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Thread: Crat debuffs

  1. #61
    i mean, seriously. there were two ways i could do a boss: get a good tank, 2 good docs, good dps, etc.
    or use my crat, anything that could keep aggro, and maybe adv for healing...or nothing if tank=shade.

    how do you think the devs can balance a fight if one profession can nerf the whole encounter to death? the only way would be to boost the boss, but that would make it near impossible for raidgroups without a crat.

    i've played my crat a lot, i know what i'm talking about. the inits debuffs are just plain overpowered for pvm and have to go.
    220 Agent + :: 220 Doctor + :: 220 Soldier + :: 220 Enforcer + :: 220 Bureaucrat + :: 217 Adventurer + :: 217 Trader + :: 159 Engineer :: 112 Fixer

    Inferno Travelguides

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Keex View Post
    i've played my crat a lot, i know what i'm talking about. the inits debuffs are just plain overpowered for pvm and have to go.
    If it's too easy for you, you do realise that you don't have to cast them?
    ....If you want challenge, don't cast these oh so overpowered debuffs & bingo, Challenge !

    Win-win.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
    Calms 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution
    Medicaiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution Setup
    Newen 220/30/70 President - The Galactic Milieu
    Mettagirl 220/20/** General - Primal Evolution
    Krataiken 150/18/40 General - Primal Evolution Setup

  3. #63
    The third ai30 crat has spoken
    Hellrule 220/30/70 - Your future Crat Dictator
    Secretly Clan

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Keex
    i mean, seriously. there were two ways i could do a boss: get a good tank, 2 good docs, good dps, etc.
    or use my crat, anything that could keep aggro, and maybe adv for healing...or nothing if tank=shade.
    that's the best argument why crats should be left alone.
    Fence Sitter

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    Rofl permanently immune to roots? Nah but the ability to chain root something is fun right? Yeah maybe for you playing the crat.
    After pvping quite a few people, i cant recally even ONE good pvp'er that i could keep perma-rooted.
    Not one.
    Maybe its time to L2PvP and/or twink?

    Quote Originally Posted by -Klod- View Post
    Your toolset works perfectly. What are you talking about?
    Your evil trolltricks wont work on me, sir!
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  6. #66
    rofl, you can't keep a shade, sold, engi, doc, some MAs permarooted if u really wanted to? I feel sorry for you and your sorry excuse for a crat then.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    rofl, you can't keep a shade, sold, engi, doc, some MAs permarooted if u really wanted to? I feel sorry for you and your sorry excuse for a crat then.
    You cant kepp a GOOD xxxprof player permarooted.
    Learn to read. And to pvp.
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Koizumi View Post
    You cant kepp a GOOD xxxprof player permarooted.
    Learn to read. And to pvp.
    I can do it, if you can't then I'm afraid you need to l2p sorry your crat is so gimp that it can't do that.

  9. #69
    Keep on living in your imaginary world of sailormoon pvm perfection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Weltall View Post
    snip.
    V
    Quote Originally Posted by ragerayden View Post
    As stated many times, most people here have no idea in what state pvm/pvp crat are.
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    If it's too easy for you, you do realise that you don't have to cast them?
    ....If you want challenge, don't cast these oh so overpowered debuffs & bingo, Challenge !

    Win-win.
    This is almost as stupid as the NT perking Nr8 argument.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    If it's too easy for you, you do realise that you don't have to cast them?
    ....If you want challenge, don't cast these oh so overpowered debuffs & bingo, Challenge !

    Win-win.
    Thats like saying "lets give traders 2x 2000 AAO drains in PVM, it is a bit too much but some of the traders wont use it".
    --Clan "Howlin" Messiah



    Howlin banned indefinitely by Gorafk Reason: Clan "Howlin" Messiah

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyfunk View Post
    AB has a lowish break and doc pistols are pretty quick, so it's probably up quite a bit.
    Regardless, Malaise doesn't stack with UBT so in your dreaded crat/doc team, the crat's bringing less init debuffing (450+250+250+600) than the doc (1462+980 + occasionally 2569).

    As for OPed tool sets, I like that crats have been buffed enough that you can use them in place of a doc or an enfo for many things. Doing mitaar with a crat, a shade and some traders or vortexx with some advies and an FP doctor, or 12man with a fixer tanking is miles more fun than sitting spamming "LF doc/tank" for hours.

    Way I see it, nerf the init debuffs and there won't suddenly be rainbows and teamage for all. The minimal team elitists just sub in a second doctor for the crat. And the rest of us will still be in the same mess we are now.

    I've done 12man without a crat and I've done it without an enfo/soldier. Not managed it without a doctor yet though.
    A bit of a late answer, but anyhow ...
    Anatomic Blight has a chance to break on attack of 12%.

    A bit of simplified math to show that AB does break fast in a team setting:
    A team of 6, with 4 dualwielding and 2 singlewielding, will do approximately 4*45 + 2*30 = 240 hits per minute or approximately 4 hits per seconds. (and yes, not everyone will hit all the time, just like the doctor won't hit everytime either).

    The average amount of hits that is needed to break AB is: 50% = (100%-12%)^x (this is calculated by multiplying the chance that AB will not break on a single hit, which is 88%).

    So AB has a chance to break of more than 50% after 6 hits. In the above team of 6, AB will on average break before 1.5seconds after landing it have passed (this is not the average duration, but the median).

    This also ofcourse doesn't take into account that the in game procs are running on servers and that in AO funky things happen with those procs, but even with that, player experience has shown that AB still breaks very fast in a team.


    About crats adding less init debuffs to a team than a doctor because of ubt: Well, as has been mentioned before (not sure if it was in this thread though ), most endgame encounters are immune to ubt and have been for a long time now. Ubt could be debuffing 10k inits, but if the boss has 100% immunity against it, it won't do anything. The init debuffs that turn endgame bosses into pushovers, are still those of crats, not any other profession.

    The decision to have ubt 100% resisted on many bosses was made long ago to make boss encounters more difficult. What is pretty ironic is that while FC beefed up the permanent and unbreakable crat init debuffs from about 1000 to 2500+, FC at the same time also continued adding in new boss mobs that were 100% immune to ubt. There's an obvious flaw in their reasoning here


    About your opinion that bureaucrats shouldn't be nerfed, because then doctors would be the only whose pve toolset is far above that of anyone else. I absolutely cannot agree with this kind of reasoning. For one, it could then also be argued that doctors shouldn't be nerfed, because then crats would then have be the only prof with a vastly superior pve toolset. This kind of reasoning creates a catch 22 situation where nothing moves or happens and the 12 other professions will continue to be leagues behind, while crats and doctors continue to get teams on a whim (unless the other 12 all get boosted up to current the level of crats, which would kill any challenge to be had in pve - unless they ofcourse chose to not use your toolset ). I would rather see the absolutely OP toolsets brought down to a more sane level and the absolutely worthless pve professions brought closer to those with good toolsets, so everyone can get teams faster and it's not just the minimal team setups based on crats and/or doctors.

    12man or beast or any other endgame encounter can be done with a doctor and no crat, or a crat and no doctor, but with having either you set yourself up for a major/impossible challenge. It's true that a crat can make it possible to tank for professions who otherways can't tank, since their relatively lower hp is less of an issue with the mob hits being so spaced out. And being able to use evade tanks to tank with a crat (+ those crat aad buffs make a huge difference here, even though some crats claim that they are completely useless ), allows for even more damage mitigation and even less healing required. But why should the entire toolset that makes it possible for a semi-tank to tank an endgame encounter be completely concentrated in 1 profession? It could have come from a combination of several different profession who each add their contribution to the team, instead of the on/off switch that are crat init debuffs for pve challenges.
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 bureaucrat*: Starting 12man, need Enfo, Doc, Keeper, reflects."
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 doctor*: Looking for crat/keep/enf for 12m pst "
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 soldier*: still need doc/enf for 12 man. pst
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] LF enfo , crat , doc and soldier's for ipande / pst [220 doctor]"

  13. #73
    I don't think it' stupid at all, it's just the same as a doctor not spamming UBT to give himself something to heal. If you can't see that, that ain't my issue, i'm not the one whining about Crats debuffing abilities & the lack of challenge in PVM.
    One profession to RoO them all, one profession to proc stun them, one profession to calm them all and in the darkness Exp perk them!

    Crataiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution - 3rd AI 30 'Crat on RK 1 Setup
    Calms 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution
    Medicaiken 220/30/70 General - Primal Evolution Setup
    Newen 220/30/70 President - The Galactic Milieu
    Mettagirl 220/20/** General - Primal Evolution
    Krataiken 150/18/40 General - Primal Evolution Setup

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
    I don't think it' stupid at all, it's just the same as a doctor not spamming UBT to give himself something to heal. If you can't see that, that ain't my issue, i'm not the one whining about Crats debuffing abilities & the lack of challenge in PVM.
    If FC were to follow a reasoning as stupid as that, they might just as well give Blackmane's Stat Buffer to every profession with the message that the players can chose not to use it if they want some kind of challenge.
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 bureaucrat*: Starting 12man, need Enfo, Doc, Keeper, reflects."
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 doctor*: Looking for crat/keep/enf for 12m pst "
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] *220 soldier*: still need doc/enf for 12 man. pst
    "Neutnet relay: [PvM] LF enfo , crat , doc and soldier's for ipande / pst [220 doctor]"

  15. #75
    May the Sploitz be with u Ciex's Avatar
    We have an inflation of ub0rness as it is a 10 year old game. Pretty much everyone has to much ub0rness. Docs have to much healing, enfs have to much HP and tank ability, solds have to much reflects and AR, fixers run to fast, shades have to high alpha, advys have to much everything… That’s how it is. Crats make pvm way more easy, so do docs as healers, and enfs/solds as tanks. Instead of making mobs hit faster/harder new playfields should be like Mitaar, where raw power doesn’t mean much and some skill is required.
    Asasello, Sottcapo, Ciex, Rychu, Ciek, Zomowiec, Ciekafsky, Rysiek, Chinaski, Libertarian, Propertarian.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciekafsky View Post
    Instead of making mobs hit faster/harder new playfields should be like Mitaar, where raw power doesn’t mean much and some skill is required.
    Bump, we need more playfields that crats can solo.
    --Clan "Howlin" Messiah



    Howlin banned indefinitely by Gorafk Reason: Clan "Howlin" Messiah

  17. #77
    Funny story about Anatomic Blight. Most docs won't use it in team situations because it breaks way to fast and with the few hits the doc makes, it's even less likely to be running for a useful amount of time. In boss fights the doctor won't be spending his or her time shooting the target trying to get as many shots in as possible.. in fact many shots will miss due to a more support oriented setup that docs use for boss fights, or they won't even be fired in the first place because the doc is in cast animation for dots or interrupted from casting heals in the first place. Also Anatomic Blight does not only break on weapon hits but also on debuffs and on nano damage hits which are quite plentiful when spamming 3 dots... Docs don't run it in team scenarios and when we do.. it's not gonna do much.
    Still.. as far as I am concerned AB should be removed both for the retarted pvp effect as well as it's devastating effect in solo or 2-4 people teams. Same for some other debuff procs...


    The crat init debuff will prolly soon be collapsed in one or two lines. Good thing too. I'm hoping for some adjustments then that make both (if two) lines useable in regular pvm, but only one line for bosses as well as making the goddamn things outside-combat-removeable without waiting up to 6 minutes in pvp.
    Last edited by XenonDe; Jul 14th, 2010 at 17:20:50. Reason: typos
    Deadly Whisper - RK1
    too many alts for to little space

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by howlin2009 View Post
    Bump, we need more playfields that crats can solo.
    If you consider that method soloing, than yes, yes we can. But its a far cry from int debuff and tanking the mob because it wont happen.
    Hellrule 220/30/70 - Your future Crat Dictator
    Secretly Clan

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by howlin2009 View Post
    Bump, we need more playfields that crats can solo.
    Quit acting like a nab troll, you know perfectly well what he ment.
    You survived...You prevailed....Yet a bird's flight knows no end...
    Reality is a momentary dream but a dream is a reality for an eternity.


    Kawaii "Koizumi" Akira - 220/25/70 soon-to-be-Berserk MA (refreshing!)
    Deadalus "Yumeno" Proxy - 220/30/70 Former stunwhore
    One "Namichan" Piece - 220/30/68 Drainwhore
    Aj Ar "Spawara" Triplenab - 220/24/45 Nuke-Welder
    IOmnomnomjoor "Emohatetellz" - 2/0/0 TL5 killer in progress

    Quote Originally Posted by Quitter123 View Post
    How about this new nano for enfs, it takes random amount of nanoskills and nano to cast, when landed on random opponent it debuffs random weaponskill by random amount for an unspecified length of time.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by ragerayden View Post
    Yeah, just make every boss mob crat proof.
    The best solution, clearly!

    Prouver que j'ai raison serait accorder que je puisse avoir tort.

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