment we stack on, we're still not going to have enough to avoid your perks. Especially while enfs have chal and associated procs.

Please read my post that states the AR that we have on these stuns, that any trader should be able to avoid (3009) without any drain at all, or without corp prot.

And if you land a drain, what makes you think stuns will even land? Also, you have 40m to cast this drain. You also have the runspeed to make sure the enforcer doesnt get within 40m until your drain has landed.

Also: Shutdown skills.

Enfs can alpha like AR setup shades (better actually with challenger procs), have fixer like escape abilities, keeper survivability, and NR2 plus Spatial Displacement tacked on free of setup compromises. Clearly underpowered.

AR shades hurt a lot more than enforcers.
Shades have fixer like escape abilities (hey, perk SD!)
Keepers have keeper survivability. Enforcers do NOT have anything close to this.
We have high NR. Rage is not SD.

In essence, enforcers are like shades that uh, are more susceptible to perks, perk damage and so on, more resistant to nanos. I guarantee you I kill another enforcer a LOT faster than I kill a shade.

Calcing dmg per minute (even if calcing it wrong) does not work.
Most professions die in 3 seconds when they meet a good enf, their dmg stops there.

"Most" professions don't. The only class that dies in 3 seconds is

a) An agent who is not paying attention
b) A doctor who is not paying attention
c) a trader who is not paying attention or can't land a drain
d) someone not 220, who is massively undergeared relative to the enforcer

sounds like you need to LTP.

I've seen enfs whittle down evade profs. If you don't know how, visit the enfs on RK2.

Real enfs in real situations do not have iMub. They also have opponents that have RRFE. (the enf also can have rrfe!) and the only whittling down you'll be doing is vs crats.

Because ranged advys, shades, keepers and MA's will rofl @ you. Or they may not, but you absolutely won't be roflstomping them into the ground to make you think they're OP, infact the enf will be at a massive disadvantage.

I very much know how to play an Enforcer. Anyone who wants to really say anything different on that is blatantly trolling.

[Kinkstaah]

15s fa is average on fixer and craphander mostly hit 1-2k AS. running max add dam/ar setup on fixer and missing over half FAs on enfs ot they hitting few bullets only.
and enfs are very dangerous on fixer getting 3 cap from SA, dimach + that low def check perk

Whoa, 3 cap?
Get rrfe.

Secondly, don't let him in range.
Thirdly, it wont cap
Fourthly, DIMACH?

Maybe if Enforcers had 11s Sneak attack, and 1 minute dimach! But they don't.
really? Cmon now. Fixers aren't threatened by enforcers. Why lie?

Why does everyone feel the need to perk evade professions? Your not supposed to. Shame funcom screwed this up with mongo rage years ago.

Noone said you should always perk evaders. But on the flip side, should you do ZERO DAMAGE and NEVER be able to kill them at all? No, you shouldn't. It isnt so bad with Crats, because their defence is evades. It goes out the window when these evade classes have heals too - Because they are immune to classes which rely 100% on perk damage to .. do damage.

[Hellrule]

Fixers aren't threatened by ANYONE.

^fixed this for you


Noone said you should always perk evaders. But on the flip side, should you do ZERO DAMAGE and NEVER be able to kill them at all? No, you shouldn't. It isnt so bad with Crats, because their defence is evades. It goes out the window when these evade classes have heals too - Because they are immune to classes which rely 100% on perk damage to .. do damage.

Funny that crats are the one evade profession w/o heals or any form of damage mitigation yet there the first to get raped by twinked enforcer if they aren't kiting like maniacs. I see how fixers and Mp's can be a problem for an enforcer but def. not crats, barely an evade profession without perks up

[McKnuckleSamwich]

It goes out the window when these evade classes have heals too - Because they are immune to classes which rely 100% on perk damage to .. do damage.

I agree with part 1, but part 2 is srsly lolworthy.

you have a capping special every 40 seconds, and you say that to "do" damage you need perks?

I dare you to give up SA, fast attack, brawl, and dimach and PVP.

welcome to life as a keeper wearing excal.

ok, just give up SA, and welcome to life as a keeper. Either way, you got a LOOOOOOOONG way to go before someone starts feeling sorry for you.

[Ilyrik]

I agree with part 1, but part 2 is srsly lolworthy.

you have a capping special every 40 seconds, and you say that to "do" damage you need perks?

I dare you to give up SA, fast attack, brawl, and dimach and PVP.

welcome to life as a keeper wearing excal.

ok, just give up SA, and welcome to life as a keeper. Either way, you got a LOOOOOOOONG way to go before someone starts feeling sorry for you.

Welcom where? excal?

My "lol" tl5 keeper >> TL7 enf in BS (but true i need more pvp on enf to relearn)